IL - Should woman be acountable for their children's death by abuse?

[imthemom]

I'm just very, very thankful that the laws were changed from when I was a kid to what they are now.

In the 70's a domestic call was not high on anyone's list. Oh the cops came but they didn't do anything. They said they couldn't.

My mama took many a beating from my daddy because she stepped in between our daddy and us. It was so bad at one time that my mama made my brother and I a shelter in the back of a closet with a fake wall so we could hide....but we still heard everything.

He was a control freak, writing down the mileage in the car, measuring her shorts to see how short they were. Timing her on trips to the grocery store, giving her a limited amount of money for shopping and keeping the receipts etc.

Things were so different for her generation and I truly think she had no clue how to get out of that situation for a long time. Abuse just wasn't talked about very much....and when it was it was in whispers. Everyone knew, they just didn't speak of it and g-d forbid they step in or inform. It just wasn't done.

My last memory of my father as that 'beast' was the day he was served with divorce papers. He stood out in the front yard in his under pants with a gun under his chin telling mama he was going to kill us, then her and then himself. Mama begged him to kill himself to put them both out of his misery.

She went to her very first job in 20 years the next day with two black eyes but our hell was over.

But now we have different laws and there is so much information about battered spousal abuse and child abuse that it boggles my mind that in this day and age it still happens.

I agree with the pp who stated it was a bunch of bunk that victims of abuse always abuse. That's so not true. I know I was desperate to break that chain and would do anything to protect and cherish my children like I wasn't. My brother chose to not have children at all because he was afraid he'd somehow snap and become like our daddy. Your past is a crutch and too many people use it as such to get out of something they know danged well is wrong. And they can't claim ignorance...ignorance is not knowing....stupidity on the other hand is a totally different concept. That's knowing and not caring.

That is so great your mom got away. My mom grew up in an abusive home and she was determined that her children would never live like that and have the happiest childhoods ever and we did! Her mother was a selfish alcoholic who married a SOB that beat them all and busted one of my mom's teeth out. He also raped her oldest sister when she was 12 and my grandma didn't believe her and so she ran away and well her life has been a mess ever since. All of my mom's siblings have dependence problems but her and one other sister. Out of 7 only 2 ended up without alcohol or drug problems. None of my cousins have been abused like they were but some have been pretty badly neglected and DCFS has been involved. My mom is also a foster parent. I think it is her way of therapy, seeing children get out of something she never did.

 

[feddup]

Another horrible case and now she has another!!

http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/112501/new_1125010001.shtml

little Bradley McGee....if only they'd have let his foster Mom have him, he'd probably be alive today

I DO believe mothers should be charged when they stand by and do nothing. The kids cant protect themselves, youre right, if you cant get help, do anything you can to keep your children safe.

 

[imthemom]

Another horrible case and now she has another!!

http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/112501/new_1125010001.shtml

little Bradley McGee....if only they'd have let his foster Mom have him, he'd probably be alive today

I DO believe mothers should be charged when they stand by and do nothing. The kids cant protect themselves, youre right, if you cant get help, do anything you can to keep your children safe.

Unfreaken believable, :banghead: thats all I can say.

 

[SadieMae]

Dear Lord...I pray for this baby. In Brady's case how in the H*LL could a mother stand by and watch!!!!! Either my husband or I would have died that night. When it comes to my children, I have one strong will to live for them. I am not putting women down who have been abused by their partners, but if a man ever treated me or my children like that, him going to sleep is his death sentence. I guess I just don't understand how their fear over rules protecting their children.

 

[feddup]

Dear Lord...I pray for this baby. In Brady's case how in the H*LL could a mother stand by and watch!!!!! Either my husband or I would have died that night. When it comes to my children, I have one strong will to live for them. I am not putting women down who have been abused by their partners, but if a man ever treated me or my children like that, him going to sleep is his death sentence. I guess I just don't understand how their fear over rules protecting their children.

Sadie, Im like you, HIS (boyfriends) head wouldve been in that toilet, I think I wouldve been charged with a homicide but my baby wouldve NEVER been subject to any abuse.
They shouldve tied her tubes before they let her out......dont you think? Now she has another one!! How could she. Shes a monster, sitting there smoking cig. while that monster boyfriend did that to an innocent 2 yr old This case was HUGE back in 1989 because Bradley had a wonderful foster Mum who wanted to adopt him but they gave them back to the Mother who abandoned him
Its sad how some kids dont even have a chance in life. I dont really buy the "I was so abused wife excuse" I'd fight for my kid anyway I could. I couldnt stand by while someone abused them, no way.

 

[zadari]

it breaks my heart when any baby/child is abused .this is so horrible that poor baby

 

[imthemom]

Sadie, Im like you, HIS (boyfriends) head wouldve been in that toilet, I think I wouldve been charged with a homicide but my baby wouldve NEVER been subject to any abuse.
They shouldve tied her tubes before they let her out......dont you think? Now she has another one!! How could she. Shes a monster, sitting there smoking cig. while that monster boyfriend did that to an innocent 2 yr old This case was HUGE back in 1989 because Bradley had a wonderful foster Mum who wanted to adopt him but they gave them back to the Mother who abandoned him
Its sad how some kids dont even have a chance in life. I dont really buy the "I was so abused wife excuse" I'd fight for my kid anyway I could. I couldnt stand by while someone abused them, no way.

Just to add to this she also helped beat him with the couch cushions until he collapsed. She didn't just stand by and watch like some of the other mothers, she actually participated in his murder, why is she even walking free?

 

[sherri79]

Just to add to this she also helped beat him with the couch cushions until he collapsed. She didn't just stand by and watch like some of the other mothers, she actually participated in his murder, why is she even walking free?

not only is she free but a judge this she will make a good mom now and gave her back the newest baby. after all classes can fix some1 who can do something like this to their child right?

Detective Schaill doesn't buy it.
''Sheryl and Tom went through all the parenting classes, the shrinks, in Florida, too,'' said Schaill, who traveled to Illinois to testify at Hardy's hearing. ''Then they butchered the baby.''

 

[crash676]

When I first read the title of the thread I thought for sure this is rhetorical question. Absolutely should a mother be prosected if she stands back and allows her child to be abused. There is no excuse for abuse ever. I have a wonderful friend for many years was beaten daily by her husband and would not leave and she would alwas say but he doesn't hurt the children it is only me. In May of 2006 he got into a verbal aletercation with their oldest son and the son stabbed him sixteen times. When arrested he stated it was once for every year he had watched his mom be abused. He is going to juvenile until he is 18 and the scum dad has since recovered and my friend is in another state. But how sad that it took his son to break up the abuse in the most violent way. I have learned by living with an abuser the hard way that ABUSE DOES NOT EQUATE LOVE!! I will teach every young lady I know this for the rest of my life. LOVE DOES NOT PHYSICALLY HURT!!! Those of you with daughters please teach them these valuable lessons so that they do not have to learn them the sad way so many of us did. (This has been a soapox post by crash sorry):blowkiss:

 

[*~Aimee~*]

Another horrible case and now she has another!!

http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/112501/new_1125010001.shtml

little Bradley McGee....if only they'd have let his foster Mom have him, he'd probably be alive today

I DO believe mothers should be charged when they stand by and do nothing. The kids cant protect themselves, youre right, if you cant get help, do anything you can to keep your children safe.

yes this is a very sad case. I grew-up with Sheryl.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

I don't feel a bit sorry for these women. They chose this, their children did not. I know they were trying to get this woman in Illinois freed. I hope she never gets out. I would let someone beat me to death before I would let them
harm my child and in such a horrible way!!

I don't think any woman ever deliberately chooses to be mistreated, beaten, repeatedly humiliated and abused by her significant other. No one chooses that.

It's not like such situations happen overnight. It's usually a pattern of gradually increasing abuse, then abject apologies, then abuse, etc. It goes from shouting to a push, a slap, shaking, a punch.

Women who are abused don't have many options, usually. There's not a lot of help for them out there. I've talked to a lot of women who were convinced that they were safer if they stayed because if their abusive partner found out they were thinking of escape, they'd be killed.

Statistically, they are exactly right. The most high risk period in an abusive relationship are the three months before the victim gets out and the six months after they escape. Too many women are correct in their intuition: they make plans to get out or they actually do make it out and they are killed by the abuser.

Sure, there are shelters. Some shelters are great. Some are hellholes, where staff prey on the clients--imagine escaping from an abusive relationship only to discover that the people who said they'd help you are just as abusive! Some shelters have secret locations and tight security. Other shelters, not so much.

Many shelters have unrealistic time limits of two to three weeks. If a woman escapes from an abuser, she usually escapes with little more than a few changes of clothes. If she has a job, she may be afraid to show up because her abuser knows where she worked. If she didn't have a job, then how long does it take to earn the money for an apartment? In most areas, that's the first and last months' up front plus a security deposit, usually totalling three months' rent.

If a woman can find an apartment for rent for the recommended percentage of her monthly income, that's no more than 25%. A lot of times, though, it's much more than that. Even at 25%, that's three weeks' wages. If rents in her area are high, the cheapest apartments may be anywhere from 50% to 75% of what a low wage worker makes.

If she qualifies for subsidised housing, in most places she goes on a waiting list. In the nearest town to me, the waiting list is over five years long. Yes, I mean more than 60 months. Then she has to find a landlord willing to take a housing voucher, which not all landlords are willing to do.

Even if she can overcome the economic trap, it's likely she's called the police on more than one occasion for emergency protection... and discovered that she didn't get much help or respect.

The abuser, with the complicity of society in general and the police, effectively puts the victim in a trap. Then a parent's worst nightmare happens: her child is killed by the abuser.

And the nightmare just goes on and on.

How is this merciful? How is this in any sense true justice?

 

[MeoW333]

Something similiar happened to my sister, a cop. She was called about a man getting the crap beat out of outside a 7-11. When she got there she was arresting the guys attacking the man, when bystanders kept telling her she's arresting the wrong ones! The men jumped this guy because they saw him kicking and slapping a 4 year old boy (his son). She found out this child had a long history with CPS. The father was ordered out of the house, guess what....druggie mother moved to the house ACROSS the street where he moved and stayed with her husband! My sister was livid!!!! LOL...I was there when she cussed out the social worker!!! She kept in touch with Miguel and sort of adopted him. Got him school clothes and helped him with homework, took him food, etc. He stayed with her frequently. When things were bad at home he called her, she would pick him up. She checked on him every day on her shift & she still has the pictures he drew for her when he was a boy in her office. His mother never cared where he was. Forward 20 years later...he's a cop now! So sometimes, even if the system fails....it only takes one of us to save a child.

That is such a beautiful story! Not only did your sister help him, she also inspired him to become a cop, most likely saving him from becoming a criminal if he didn't have her in his life. Sometimes it is such a fine line, yet with support, it changes one's life.

 

[StealthTheory]

I think we need to keep in mind that courts will often allow father's to interact with their kids even if they've been charged with abusing their spouses. I've also seen people here accuse mother's of neglect when after a divorce the father hurts the child because she LET them be alone with the kids. Situations like that are often court ordered and there isn't much the mother can do besides kidnap their own children which isn't a good solution either and will usually result with the mother serving time and the father getting full custody.
But yes, if the mom knows the father is abusive and decides to let things continue as they are without attempting to get help or stop it, then yes, they should be charged as well.

 

[wildTrose]

I think yes the women are responsible to some degree...I think each case should be deteremined on a case by case decision on if they should serve prison time.
Not every woman can leave a situation, no matter how much she wants to, then you have the ones who can leave and do but then they return time and time again,
Everyone says, Ill do anything to protect my child....and we mean it, but until things happen to you, change you, you really dont know if you will when something does happen
I think some women are like hostages, they form this dependency on their captors (abusive husbands)
Each case does need to be scrutinized before deciding on how to punish the women. They do need some type of punishment but not every woman deserves to be in jail for 30 some years when they themselves did not kill the child

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

I think yes the women are responsible to some degree...I think each case should be deteremined on a case by case decision on if they should serve prison time.
Not every woman can leave a situation, no matter how much she wants to, then you have the ones who can leave and do but then they return time and time again,
Everyone says, Ill do anything to protect my child....and we mean it, but until things happen to you, change you, you really dont know if you will when something does happen
I think some women are like hostages, they form this dependency on their captors (abusive husbands)
Each case does need to be scrutinized before deciding on how to punish the women. They do need some type of punishment but not every woman deserves to be in jail for 30 some years when they themselves did not kill the child

I agree 100% with your comments! I couldn't have said it better. I feel that 30 years in jail is too much when they didn't commit the crime. I don't think the women should have greater sentences than the people that commit the crimes.

 

[pixies]

I do judge a mother who chooses to allow her child to be abused. Leaving can be no harder than staying and having your precious child hurt. I just cannot equate the same victimhood of an adult in an abusive relationship of thier choosing with an innocent child who needs protection from such abuse.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

That says it all. If you want to stay and be a punching bag for a loser, go ahead, I do not care but if you allow your child to be hurt, then you go to jail right along with the .

WOMEN MUST PROTECT THEIR CHILDREN AT ALL COST.

 

[imthemom]

I don't think any woman ever deliberately chooses to be mistreated, beaten, repeatedly humiliated and abused by her significant other. No one chooses that.

It's not like such situations happen overnight. It's usually a pattern of gradually increasing abuse, then abject apologies, then abuse, etc. It goes from shouting to a push, a slap, shaking, a punch.

Women who are abused don't have many options, usually. There's not a lot of help for them out there. I've talked to a lot of women who were convinced that they were safer if they stayed because if their abusive partner found out they were thinking of escape, they'd be killed.

Statistically, they are exactly right. The most high risk period in an abusive relationship are the three months before the victim gets out and the six months after they escape. Too many women are correct in their intuition: they make plans to get out or they actually do make it out and they are killed by the abuser.

Sure, there are shelters. Some shelters are great. Some are hellholes, where staff prey on the clients--imagine escaping from an abusive relationship only to discover that the people who said they'd help you are just as abusive! Some shelters have secret locations and tight security. Other shelters, not so much.

Many shelters have unrealistic time limits of two to three weeks. If a woman escapes from an abuser, she usually escapes with little more than a few changes of clothes. If she has a job, she may be afraid to show up because her abuser knows where she worked. If she didn't have a job, then how long does it take to earn the money for an apartment? In most areas, that's the first and last months' up front plus a security deposit, usually totalling three months' rent.

If a woman can find an apartment for rent for the recommended percentage of her monthly income, that's no more than 25%. A lot of times, though, it's much more than that. Even at 25%, that's three weeks' wages. If rents in her area are high, the cheapest apartments may be anywhere from 50% to 75% of what a low wage worker makes.

If she qualifies for subsidised housing, in most places she goes on a waiting list. In the nearest town to me, the waiting list is over five years long. Yes, I mean more than 60 months. Then she has to find a landlord willing to take a housing voucher, which not all landlords are willing to do.

Even if she can overcome the economic trap, it's likely she's called the police on more than one occasion for emergency protection... and discovered that she didn't get much help or respect.

The abuser, with the complicity of society in general and the police, effectively puts the victim in a trap. Then a parent's worst nightmare happens: her child is killed by the abuser.

And the nightmare just goes on and on.

How is this merciful? How is this in any sense true justice?

I do see your point, really I do but I still can't ever imagine letting my child be hurt by someone. If a woman wants to stay and be abused who has no children that is her choice but women who have children have to do what is best for the child. The first time that a man ever laid a hand on one of mine would be the last time he would ever see us. I don't care if I had to stay in a shelter at least my children would be safe from harm. If he came to kill me, I would gladlly die than let my children be abused or murdered. Some may not think like this and yes a case by case review has to be done but women who watched and knew of the abuse definitely should be punished right along with the abuser/murder, IMO.

 

[mysteriew]

After being beaten for years the victim often sees the abuser as all powerful. And to some extent they may be right. If the cops get called, he is given a "talking to" and threats about what will happen if they have to come back. Or he is told to leave for the night. If by some odd chance charges are filed, he is out within hours and back at the home and usually gets no more than a fine. And of course that is her fault and she will eventually have to pay for that. He is strong, it hurts when he hits, she is afraid and fears he could kill.

He uses constant emotional abuse, she is crazy, stupid, lazy, ugly, fat and completely unable to exist unless he provides for her. It is all her fault. In time she begins to believe him. Even if she doesn't believe him, she fears that he will be able to convince the courts of that- then he would be alone with the kids. Constant abuse and control often results in depression of the victim, and she feels totally ineffective, worthless, and helpless.

Common threats in a dv situation. If she leaves, he will hunt her down no matter where she goes. He will hunt her down and take the kids from her. He will hunt her down and the courts will give him the kids. He will hunt her down and kill her and the kids. He will hunt her down and kill himself, her and the kids. He will hunt her down and kill her, the kids and anyone who helped her. He threatens to destroy everything and everyone that she loves.

She could go to a shelter. Shelters are usually small, frequently full and most have limits on the time a person can spend there. So what happens if she goes and can't stay? What happens when he does find her?

Leaving is the most dangerous time for an abused family. Where before he would harm, if there is an attempt to leave that is when he is most likely to kill. IOW her fears and instincts are true.

So I am conflicted. I agree, no mother should stand by while her child is beaten. Yes, if she is an effective parent she could tie him up with LE, children's services, and the courts. But if the abuse has gone on for years and/or is severe enough, she is unable to be an effective parent without lots of support. Support she is usually afraid to ask for and that may or may not be there for her. Or she could prevent the beating and they could all end up dead.

Then again there are other mothers who believe the child deserves to be beaten, who will actively participate or give their own beatings. Or who may incite the child's beating so that she herself won't get beat.