Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #152 *ARREST - Richard Allen*

[RetiredEE]

Someone had posted yesterday about when the wanted poster info was changed. I found a little more detail:

Some suspect info removed from FBI poster on Delphi murders (WTHR article)

"Author: WTHR.com staff
Published: 10:12 AM EDT March 16, 2022
Updated: 10:31 AM EDT March 16, 2022

DELPHI, Ind. — A new FBI poster on the Delphi killings removed some of the suspect description.

The flier includes images of Libby German and Abby Williams, along with an image of the suspect from German's phone and a sketch.
What is missing is the height, weight and age of the suspect.
The request to remove the information came from the Indiana State Police. It released the following statement to 13News:

"The Delphi Task Force requested the FBI to remove the physical descriptors listed on the flyer. Investigators do not want to discourage or stop the public from submitting a tip because the person does not specifically meet the height, weight, and age description. Investigators would like the public to focus on the photo of the man on the bridge, the voice recording, and second sketch that was released by law enforcement."

One of the older wanted posters showing a range of 5'6" to 5'10" as the height range of the suspect.

ISP either had RA on their radar at the point where they asked the poster to be changed, or had run out of results and decided to open up the wanted parameters as sort of a Hail Mary effort. Wonder if the original height estimate came from a witness, some calculations from the picture or ?

All moo, of course

 

[WingsOverTX]

Either I'm extremely tired or I've lost track of my amendments, either is possible. Do you think LE conducted an illegal search? Sorry, I'm just confused.

No. The issue is about the AA & other docs being withheld from the press and therefore, the public. No one has suggested any improprieties with the LE conduct as far as I am aware.

 

[weepingangel]

RA & his wife paid off a 2nd mortgage on their house in 2013 about two years after it was issued. How did they find that much cash in a short time?

Info posted earlier in thread

Legal settlement ?
Scratch ticket? (Lottery)
Inheritance/life insurance payout

 

[gizmobtj]

There is something strange about the sealing of the records. Has anyone cited the legal theory? Under the two provisions relevant to protecting investigations in the Indiana Court rules, a temporary seal must expire at the point of arrest.

Indiana Rules of Court



Rules on Access to Court Records

Effective January 1, 2022



[snip]



The following shall be excluded from Public Access and no notice of exclusion from Public Access is required: Entire criminal cases when a request to exclude Case Records from Public Access is filed contemporaneously with a request for an arrest warrant. When this request is made, the request and the Court Record will be rendered confidential until the Court rules on the request.

When probable cause to justify issuance of an arrest warrant has been established, the Case Records shall be publicly accessible unless the judge determines that the facts presented in the request for exclusion from Public Access support a reasonable belief that public disclosure will increase the risk of flight by the defendant, create an undue risk of harm to the community or a law enforcement officer, or jeopardize an on-going criminal investigation.

An order excluding Public Access issued under this subsection shall expire immediately upon the arrest of the defendant.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.in.gov/courts/rules/records/records.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjg2Z_-24v7AhVTFFkFHVDgAU8QFnoECAwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw33ZLXbaiGzBVU4ZXpZhUi4

 

[TL4S]

For anyone who might not be as familiar with this case, and especially anything related to KAK and his CSAM charges, I want to offer a few items, which I'll link at the bottom. It's being said on this thread that KAK was catfishing L and had planned to meet her on the bridge that day. We actually don't know if this is true. *If you already know this stuff, scroll and roll.

On Dec. 6, 2021, the ISP put out a video release discussing the fake online account, a_shots, who was attempting to obtain nude images, addresses, and meeting up with underage girls on SM platforms such as IG and SC. They requested anyone with information on the "creator" of a_shots to send tips to the A & L tip line. The following day, a news source published the information identifying KAK as the a_shots creator. He was already jailed under 30 CSAM-related charges.

Following this, the MS podcast got a hold of several documents regarding KAK, and they claimed to have a "source" giving them tips about the investigation into Delphi.

In April 2022, the ISP updated the a_shots release by adding the SM platform Yellow as an app a_shots had communicated with.

The problem herein is that the only source saying a_shots was catfishing L, or that he planned to meet her (never specifically said on the bridge), is the 2020 interview, and KAK's interview with HLN's BMcD. It's been pointed out that anything from the 2020 interview could be lies, be it on KAK's part, or even LE's. LE claims that a_shots was "grooming" L, and they say he was one of the last people to talk to her before she died. LE claims L wanted to meet a_shots and that after her death, the account communicated with one of her friends, saying, "I was supposed to meet that girl but she never showed up." We, the public, cannot say for certain that this actually occurred, or to what extent L was truly communicating with a_shots. Her family has confirmed that she did communicate with the account, but nothing specific as to the extent. If LE was lying as a tactic to get info out of KAK, then we have no way of knowing what's true and what's false in that interview. And KAK could have been lying in his interview with BMcD, too.

Then we have the ISP taking temporary custody of KAK, as seen on court records. We don't know why. Then the MS brought us the "tip" about the Wabash River search and K fire pit search, claiming it is related to Delphi. Again, this info comes from their "source," which is understandably kept anonymous, but we are then left to take their word on the veracity of this "source."

Today, the Carroll County Prosecutor declined to answer anything regarding the Ks because, "they are part of the investigation." Clearly, we all do not share the same thoughts about whether or not the Ks are involved in the murders, but KAK was questioned by LE on it, and he was in contact with L. What that means is anyone's guess.

Links:

A_shots release and related article:

https://fox59.com/news/court-docs-c...ny_shots-account-link-to-delphi-case-unclear/

2/25/17 Probably Cause Affidavit to search the Peru home:
https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Kegan-Anthony-Kline-PC.pdf

2020 KAK interview with LE:
https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/u...an-Kline-10-19-2-FINAL-VERSION-Redacted-1.pdf

Transcipt of BMcD HLN interview:

Murder Sheet:
Murder Sheet

 

[margarita25]

Someone had posted yesterday about when the wanted poster info was changed. I found a little more detail:

Some suspect info removed from FBI poster on Delphi murders (WTHR article)

"Author: WTHR.com staff
Published: 10:12 AM EDT March 16, 2022
Updated: 10:31 AM EDT March 16, 2022

DELPHI, Ind. — A new FBI poster on the Delphi killings removed some of the suspect description.

The flier includes images of Libby German and Abby Williams, along with an image of the suspect from German's phone and a sketch.
What is missing is the height, weight and age of the suspect.
The request to remove the information came from the Indiana State Police. It released the following statement to 13News:

"The Delphi Task Force requested the FBI to remove the physical descriptors listed on the flyer. Investigators do not want to discourage or stop the public from submitting a tip because the person does not specifically meet the height, weight, and age description. Investigators would like the public to focus on the photo of the man on the bridge, the voice recording, and second sketch that was released by law enforcement."

One of the older wanted posters showing a range of 5'6" to 5'10" as the height range of the suspect.

ISP either had RA on their radar at the point where they asked the poster to be changed, or had run out of results and decided to open up the wanted parameters as sort of a Hail Mary effort. Wonder if the original height estimate came from a witness, some calculations from the picture or ?

All moo, of course

Yes, I commented as welling this in response to post by @TL4S re: height: Bringing forward for reference fwiw.

October30——————-“Pulling my post for reference from April 3, 2022 - I wonder if this time frame is significant, when the height, etc. was removed from the FBI posters. Article is March 16. I said “Now they could get tips of someone who is, say 5’5”. Why would they open themselves up to this if there is no way that could be the man on the bridge?”

April 3, 2022 —————-Backtracking a bit to mention/question one point regarding the FBI removing height, specifically, from the FBI poster:

Reference:

Some suspect info removed from FBI poster on Delphi killings | wthr.com

"The Delphi Task Force requested the FBI to remove the physical descriptors listed on the flyer. Investigators do not want to discourage or stop the public from submitting a tip because the person does not specifically meet the height, weight, and age description. Investigators would like the public to focus on the photo of the man on the bridge, the voice recording, and second sketch that was released by law enforcement."

I understand what they’re saying, but I thought the height is a variable that is determined/calculated via a scientific method. I remember from the old Forensic Files, etc. they were able to ascertain a subject’s height, for example someone in Walmart surveillance footage, via a mathematical/calculative approach. Iirc, there’s a specific name for this and I can not remember what it is right now. But my point is, isn’t the height something that is definitive, based on evaluating distance, etc.? So why would they want tips on subjects who may not be this height? Obviously there is more room for variance wrt age and weight, but is there actually room for error with the original height estimate? I’m not quite understanding how the height could vary in this instance and appreciate feedback on this.

—

Eta: A quick google of height determination as related to suspects in video footage reveals many results; this link appears to mention what I’m thinking about:

How Video Forensic Experts Determine Height in Images and Videos | ncavf.com

“Enhanced photo from a crime scene. NCAVF used advanced 3D rendering software to build a model of the crime scene, compare that model to frames from surveillance video, and determine the height of a suspect.

The science of measuring height in photographs (or from video frames) is called photogrammetry. NCAVF is able to utilize these forensic techniques. This process can only be done after some aspect of successful crime scene reconstruction. The four main methods of measuring height are:

1. 3D Modeling of the Perpetrator,
2. 3D Modeling of the Crime Scene,
3. Reverse Projection Photogrammetry, and
4. Single View Metrology (Vanishing Points).”

Eta2: “Photogrammetry !! That’s what I was thinking of!!! I thought this was an exact science, maybe it’s not? Furthermore, IF there could be a variance of say a few inches even, wouldn’t they at least be able to provide a range? Now they could get tips of someone who is, say 5’5”. Why would they open themselves up to this if there is no way that could be the man on the bridge?

—-

Eta3: Even before the advancement of “3D” technology, I think the height of a perp is something that could be ascertained pretty easily even without all the fancy technology.

—-

Eta4: More from the above link, there is a lot at that link, worth a read, imo:

“Three challenges are often faced while determining the height of a person in any type of surveillance imagery or videos:

1. Camera and Lens Calibration,
2. Lens Distortion, and
3. Techniques used by criminals to manipulate appearance of height.”

Last edited: Apr 3, 2022

 

[weepingangel]

Hmmmm...interesting thought. I'd bet he was at least at home that day.

Retail workers often work weekends, so get a weekday off.

 

[asyousay]

I am finding it hard to understand how his wife did not recognize him from the video His outfit was quite distinctive.

It was blue jeans and a blue jacket what made it distinctive?

 

[Shade13]

It may have been stated before but I've never seen it.

Just who gave the 2 descriptions of the suspect that led to those artist renderings? How did they see him? Did they pass him leaving or entering the park? Driving out? What?

 

[Chelly]

Is there an updated timeline which includes the most recent events with KAK in jail and court dates etc?

There's a dedicated thread here at WebSleuths:

GUILTY - IN - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

This thread is for Kegan Kline’s current case as it progresses through the justice system and is separate from the Delphi thread. The charges stem from a search of his Peru, Indiana, home on Feb. 25, 2017, just 11 days after the bodies of Liberty German and Abigail Williams were discovered. The...

www.websleuths.com

 

[taylorss]

IMO,
no need to worry that KAK will ever be labeled anything other than what he is - a pathetic, gross loser.

He will always be linked to the underbelly of the dump.

He is nothing.

Oh yes ITA - KAK is a loathsome creep of the sort that society can’t tolerate. The more you find out about him, the more you regret looking. It hardly gets worse than this cretin… the best thing that can be said about him is he may not be a double murderer.

 

[SuziQ]

@MistyWaters I hope this doesn't get too messed up. I am copying from the last thread. That response was in regards to another case in the town of Flora it appears he didn't answer about Libby and Abby at all. Eve clarifying it is not his case. IMO.

Q. The public has heard for four years, the investigation “is one puzzle piece from being solved.” What is that one piece specifically? Is it a name? Is it Jon Doe told me he killed the kids? Or, are you looking for confirmation of what you know- Jon Doe was not at work, he has a blue jacket, he cut his hair on Feb 14 or I saw a guy with a bloody jacket at 4 p.m. on Feb 13 at the gas station? You are not giving the public a lot to work with yet no arrests in four years. Aren’t you worried about more victims? Is the suspect dead or incarcerated so that is why no press conference or additional information is being released?

A. The person specifically responsible for Abby and Libby’s death. Our team of trained, experienced, and professional investigators will know that “one piece” when they see it.

Q. In your professional opinion, would you describe the deaths of the six females as “planned”? (***This question refers to six which included not only Libby and Abby, but also the four sisters who died in the Flora fire****).

A. No. (*****in response to planned?****) Rather, “victims of circumstance or opportunity.” Additionally, ISP is the lead with the Flora investigation. Our agency is not actively involved with that investigation.

(******) added by me

 

[CSIDreamer]

No. The issue is about the AA & other docs being withheld from the press and therefore, the public. No one has suggested any improprieties with the LE conduct as far as I am aware.

I thought that was the 1st amendment. That's what's confusing me lol.

 

[WingsOverTX]

The attorney could make a statement but the attorney could not disclose any material or information subject to the sealing order. Also the attorney has to act at the direction of his or her client - if the client does not want you to make a statement, you really can't. (Note: There are other ways to seal documents, so this is by no means the only way)


Wonder if he'll get a public defender or if we'll end up with some character doing it for attention? What's Norm Pattis up to?
There is something strange about the sealing of the records. Has anyone cited the legal theory? Under the two provisions relevant to protecting investigations in the Indiana Court rules, a temporary seal must expire at the point of arrest.

Indiana Rules of Court



Rules on Access to Court Records

Effective January 1, 2022



[snip]



The following shall be excluded from Public Access and no notice of exclusion from Public Access is required: Entire criminal cases when a request to exclude Case Records from Public Access is filed contemporaneously with a request for an arrest warrant. When this request is made, the request and the Court Record will be rendered confidential until the Court rules on the request.

When probable cause to justify issuance of an arrest warrant has been established, the Case Records shall be publicly accessible unless the judge determines that the facts presented in the request for exclusion from Public Access support a reasonable belief that public disclosure will increase the risk of flight by the defendant, create an undue risk of harm to the community or a law enforcement officer, or jeopardize an on-going criminal investigation.

An order excluding Public Access issued under this subsection shall expire immediately upon the arrest of the defendant.

Thanks for sharing the Indiana law.

I disagree with it on the grounds that the public's right to know is completely ignored in making the judgment call. The reasons given for a right to withhold are so broad, almost every AA could be withheld on that basis, which would be fine in a country without a 4th amendment.

FL somehow manages to release everything to the public in a timely manner without hindering justice. Every state should follow Sunshine Laws. How can we protest injustices we are not even aware of?

Yes, these laws are enshrined by states. That doesn't mean they are right or even legal under the U.S. Constitution.

 

[Hatch]

This is the kind of thing that happens in a bad movie. Just unbelievable.

Does anybody recall in any of the press conferences a personality profile being discussed? I don’t recall ever reading anything about one being done.
Assuming RA is the soul perpetrator, he had the opportunity to relive his deed over and over again by discussing it with others as a concerned citizen. Dr. Lector unbelievable.

 

[WingsOverTX]

I thought that was the 1st amendment. That's what's confusing me lol.

The 4th amendment protects the press & gives them a right to access which is tantamount to protecting the public's right to know. This question comes up every time. There are 1st amendment issues at play, as well. But if the press sue for access, it will be under the 4th, I believe. Better scholars may correct me. And frequently do.

 

[WingsOverTX]

Legal settlement ?
Scratch ticket? (Lottery)
Inheritance/life insurance payout

Right? We don't know. And I'm not sure it's pertinent to the case, anyway.

 

[CSIDreamer]

The 4th amendment protects the press & gives them a right to access which is tantamount to protecting the public's right to know. This question comes up every time. There are 1st amendment issues at play, as well. But if the press sue for access, it will be under the 4th, I believe. Better scholars may correct me. And frequently do.

The 4th amendment regards illegal search and seizure. Im not trying to get into some huge debate but I was very confused. It might be worth you double checking. JMO

 

[CoverMeCagney]

What is CVS? I’m in the UK and can’t view their website, but I’m getting the impression it’s our equivalent of Boots or Superdrug (toiletries, perfume, make up etc) rather than just a dispensing chemist / pharmacy. Anyone know?

Glad to hear the latest news and massive respect to those who’ve diligently followed the case…. I stopped when the threads were still in single figures so I’ve missed about 150,000 posts

 

[MassGuy]

Does anybody recall in any of the press conferences a personality profile being discussed? I don’t recall ever reading anything about one being done.
Assuming RA is the soul perpetrator, he had the opportunity to relive his deed over and over again by discussing it with others as a concerned citizen. Dr. Lector unbelievable.

I don't think they released an actual profile, but they basically did that when they described him and his behavior.

They talked about the behavior changes he might exhibit (perhaps turning to drugs or alcohol, that he lived in the area, and that he'd be following this investigation closely.

They also mentioned:
Unexpected travel
Shaving a beard
Cut or change hair color
Change the way they dress
Different sleep pattern
Anxious or irritable
Alibi building (talking about where they were that day)

Carter also said during the second to last press conference: "We know that this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know - that one day, you will."

I'm sure this guy eventually got off on the discussion of the murders, and enjoyed seeing the posters, and interacting with friends and family.

FBI seeks behavioral changes in Delphi case

Think back to Monday, Feb. 13, the day two Delphi teens went missing after being dropped off to go hiking on theMononHigh Bridge Trail: Did someone you know make an excuse for missing an appointment, or maybe suddenly change their appearance? You may have information that could help solve the double

www.wrtv.com

Delphi Murders: ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Libby & Abby’s killer

Exactly what that information is, and how it is expected to help the investigation is unknown at this time, but Indiana State Police have described it as "significant."

www.wrtv.com