GUILTY IL - Zachary Irvin, 22, found dismembered, East St Louis, 20 June 2010

[Missizzy]

Open until 3 am. 1311 Washington:

http://www.albinoalleycat.com/flash/

There's got to be some street traffic from the let out of these shows.

 

[Missizzy]

Concerning the comments by Duncan, our new poster....well, we sure as heck care!! One of the things that I love about WS is that all angles can be looked at without judging the victim.

I surely do not want to be disrespectful of Zachary's memory by bringing his sexual orientation into question but I think you bring up a valid point. But surely there are far safer and young person friendly gay clubs and bars than in this area of East St. Louis. I have a hard time believing that a young man would feel that he needed to resort to the scariest and most harrowing place to go to meet a guy friend.

I am not popular for this but I have to wonder if Zachary had learned of Iagulli's interest in Satanism and set out on a quest to convince him that it was evil. I keep going back to the intensity of the church in St. Elmo. If anyone doubts this, listen to some of the sermons. It's really remarkable how many times the words Satan, demons, hell, and fire come up. Maybe Zachary felt called to walk into the fire and save some souls.

I hope if his family members read here, that they will contact their legislators and crime victim advocacy groups and dig far deeper. There's a story here that someone does not want told.

 

[Belinda]

The thing I keep wondering is if the warehouse was a homeless encampment, where were the rest of the campers when this murder was going on? Did they just mind their own business? Surely, there have to be witnesses. It makes no sense otherwise. Someone has to know what happened and why it happened. I can't believe that for that space of time, everybody suddenly disappeared. Something is very wrong here. There are huge missing pieces of this puzzle and no one (except us) is looking for them.

If this is a satanic thing, were they part of a broader group of satanists? Where are they and is it likely to happen again? I am very troubled by the lack of insight LE has about this case.

Why are these guys pleading guilty immediately? I have literally never heard of an attorney advocating such a thing. Are they pleading against legal advice? Why? I don't actually think I have heard of a murder suspect pleading guilty at the outset. I find this very bizarre. It bothers me more than anything else about this case. It indicates to me that things are being rushed through hush-hush. Why?

 

[Missizzy]

I know that this probably won't give you a great deal of comfort, Belinda, but I found this while searching for US experts on Satanism. LE and the Catholic Church in Italy are addressing the growing problem and have brought in an expert on Satanism for consultation. Yes, he happens to be a priest:

http://www.tldm.org/News10/satanismInItaly.htm

"One of the Vatican's specialists on Satanism and the occult, Don Oreste Benzi, has been brought to work with police.

He told the Sunday Telegraph that the natural curiosity of young people meant they were particularly attracted to the occult, and drugs were also used to influence and manipulate them.

"We will provide the units with priests who have experience in the field of devil worship and the occult," he said. "They will help the SAS to combat this problem, which is growing at an alarming rate across Italy. Already in the past we have seen churches desecrated and lives taken away through devil worship.

"We are not just talking about murders but the psychological grip that these sects have on young people, especially taking them away from traditional social values and exposing them to all sorts of horrors.

"We estimate that there are at least 8,000 Satanic sects across the country with more than 600,000 members and the numbers are growing all the time. That is why the church is more than happy to help."

and

"Many of the new wave of Satanists in Italy indulge in a potentially lethal blend of black magic, hard drugs, sex and heavy metal...."

more at link with descriptions of recent cases

I'll keep searching.

 

[Missizzy]

I have to say that after a fairly thorough search, I'm finding nothing. Those who have served as expert witnesses at trials thought to have a Satanic overtone or component have been thoroughly shouted down. One can find expert witnesses on every subject imaginable so I find it difficult to believe that no one speaks out of the practice on Satanism.

Two possibilities come to mind. Either, the men and women who consult on these cases do so under a cloak of confidentiality for their own safety OR we are all a bunch of crazy people who are jumping to conclusions. The mere fact that a man is tortured, shot, and dismembered on or near a ritual day means nothing at all.

Just a coincidence, right?

 

[Belinda]

I wonder if we would get any response to an inquiry to the prosecutor or the defense attornies? I'm not sure what, if anything, we can do at this point. I think the guilty pleas are extremely strange. Not that I favor huge long trials, but at this point in the process it has to be very unusual. Not only that, but both of them are pleading. Does anyone else think this is as odd as I do? The almost immediate pleas combined with the lack of further investigation by LE makes me very uncomfortable. It suggests cover-up to me, but cover-up of what? Is it simply the fear factor? Do these guys have past connections to something or someone that is being buried?

 

[lilalicea]

They are not pleading guilty right away. They plead not guilty at the first hearing and just changed the plea probably because they were facing the death penalty.

 

[Duncan McCloud 11]

Belinda: Now that I've got more info about the club you were speaking of, I can give a better reply. St louis is kind of odd in how there are bad areas and then go one or two blocks over and things aren't so bad at all. Especially in downtown. I travel down Washington St. when I go to my Dr. at Barnes Jewish Hospital. There are trendy clubs, restaurants, and shops on that street. Most of the buildings are old and have been rehabbed into new life. Some have top dollar lofts for rent too. So you have wealthy people in that area. Go down Washington a few blocks farther, things start to deteriorate. Same is true on Locust St. Closer to the river things are better, but as you travel deeper into the city, the area gets more seedy. None of that is as seedy as East St. Louis is. I'm afraid to drive through East St. Louis without my husband in broad daylight. I'm not afraid in St. Louis. I've seen homeless people wander about on Washington before. Sometimes, you'll see them on benches in downtown or carrying all they own down the sidewalk. It's like the city and it's citizens are at peace with them so live and let live, kind of thing. It amazes me. There is also a tent city somewhere near the riverfront that I've heard about.
I think Zach and the other two probably crossed the Eads Bridge. It's right off Washington and allows foot travel. I think the King bridge is a lot more narrow and less conducive to pedestrian travel. I haven't been on it in some time.

 

[Duncan McCloud 11]

Missizzy: I'm leaning towards that Zach went to Larry Rice's mission hoping for some work and the opportunity to do what he believed was God's will for him. He probably hoped to help those less fortunate while reaching out to them and speaking of God's love. I think he may have met Iagulli just prior to reaching the mission. I think I read somewhere that Iagulli had been banned from the mission, so maybe that is why Zach wasn't allowed to stay there. Sort of a must be a bad guy by association type of thing. Perhaps Iagulli offered him the opportunity to stay at his "place" and they just hung out together, then went to East St. Louis for the rest of the night. I'd be almost positive that Zach had no clue what East St. Louis is like and probably never could have imagined it being so bad.
Belinda: I'm with you in wondering how if others were living in the warehouse, they didn't realize what was happening. I wonder how big the warehouse is? When I looked at the area on googlemaps using sattalite view, there was a very long building and a couple of shorter ones that looked like they might be it. If it was the long one, maybe they were in an area other people didn't use. I wonder if they minded their own business out of fear? Going with the satanism idea, my grandma has always been Christian, but when she lived in a predominately black neighborhood, her black neighbors feared her because she burned candles all the time and rarely left home. They thought she was a witch and they were scared of the 100 lb. little old white lady. Word on the street was to leave the old crazy white woman alone! Cracks me up as she is so harmless. But maybe, East St Louis being predominately black, the other people in the warehouse were scared, especially if Iagulli expressed any satanic beliefs. just a thought which is all I've got concerning this case. There are so many whys and hows.

 

[Missizzy]

Thank you, Duncan, for such great insight. I would like to think that people would discuss and ask questions about me if I were killed in such a manner. I believe that all this debate and sleuthing is nothing more than honoring Zachary. I hope if his family reads our words, they know that we are trying so hard to understand and to not stand in any judgement of what he did. But I think Zachary's death could be a catalyst for greater safety awareness in that area. By rushing to trial and sentencing, that catalyst can be lost.

Belinda--You and I have discussed this same issue on several different threads. I think we are all pleased when a criminal pleads guilty. There is the issue of responsibility and ownership of the crime. I typically admire a man or woman who refuses to involve themselves with a charade. Pleading guilty usually means that scores of victims and witnesses will not be called and a great deal of tax payer money can be saved. Those are all laudable.

However, there's also a great deal swept under the carpet. The public is not informed of the details and the depth of the crime. I almost wish that before the plea, there could be an public inquiry into what exactly went on. This would inform and educate the public and add to our level of understanding of the criminal mind. I'd actually like to know about Pierson's and Iagulli's childhoods, past experiences and crimes. I'd like to know if Iagulli was present when his father was involved in some sort of a ritual murder. These facts should not be hidden in dusty law books nor on paid archival sites. We, as a society, need to know where we've gone wrong and what we need to do to change.

 

[lorik200]

Concerning the comments by Duncan, our new poster....well, we sure as heck care!! One of the things that I love about WS is that all angles can be looked at without judging the victim.

I surely do not want to be disrespectful of Zachary's memory by bringing his sexual orientation into question but I think you bring up a valid point. But surely there are far safer and young person friendly gay clubs and bars than in this area of East St. Louis. I have a hard time believing that a young man would feel that he needed to resort to the scariest and most harrowing place to go to meet a guy friend.

I am not popular for this but I have to wonder if Zachary had learned of Iagulli's interest in Satanism and set out on a quest to convince him that it was evil. I keep going back to the intensity of the church in St. Elmo. If anyone doubts this, listen to some of the sermons. It's really remarkable how many times the words Satan, demons, hell, and fire come up. Maybe Zachary felt called to walk into the fire and save some souls.

I hope if his family members read here, that they will contact their legislators and crime victim advocacy groups and dig far deeper. There's a story here that someone does not want told.

ZACH WAS NOT GAY

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_ac47182b-0b8b-5ec1-a38c-12729e4b85ee.html

Iagulli said in hi myspace I have a plan to hit the history books

 

[Missizzy]

Welcome LoriK200!! I am so sorry for your loss. It sounds as if Zachary was either a family member or dear friend. I don't think that anyone has been disrespectful here. We've all been very worried and concerned about the violence. No one should be subjected to that. We've looked at every possibility in this horrible murder. Zachary sounds like such a dear young guy and he must have been terrified. I've wondered if he had a dream of working with the homeless and was trying to help Iagulli and Pierson when they killed him.

I did notice what Iagulli said on his MS page and I read the earlier court documents about his father's involvement in a similar murder. He really is evil as is Pierson. It is just vile that they lured a young man to his death. Do you think that anyone else was at the warehouse? I would think that anyone in that area would be terribly affected by such a brutal death.

Do you believe that LE are looking at all the evidence? Many of us have felt that this is going awfully fast. It's almost as if they don't want all the details to come out. I worry that other young people might die the same way if Iagulli or Pierson have some friends who are equally as evil.

What do you think their motive was for killing this young man?



Once again, welcome.

 

[Lovejac]

ZACH WAS NOT GAY

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_ac47182b-0b8b-5ec1-a38c-12729e4b85ee.html

Iagulli said in hi myspace I have a plan to hit the history books

lorik200, I promise we are not working with anyone as evil and vile as these two. I can't even stand to look at pictures of them, as it makes my hair stand up on end.

I am so sorry that you have to deal with this tragedy of someone that you obviously care so much about.

Whether Zach was gay or not, means nothing. Although I can surely understand not wanting a loved ones memory tainted by misinformation. I believe, from what I've read about Zach, that he was adventerous, free spirited and wished to do good works and help people.

Please, please don't take offense, as we meant none. Zach is a victim of a horrible crime and we want to see justice come to all involved in his brutal murder. The members of this forum try their best to understand and look into any and all aspects, to search and question, to try to make sense of something so unimaginable.

Please accept my sincere apology for the things written here that caused you pain or anger. Catherine

 

[IWannaKnow]

ZACH WAS NOT GAY

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_ac47182b-0b8b-5ec1-a38c-12729e4b85ee.html

Iagulli said in hi myspace I have a plan to hit the history books

lorik200-Welcome to Websleuths. This is the greatest place you will find on the net to discuss these types of crimes. Most everyone here is kind and genuinely interested in helping victims and their families find closure during difficult times in their lives - if they are not they do not last long. If you look at some of the other threads, you will find many many family members here looking hard for answers and getting fantastic information and help from the caring members of this community. Bashing is not allowed - there is no bashing of Zach going on here. We are looking for justice for Zach, not to besmirch his good name. We have no doubts about Zach's goodness and honesty, for that has been proclaimed far and wide and is obvious to see.

Searching for background and intent by his perpetrators is not making Zach something he wasn't.

I re-read the article you linked to for perhaps the twentieth time and do not see any reference to his sexual orientation. Could you kindly cut and paste the section to which you wish us to pay attention to into your reply? Thank you. Welcome again to Websleuths. Glad to have you.

 

[Belinda]

lorik200 - When we begin to explore a new crime, we brainstorm and throw out any and all possibilities in order to discover avenues that we need to research. It is never done to harm or demean the victim or their families. Ever. We know that Zach was a great guy and we have also written about that a number of times. I'm sorry if you have felt offended as it surely was not our intention. We still have a great deal of concern about this case. If you can provide any further insight, it would certainly be welcome.

 

[lorik200]

lorik200-Welcome to Websleuths. This is the greatest place you will find on the net to discuss these types of crimes. Most everyone here is kind and genuinely interested in helping victims and their families find closure during difficult times in their lives - if they are not they do not last long. If you look at some of the other threads, you will find many many family members here looking hard for answers and getting fantastic information and help from the caring members of this community. Bashing is not allowed - there is no bashing of Zach going on here. We are looking for justice for Zach, not to besmirch his good name. We have no doubts about Zach's goodness and honesty, for that has been proclaimed far and wide and is obvious to see.

Searching for background and intent by his perpetrators is not making Zach something he wasn't.

I re-read the article you linked to for perhaps the twentieth time and do not see any reference to his sexual orientation. Could you kindly cut and paste the section to which you wish us to pay attention to into your reply? Thank you. Welcome again to Websleuths. Glad to have you.

I was refer'n to the link to give you the story- zach was eating at rices when he and Iagulli argued -Iagulli then smoothed it over and they lured Zach to that warehouse - Zach was not gay- some times God just has a plan we dont get all the answers to- Zach was not with them when he went to stay at rices- he was turned away cause they were full-Iagulli hadnt been seen at any soup kitchens or car hand out spots for a month- I think he went to rices that night to choose a victim- part of his plan- they prob rode the metro back and forth- I have rode the metro over to st. louis from the queen and back many times for events and only once in line out side the stadium was I ever asked to show a ticket- they are pleading guilty today- they the two of them- its funny how you type in Iagulli's name and the story comes up type in Piersons and nothing- there was 2 of them- Zach's story is over- why not dig into Pierson and Iagulli, how long had they been together , how long did they plan this, where else have they been- have they done this else where-how were they getting on the internet, stolen phones? what all stolen was in that warehouse? The family isnt out here seeking answers on zachs part- we have them- Im sure Iagulli has done this before- pierson is one to dig into-

 

[Belinda]

...why not dig into Pierson and Iagulli, how long had they been together , how long did they plan this, where else have they been- have they done this else where-how were they getting on the internet, stolen phones? what all stolen was in that warehouse? The family isnt out here seeking answers on zachs part- we have them- Im sure Iagulli has done this before- pierson is one to dig into-

Respectfully snipped. These are exactly the things we have been trying to find out. One of our biggest concerns is that they have done this before. Also, as I had noted before, where were all the people camping in the warehouse? Why have they not been found? There are so many pieces to this puzzle that still don't make sense. What was done to Zach has really touched all of us. We have been running into brick walls in trying to discover what was going on in that warehouse. There has to be witnesses. There have to be people that know more about these 2 men and what they have been up to. I'm glad Zach's family feels comforable with the answers they have received, but I feel there is much more to learn about why they did that to Zach.

 

[IWannaKnow]

I was refer'n to the link to give you the story- zach was eating at rices when he and Iagulli argued -Iagulli then smoothed it over and they lured Zach to that warehouse - Zach was not gay- some times God just has a plan we dont get all the answers to- Zach was not with them when he went to stay at rices- he was turned away cause they were full-Iagulli hadnt been seen at any soup kitchens or car hand out spots for a month- I think he went to rices that night to choose a victim- part of his plan- they prob rode the metro back and forth- I have rode the metro over to st. louis from the queen and back many times for events and only once in line out side the stadium was I ever asked to show a ticket- they are pleading guilty today- they the two of them- its funny how you type in Iagulli's name and the story comes up type in Piersons and nothing- there was 2 of them- Zach's story is over- why not dig into Pierson and Iagulli, how long had they been together , how long did they plan this, where else have they been- have they done this else where-how were they getting on the internet, stolen phones? what all stolen was in that warehouse? The family isnt out here seeking answers on zachs part- we have them- Im sure Iagulli has done this before- pierson is one to dig into-

Thank you for all that imput lorik! We are trying to look into Iagulli and Pierson, there just isn't that much information available. All of your questions are excellent and very similar to questions of ours. I think often times the focus becomes on the perpetrators and the victim gets lost in the muck. We at Websleuths try to avoid that. We try to remember who the victim was and honor them while still trying to find justice. I'm sorry if you feel we are hurting Zach's memory; Some of us feel that sleuthing his case and bringing light to it and his killers is the highest honor we could pay Zach, rather than he simply becoming another anonymous crime statistic. Since we do not have inside information, we work with what we can find on the net. Sometimes that involves asking questions which are not comfortable, but I understand the crux of your post. Do you have information which would help us dig into Iagulli and Pierson which hasn't been posted and you would not get into trouble for revealing? Some of us here would really like answers to the questions you posed.....

 

[Lovejac]

I was refer'n to the link to give you the story- zach was eating at rices when he and Iagulli argued -Iagulli then smoothed it over and they lured Zach to that warehouse - Zach was not gay- some times God just has a plan we dont get all the answers to- Zach was not with them when he went to stay at rices- he was turned away cause they were full-Iagulli hadnt been seen at any soup kitchens or car hand out spots for a month- I think he went to rices that night to choose a victim- part of his plan- they prob rode the metro back and forth- I have rode the metro over to st. louis from the queen and back many times for events and only once in line out side the stadium was I ever asked to show a ticket- they are pleading guilty today- they the two of them- its funny how you type in Iagulli's name and the story comes up type in Piersons and nothing- there was 2 of them- Zach's story is over- why not dig into Pierson and Iagulli, how long had they been together , how long did they plan this, where else have they been- have they done this else where-how were they getting on the internet, stolen phones? what all stolen was in that warehouse? The family isnt out here seeking answers on zachs part- we have them- Im sure Iagulli has done this before- pierson is one to dig into-

I would love to know what they argued about. I had read that Iagulli had been banned from the center, I would like to know why he was banned. Also, the center didn't have a record of Pierson ever staying there. I wonder if he did, but didn't give his real name.

I would also love to know how long those 2 had been hanging out together.

Thanks for giving us this additional info.

You and your family will be in my prayers today.

 

[Missizzy]

Hi Lorik200 and good to see you IWannaKnow--I, too, am pleased that Zachary's family feels that they have the answers to the questions about their loved one's death. That gives me some comfort.

But Lorik200, you state that you you are "sure that Iagulli has done this before". That's the mystery. Where and to whom? Under what circumstances? We all agree that there's very little info available on Pierson but you can rest assured that we'll keep trying. And thank you for reminding us all that we need to put more energy into researching him.

My quest is to try to locate the past victims and to prevent future victims in case these two men have friends with similar evil personalities. That's why we are so interested in who Zachary was and what brought him to East St. Louis. Why was he singled out as a victim? Surely he won't be the last innocent young man to attempt to go into a soup kitchen for a meal. That's why it is important to know how Zachary came to meet up with these men and then argued with them. Was Zachary trying to witness to them? Was it a simple argument over food or money or clothing? Why was Zachary seen pushing a large metal cart? Was he handing out things to people and trying to help? Learning more about Zachary just might help shed some light on earlier crimes related to Iagulli and Pierson.

Zachary's family might have their questions answered but I'm concerned about the hundreds of families still awaiting word of their missing sons and daughters.