Found Deceased IL - Vanessa Ceja Ramirez, 22, murdered, Midlothian, 2 Nov 2020

[Userid]

There are comments on the social media postings of multiple news outlets that featured this case from family members that state who the other person on the walk was.

And I do think, respectfully, that the news media has reported some confusing facts about where she was last seen and where her body was found. Some of these earliest articles have since been updated but at least one originally said her body was found in "Bremen Wood," which evidently doesn't exist.

In another example of muddled reporting, in the latest article about the $7,500 reward, the article reports that her phone pinged at Oak Forest Apartments but that's not a real place either...it's actually the Manchester Court Apartments that are associated with that address.

However, just because the reporting to the public is wrong doesn't mean that LE doesn't know a full set of facts. If they indeed removed evidence from an apartment near the last ping of her phone I think that's a really encouraging sign.

I don't have social media. Feel free to elaborate.

Right, I was just trying to clear up the confusion. All the articles I've seen, say the same thing, which makes sense: she was last seen at Bremen Grove, which was 4 miles west of where her body was found.

 

[Yemelyan]

I don't have social media. Feel free to elaborate.

It will just get deleted. It's allowed under TOS to point people to the place on social media where the comments can be found, against it to say exactly what they were as they could be rumor.

However, I will say that the purported family members commenting have names that check out and the information about that other person present on the hike is all consistent.

 

[Userid]

Also, the thing that people need to realize about police, is that they will not announce everything they know about the case publicly. And this is just speculation, but I'd also say that police might even skew certain elements publicly in order to throw off or confuse the killer(s). For example, the police said her phone pinged at 147th and Central, but immediately said that "they found nothing." Why would they publicly dismiss this so fast? I think it was because they were watching the location and wanted to see how the killer(s) would respond. They wanted to killer(s) to believe that they weren't being watched and that he/they had nothing to worry about. Again, just speculation.

 

[Userid]

It will just get deleted. It's allowed under TOS to point people to the place on social media where the comments can be found, against it to say exactly what they were as they could be rumor.

However, I will say that the purported family members commenting have names that check out and the information about that other person present on the hike is all consistent.

Um, okay. You can't say their background at least? "Supposed friend of the victim," "Supposed friend of the mother," etc.

Where can it be found, Facebook?

 

[Yemelyan]

Um, okay. You can't say their background at least? "Supposed friend of the victim," "Supposed friend of the mother," etc.

Where can it be found, Facebook?

I don't make the rules here, just trying to abide by them. They are the way they are for a liability reason, I assume.

Check out the fb page of any large Chicago news station that covered this crime and you should find what you're looking for in the comments.

 

[Allynator]

I'm hoping LE found some DNA. Wondering if as someone mentioned earlier the perp may have set her on fire to destroy evidence.

 

[Userid]

I'm hoping LE found some DNA. Wondering if as someone mentioned earlier the perp may have set her on fire to destroy evidence.

Yes, I did see that reported in some places.

I really hope that cell phone ping at that apartment complex is more relevant than the police are letting on.

I also read that police had collected bags of evidence from that same apartment complex recently.

 

[Tealgrove]

This is a horrific crime. I think resolution is not far off.

MOO

 

[Yemelyan]

I feel like you are right, @Tealgrove.

I found an informative video made by Raul Montes, who is one of the community organizers who was assisting Vanessa's family with the search and who is organizing the award for information leading to the arrest of her murderer (s).

Raul Roberto Montes

Highlights of what he had to say:

The award is up to $9,000 now.

He shows the general location where Vanessa's body was found. According to him, it was hidden just off the Tinley Creek path in Midlothian Meadows, directly across from the Bremen High School. I'll attach a map that shows exactly where he was standing when he made the video. He was in the grassy, open area between the reserve's parking lot and Pulaski Rd., directly across the street to from the high school. This matches what news articles have said about the family getting ready to search but rushing to the location of 15300 Pulaski Rd. when they heard that a body had been found.

He also says that there are encampments of people living within Midlothian Meadows reserve.

He is petitioning local authorities to install security cameras in the parks.

 

[oviedo]

I feel like you are right, @Tealgrove.

I found an informative video made by Raul Montes, who is one of the community organizers who was assisting Vanessa's family with the search and who is organizing the award for information leading to the arrest of her murderer (s).

Raul Roberto Montes

Highlights of what he had to say:

The award is up to $9,000 now.

He shows the general location where Vanessa's body was found. According to him, it was hidden just off the Tinley Creek path in Midlothian Meadows, directly across from the Bremen High School. I'll attach a map that shows exactly where he was standing when he made the video. He was in the grassy, open area between the reserve's parking lot and Pulaski Rd., directly across the street to from the high school. This matches what news articles have said about the family getting ready to search but rushing to the location of 15300 Pulaski Rd. when they heard that a body had been found.

He is petitioning local authorities to install security cameras in the parks.

I wonder if the high school has security cameras?

 

[Yemelyan]

Here's a rough map with the three main locations of interest.

The red pin is the general area where her body was found.

The top blue pin (farthest north) is the Manchester Court Apartments where the phone last pinged. We know police canvassed here and neighbors report evidence was removed from at least one apartment.

The westernmost blue pin is Bremen Grove where Vanessa was last seen. It is part of the Tinley Creek trail system and there is a dog park there.

 

[Yemelyan]

If nothing else the map highlights two things for me:

1. The distances are far enough apart that IMO a vehicle was involved in at least part of this crime. Parking lots are right next to where she disappeared and where her body was found. And if this speculation is right, that's a good thing because a vehicle would be yet another point where some type of forensic evidence could be represented/recovered to prove what happened.

2. The offender is likely extremely familiar with the Tinley Creek park system. He's not a transient passing through town IMO. He knows both locations within the park system very well and how to operate in them.

 

[Userid]

What's interesting is, if you follow the Tinley Creek path north, it leads straight to another apartment complex at 150th and Pulaski. In addition to the other apartment complex at 147 and Central, I would focus on this other complex as well if I were the police.

(Not sure why there is a dark box on the location, but you can still see it)

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

I am hoping that police are cross referencing individuals who live at the 147th complex now, but who lived at this complex at 150th in the past. I am guessing that the killer had to have familiarity with this area.

 

[Userid]

What's really odd about where she was last seen is that, if she "turned around" at Bremen Grove, it would have been an even longer route for her to get back to Midlothian Meadows -- unless the group entered Bremen Grove from 159th, and VCR turned around to travel east on 159th back to Midlothian Meadows, while the mother and friend traveled southeast around the gold course. For me, this is the only logical explanation for VCR to "turn around."

She didn't want to walk all the way around the George Dune National Golf Course, whereas the other two did want to continue. This makes sense because, it was as if VCR didn't want to start an entire new "area" -- they had already walked Midlothian Meadows, and now the mother and friend wanted to enter a new area, whereas VCR didn't. Bremen Grove is stationed right at the entrance of this new area.

The blue dotted route in the map/link below is the path I believe the group (all 3) took out of Midlothian Meadows to Bremen Grove. VCR would have traveled this same route when she "turned around" and separated from the group, whereas the mother and friend followed the green trail that snakes around the gold course and up north to Central Avenue. The "Information" marker in the map signifies Bremen Grove vicinity: خرائط ‪Google
‬‏‏

 

[Yemelyan]

What's really odd about where she was last seen is that, if she "turned around" at Bremen Grove, it would have been an even longer route for her to get back to Midlothian Meadows -- unless the group entered Bremen Grove from 159th, and VCR turned around to travel east on 159th back to Midlothian Meadows, while the mother and friend traveled southeast around the gold course. For me, this is the only logical explanation for VCR to "turn around."

She didn't want to walk all the way around the George Dune National Golf Course, whereas the other two did want to continue. This makes sense because, it was as if VCR didn't want to start an entire new "area" -- they had already walked Midlothian Meadows, and now the mother and friend wanted to enter a new area, whereas VCR didn't. Bremen Grove is stationed right at the entrance of this new area.

The blue dotted route in the map/link below is the path I believe the group (all 3) took out of Midlothian Meadows to Bremen Grove. VCR would have traveled this same route when she "turned around" and separated from the group, whereas the mother and friend followed the green trail that snakes around the gold course and up north to Central Avenue. The "Information" marker in the map signifies Bremen Grove vicinity: خرائط ‪Google
‬‏‏

Possibly she never made it back to Midlothian Meadows, maybe she never even made it out of the Bremen Grove parking lot. It looks like there is a bathroom facility etc right there, she could have been taken from there while out of sight of her family who were further into this section of the park.

 

[K9Enzo]

What's really odd about where she was last seen is that, if she "turned around" at Bremen Grove, it would have been an even longer route for her to get back to Midlothian Meadows -- unless the group entered Bremen Grove from 159th, and VCR turned around to travel east on 159th back to Midlothian Meadows, while the mother and friend traveled southeast around the gold course. For me, this is the only logical explanation for VCR to "turn around."

She didn't want to walk all the way around the George Dune National Golf Course, whereas the other two did want to continue. This makes sense because, it was as if VCR didn't want to start an entire new "area" -- they had already walked Midlothian Meadows, and now the mother and friend wanted to enter a new area, whereas VCR didn't. Bremen Grove is stationed right at the entrance of this new area.

The blue dotted route in the map/link below is the path I believe the group (all 3) took out of Midlothian Meadows to Bremen Grove. VCR would have traveled this same route when she "turned around" and separated from the group, whereas the mother and friend followed the green trail that snakes around the gold course and up north to Central Avenue. The "Information" marker in the map signifies Bremen Grove vicinity:

خرائط ‪Google
‬‏‏

How long would you estimate it would take an averaged paced walker (she was probably faster) to travel back to the vehicle from the theory you presented?

I'm trying to get a feel for distance and how long she could have been walking alone. I also don't think we have any witness reports from MSM of others on the trail/path that day during the same time. IMO

 

[Userid]

How long would you estimate it would take an averaged paced walker (she was probably faster) to travel back to the vehicle from the theory you presented?

I'm trying to get a feel for distance and how long she could have been walking alone. I also don't think we have any witness reports from MSM of others on the trail/path that day during the same time. IMO

I've been trying to figure this out myself. It depends on where they parked exactly, as that lot in Midlothian Meadows is very long, but this is the best estimate I have (going by google maps).

I put the car at the middle of the lot in the first map, but if you put the car on either side of the lot, it's 4 miles instead of 3.6. So basically, we're talking a walk of about 3.5 to 4 miles, and about a time of 1 hour 15 mins to 1 hour 20 mins (maybe 1 hour 30 mins) one way to Bremen Grove.

3.5 miles is a decent walk. A 5K marathon is 3.3 miles, for example. VCR was in good shape but I can see that being tiring for a person her age who doesn't necessarily walk/exercise a lot.

So, I can see how she got tired after about 1 hour 20 minutes (at least, maybe more, depending on pace of the group) of walking. I can only double that and say that it would probably take approximately 2 and a half to 3 hours round trip for her to walk back to her car, assuming she made it there.

If the car was at the center point of the parking lot, 3.5 miles, 7 miles round trip:
خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

If the car was further away from the center point, in either direction, it was be 4 miles, 8 round trip:
خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏
خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

 

[Yemelyan]

I just remembered that when LE used dogs to track her scent, they supposedly got a trail for her that ended at the far southeast corner of Midlothian Meadows. How does this fit in with where her body was discovered (which is not at all close to that spot), I wonder?

We also know that family members searching for her found pieces of her clothing while she was yet missing. Parts of her clothing being scattered far from her would, I imagine, have to be taken into account as far as how the dogs were able to track her scent.

 

[Userid]

I just remembered that when LE used dogs to track her scent, they supposedly got a trail for her that ended at the far southeast corner of Midlothian Meadows. How does this fit in with where her body was discovered (which is not at all close to that spot), I wonder?

We also know that family members searching for her found pieces of her clothing while she was yet missing. Parts of her clothing being scattered far from her would, I imagine, have to be taken into account as far as how the dogs were able to track her scent.

If true, then the car would have to be parked here (see map below). As you can see, the Tinley Creek path does extend to the southeast corner. I'm very curious to know where the dogs lost the scent -- did they lose it going north, or west? If they lost it going west, that would not have helped search efforts, as that would have been the way the group left the car initially. Unless they all traveled north initially and walked the majority of Tinley Creek, but not its entirety, within Midlothian Meadows.

Map: خرائط ‪Google

The fact the dogs noticed her scent here is critical, because if the group headed north on Tinley Creek trail upon arrival, the dogs prove that she was alone and made it very close to the car when she was alone -- since it would have been illogical for the group to walk that southeast part in the direction they were heading; they would have just followed the path west to 159th and Cicero, bypassing the southeast portion of the trail. However, if the group headed south upon arrival, then the scent is irrelevant. I tend to believe they all headed south initially, but that's pure speculation on my part. If they headed north, that would have been a very long walk -- close to 6 miles one way to Bremen Grove, not including the addition extra mile(s) the mother and the friend walked.

 

[Yemelyan]

I'm trying to get a feel for distance and how long she could have been walking alone. I also don't think we have any witness reports from MSM of others on the trail/path that day during the same time. IMO

Respectfully snipped to address just this last part - If she walked basically all the way back to Midlothian Meadows before encountering her attacker, she would have been walking along regular streets for part of the way, not just park trails. She would have passed gas stations and medical facilities among other establishments in broad daylight. I'd hope that she might have been captured by cctv along that route to help cement the timeline of this crime.