IL IL - The Unidentified Victims of John Wayne Gacy

[Cubby]

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/4182dmmo.html

Thoughts on the above as a possible? He fits with the ht range and the doenetwork page states he was last seen leaving with someone with IL plates.

 

[carbuff]

He looks like this one: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/954umil.html

* Estimated age: 15-17 years old -- Rickey is 18
* Approximate Height and Weight: 5'7" - 5'11" -- Rickey is 5'7"

 

[Cubby]

No call back from Cook County ME to see if there is a list of rule outs for these 8 UID's. Will try contacting them again next week - hopefully I can get a live person on the phone rather than a voice mail.

 

[CarlK90245]

I think Rickey Enochs is a good possible for 954UMIL. I had Rickey set aside because he reminded me of this guy found in Long Beach, CA.

http://doenetwork.org/cases/1392umca.html

WARNING - Postmortem photo at link.
http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/45964/2625504000045078242S600x600Q85.jpg

But I was convinced that they are not the same person. Rickey makes much more sense as a possible Gacy victim.

 

[Cubby]

I'm not great at the maps so trying this link.
I'm sure someone else can do a much better map.

Ricky went missing from Monroe City, MO. I decided to see where Monroe City is in comparison to Illinois. Not far at all. Semi close to the IL/MO border. Guestimate 50 miles west of the IL border and almost straight west of Springfield which is central IL.
Not sure if it means anything, but it is also not far from Quincy, IL - which many from the Chicago area would know if they are Catholic, because there is a Catholic Univ in Quincy. (Just a little added info...)

I can easily see this drive and would guestimate it to be about 4 hours from Chicago. Maybe a little less....

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=Monroe%20City%2C%20MO&rlz=1R2ADRA_enUS353&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

I wish we had a better idea of where Gacy's named victims were from.
It might help us with looking at John Does.

When I call to see if there is a ruled out list I will ask if Ricky has been compared.
If not I will put the info together to submit.

Do we know if there are dentals and DNA for Ricky?

 

[CarlK90245]

I'm not great at the maps so trying this link.
I'm sure someone else can do a much better map.

Ricky went missing from Monroe City, MO. ...

Here's the map between Monroe MO and Gacy's home in Norwood Park Township.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...078,-88.857422&spn=9.160791,16.743164&t=h&z=6

I decided to see where Monroe City is in comparison to Illinois. Not far at all. Semi close to the IL/MO border. Guestimate 50 miles west of the IL border and almost straight west of Springfield which is central IL. ...

... I can easily see this drive and would guestimate it to be about 4 hours from Chicago. Maybe a little less....

The google maps path indicates 440 miles from Monroe to his Chicago home (a little over 7 hours). However, from what I've read, he is originally from Springfield, so if he maintained contacts there, that may have taken him into an area where he may have crossed paths with Enochs.

I wish we had a better idea of where Gacy's named victims were from.

It might help us with looking at John Does.

Gacy's first victim, Timothy McCoy (15) was from Nebraska. He was picked up by Gacy in 1972 at a Chicago Greyhound bus station traveling from Michigan to Omaha. However, it appears that most of his other known victims were local boys from the Chicago area.

Do we know if there are dentals and DNA for Ricky?

I can't find anything. I don't see his case in NamUs or NCMEC, and DoeNet doesn't indicate anything about identifiers.

 

[Cubby]

440 miles and a little over 7 hours. Boy was I off! I looked at the map and Monroe looks so much closer than St. Louis...

I was 10-12 in the mid 70's. My recollections of Gacy are vague. Sub Contractor who preyed upon teenage boys looking for spending cash to work on their cars- from memory and almost no research on Gacy. I didn't remember he was from Springfield.

I've only found the Doenetwork info, which is the same for each UID. I should look up the street address for the Cook Cty ME. I have to take someone to 'hospital row' near UIC for some routine medical care and the hours I have to wait, if the ME office is not too far.... it may be worth a walk in.

Thinking outloud.....

 

[carbuff]

So did anybody ever submit Rickey Enochs for 954UMIL?

 

[jwalk]

It's a shame that these men are still unidentified, especially in this famous case. I grew up on the north side of Chicago and heard tales from a couple of men that Gacy tried to pick up at the Fat Black Pussycat Bar and P.J.'s disco. He would tell them he was a contractor looking for workers. If its true, they declined and it saved their lives. I thought of Rickey Enochs, too after reading he left with someone with Illinois plates. Also, I thought maybe Minnesotans Chris Harold Freeman and Geno Ranelli from Doe network might have crossed paths with this killer clown. I have seen the reconstructed busts on Americas Most Wanted and they do look alike. Any list of rule-outs?

 

[Cubby]

So did anybody ever submit Rickey Enochs for 954UMIL?

Despite making several calls and leaving several messages for the Cook Cty ME I never was able to make contact. WS member masnitram has made contact with someone in Cook Cty LE or ME regarding an entirely different UID case. I will send masnitram a pm with the link to this thread. Hopefully he can submit Rickey Enochs as a possible match and see if we can get a list of rule outs for those already compared to the remaining Gacy unidentifieds.

hth

eta: to add the link to Rickey's doenetwork case file again.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/4182dmmo.html

 

[Cubby]

It's a shame that these men are still unidentified, especially in this famous case. I grew up on the north side of Chicago and heard tales from a couple of men that Gacy tried to pick up at the Fat Black Pussycat Bar and P.J.'s disco. He would tell them he was a contractor looking for workers. If its true, they declined and it saved their lives. I thought of Rickey Enochs, too after reading he left with someone with Illinois plates. Also, I thought maybe Minnesotans Chris Harold Freeman and Geno Ranelli from Doe network might have crossed paths with this killer clown. I have seen the reconstructed busts on Americas Most Wanted and they do look alike. Any list of rule-outs?

adding the links for Chris Harold Freeman and Geno Ranelli to discuss as possible matches for the remaining Gacy UID's.

Chris Harold Freeman:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/754dmmn.html


I don't see a case file for Geno Ranelli at Doenetwork. Can anyone find a case file for him anywhere?

tia

 

[masnitram]

Geno Ranelli was on DoeNetwork at one time...or so I thought? I did find his profile on Charley...

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/ranelli_geno.html

Cubby, I did get your PM and will send Rickey Lee Enochs to my contact in Cook County (LE). From what I recall from my last conversation with Cook County LE, he too was looking for the rule-out list regarding the unidentified Gacy victims...I will see where that stands. I'll include Chris Freeman and Geno Ranelli as well.

 

[tlcya]

ugggh there's a case I hadn't thought of in forever.

JWG actually lived in my town for a bit and was sort of friends with my natural father *shudder*

I had no idea there were still victims unidentified and parents still wondering what became of their sons in this one.

 

[masnitram]

Here is a reply from my contact in Cook County. Rather disappointing honestly...not his fault, I hope you understand. He has helped me out on many cases ; even those way outside of his jurisdiction.


"Greetings.

I have learned that the Cook County Medical Examiners Office no longer has anyone assigned to the JWG John DOES, and from off the record conversations I have had with some past staff members, the MEdical Examiners Office has no interest in pursuing any leads at this time.

I could not get a definitive response of whether any DNA samples were stored (DNA was unheard of back then), but dental records do exist for each on the remaining Victims. The Dental records were eventually uploaded to the National Unidentified Missing and Body Parts Database.

The Chicago Police Detectives who where involved with JWG investigation are both deceased.

At this point, the only way to conclusively identified the remaining Victims is through the dentals or through DNA, which is unlikely. Ultimately it is up to each of the Law Enforcement Agencies that have any Missing Persons Investigations to insure that the dental records of their respective Missing Persons cases are entered into the NCIC Database.

Even though the circumstances may suggest that a Missing Person may have been involved with JWG, the practicality of any follow-up investigation can only be determined if either Dentals or DNA are available. Since JWG has been executed, it is unlikely that any Law Enforcement Agency would initiate any investigation to prove a JWG connection to a particular Missing Person Case.

I will keep my ears open if anything of substance can assist you in these JWG cases in the future.

Good luck!"

 

[Cubby]

From an LE perspective I understand. Once a perp is deceased there isn't a whole lot of interest in nailing that person for further crimes which would lead me to believe Chicago ME isn't going to spend a whole lot of time. I'm appreciative of his reply and honesty. It basically lets us know if we find any possible matches it's best to pursue them on the LE of the missing persons case side, to at least pursue the dental identifiers. Cook may be more apt to pursue DNA if it is available only if a strong possible match is presented. This also tells me why Cook Cty ME never returned my calls last summer. It's still good info mas' because it gives us the heads up on which way to approach this with any possible matches.

thank you!

 

[masnitram]

From an LE perspective I understand. Once a perp is deceased there isn't a whole lot of interest in nailing that person for further crimes which would lead me to believe Chicago ME isn't going to spend a whole lot of time. I'm appreciative of his reply and honesty. It basically lets us know if we find any possible matches it's best to pursue them on the LE of the missing persons case side, to at least pursue the dental identifiers. Cook may be more apt to pursue DNA if it is available only if a strong possible match is presented. This also tells me why Cook Cty ME never returned my calls last summer. It's still good info mas' because it gives us the heads up on which way to approach this with any possible matches.

thank you!

You're welcome :rocker:

Just to clarify; I wasn't disappointed in the sense that I felt Cook Co. LE wasn't doing enough or that they didn't/don't care. I'm disappointed that the remaining UID's identities hang on dental records; I'm sure we've all seen plenty of inaccuracies by now regarding dentals.

Carry on! :twocents:

 

[tlcya]

Just an FYI, JWG was not from Springfield, IL he was originally from Chicago. Shortly after he graduated from Northwester Business College he worked in mngmt for a shoe company. While employed with them he was transferred to Springfield in 1964. It was here he met his wife and was vice president of the local chapter of Jaycees by 1965. He lived here til 1967 when he and Marilyn moved to Iowa.

 

[Cubby]

when did he move back to the chicago area? Do we have a time line from when he moved to Iowa and where in IA (city wise). It might help to know more about the area's he was familiar with when looking up possible matches to missing persons - if we can tie Gacy knowing certain area's......

tia

 

[tlcya]

June 19 1970 he arrived back in Chicago after serving prison time in Iowa

pretty good timeline and some background on him, his marriage and his moves

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wayne_Gacy

 

[jwalk]

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/john-wayne-gacy-house-118135019.html