Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #155 *Richard Allen Arrested*

[Sundog]

I am a UK’er so I have completely different mindset because we don’t get this information so of course my opinion will always be different because it’s a vastly different system.


He is in isolation to protect himself as he was the one who has been charged with killing two teenagers. That’s his own doing and nobody else’s.

He wanted private legal counsel and has now had to backtrack and ask for a public one which again is his own doing due to the choices he made.


This is all on him and nobody else can be blamed.


The documents were sealed to protect the case so I don’t understand the mentality of wanting to jeopardize the case by demanding the public is told what’s in it. I can not wrap my head around wanting to jeopardise a case where two young girls were brutally murdered.


Why is there no faith in the legal process?

I don't think the issue is about not having faith in the judicial system, but when the judicial system is not working the way it is supposed to, not following the rules that have been established as the default in the system, then the media and individuals question it to hold the system accountable for the rules that have been established. And that seems to be what is happening here - the PCA was sealed but a hearing will be held on November 22nd to determine if that is appropriate with the court hearing from all parties - defense, prosecution, media, public, etc. That is how it should be, as the case is People against RA, that's us. We need to know that the laws are being followed. So I think it actually shows faith in the system that we have established in the U.S. and when it is suspended or not followed, then because we have faith, we call the court to accountability. JMO.

 

[AngTxGal]

I agree the phrasing is a bit awkward. It could be that MS is trying to conceal how they got that information, if it’s from a source who isn’t officially authorized to talk.

Denial is an amazing thing. Sometimes it's a manufactured thing that takes energy. People have to assert innocence. When the emotional energy for denial drops, then people start changing their story. Then there are some people are so compartmentalized in their minds that they are functionally living in separate realities. This can be useful for agents in espionage, where maintaining separate personalities on assignment is necessary.* Or, it can be evidenced in criminals, where even with video people deny the obvious and their arrest is a conspiracy or failure of justice. I suspect RA is able to practice partial compartmentalization. (I'm waiting for the release of the interrogation videos in a decade.)

*Soviet agent of espionage Rudolf Able maintained multiple personalities successfully, and was only compromised by another Soviet agent looking to defect.

Agree, denial can make even the sane live essentially in two realities. I get that from the perspective of emotional abuse, compartmentalization is a survival tactic. People that act for a living must draw themselves into such a state as well for intense rolls different from their own natural personality. That may be part of the allure, the game
It begs the question of why? Was he a thrill seeker in his younger years that got bored? Did he date around? Was his wife his only girlfriend? Insight from people who knew him in high school before he married would be interesting.
They married at 19, there is a lot a person doesn’t experience if they settle down that young, and if it was due to his child?

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

They have actually stated that they purposefully will not give the credentials of their sources (although their sources are thoroughly vetted) so that they were not easily identified.

How can one be sure that their sources are thoroughly vetted?
I like to believe the best of every person. Obviously, as you know, that doesn’t always happen on my part (again, I do sincerely apologize), but when it does happen how are we to know that these sources are really legit? Are we supposed to just take their word for it?
I don’t mean to sound like I’m attacking you personally as I’m most definitely not, but rather I’m just trying to wrap my head around taking someone’s word for it.

ETA: it looks like MG kind of answered my questions.

 

[AngTxGal]

I am not sure they knew it was RA, or had one person in mind, in 2019.

I think this was the time when they realized it was not DN, and that they spent a lot of time chasing a man not involved in that crime.

It happened after they sent their data to GBI, remember? I think that GBI made a good and through job, but for some reason though a couple of people were involved. This is why a much younger sketch appeared, who might have had traits of several potential pois. JMO. For some reason, GBI suspected some relationship between the alleged perpetrators. Maybe it was the witness seeing a young man on the highway, or someone else.

It seemed to me, and it is purely my opinion, that ISP did not know who the perp was and were throwing darts at the wall seeing where they might stick. It would seem not impossible if they changed the perp and made him more “youthful” because they thought that fear for the younger relative being arrested might make the older criminal step forward.

When DC said that BG could have traits of both OBG and YBG, I think they meant, an older and a younger people who have familial similarity.

I don’t think RA was on their horizon at all. I am not sure that they had one YBG in mind, it is quite feasible that there were several. It appeared to me, however, that they were addressing a younger person.

JMO - but this is how it seems to me.

So much has never been released, that is what the part I do not get. Leaving a community in the midst of fear when more was known that could help catch him doesn’t sit well.
We all agree a solid case and conviction are important, but so is the safety of the community, and mental wellness. It is the same with Evansdale, very little has come out and ten years have passed with no arrest. I almost pray evidence is found that links to RA so those families could get answers

 

[AngTxGal]

How can one be sure that their sources are thoroughly vetted?
I like to believe the best of every person. Obviously, as you know, that doesn’t always happen on my part (again, I do sincerely apologize), but when it does happen how are we to know that these sources are really legit? Are we supposed to just take their word for it?
I don’t mean to sound like I’m attacking you personally as I’m most definitely not, but rather I’m just trying to wrap my head around taking someone’s word for it.

ETA: it looks like MG kind of answered my questions.

I agree with you and have the same question. How can that be ok for an attorney to be sharing with the public leaked information about an ongoing investigation?
Is that not obstruction of justice? Or are those leaks some tactic of investigators to use social media?

 

[Speculaytor]

I am really struggling to wrap my head around LE missing RA who came forward and identified himself. I mean, how many people were out there that day, during that time. There just couldn't have been that many or he could not have committed the murders. I am so disappointed they did not narrow down the height of BG from the video, he went right past trees they could have compared. RA is short, it would be a serious clue.

 

[AngTxGal]

I am really struggling to wrap my head around LE missing RA who came forward and identified himself. I mean, how many people were out there that day, during that time. There just couldn't have been that many or he could not have committed the murders. I am so disappointed they did not narrow down the height of BG from the video, he went right past trees they could have compared. RA is short, it would be a serious clue.

It would make sense if he had a friend or family member in law enforcement. If investigators were local then they could use their own personal dealings with him as a way to screen him. If they are not local, why did they deem him not a person to look more deeply into?
Did someone give him an alibi for part of the time? Who lied to do that?
Where was his wife on that day? Where did she think he was? Why was he not at work?
I agree, how on blessed earth did this guy who came forward get missed if the community is less than 3000, and those on and around the bridge that day likely totaled less than 50, and this guy was seen by at least one witness who is alive, and had his voice and image recorded?
Maybe it was simply an oversight by inexperienced investigators
I have family and friends in LE, I just want to understand

 

[mrtnira]

I agree with you and have the same question. How can that be ok for an attorney to be sharing with the public leaked information about an ongoing investigation?
Is that not obstruction of justice? Or are those leaks some tactic of investigators to use social media?

The word leak has several uses in a circumstance like this. A leak can be deliberate or an act of error -- someone slips and lets something go. Where a release of information is done deliberately, it can be done from several motivations. Anger, frustration, disappointment, revenge, etc., are very human causes. A structured release of information by a lawyer, or a business, or by someone in governance is usually an effort to shape public perception. Most leaks are authorized and are done in a way to separate the actor from the consequence of the action.

 

[AngTxGal]

I don't think the issue is about not having faith in the judicial system, but when the judicial system is not working the way it is supposed to, not following the rules that have been established as the default in the system, then the media and individuals question it to hold the system accountable for the rules that have been established. And that seems to be what is happening here - the PCA was sealed but a hearing will be held on November 22nd to determine if that is appropriate with the court hearing from all parties - defense, prosecution, media, public, etc. That is how it should be, as the case is People against RA, that's us. We need to know that the laws are being followed. So I think it actually shows faith in the system that we have established in the U.S. and when it is suspended or not followed, then because we have faith, we call the court to accountability. JMO.

Well said, I’d also add that he is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. So wanting justice does not mean him being found guilty if he is not in fact guilty. Justice would be getting the responsible party, and holding them accountable.
The system is a checks and balances, and the public is part of that process. Because of the push from both sides, theoretically, the system would be more just. From that perspective it is our job to push, not so we can always win, but for the system to know we are present and watching. Judges are elected or appointed, Sheriffs are elected. The public has a say if they keep their job, or that is the idea

 

[LeBlack]

I am really struggling to wrap my head around LE missing RA who came forward and identified himself. I mean, how many people were out there that day, during that time. There just couldn't have been that many or he could not have committed the murders. I am so disappointed they did not narrow down the height of BG from the video, he went right past trees they could have compared. RA is short, it would be a serious clue.

Libby's video gave us 2 important clues -(let's go with these for now) the pant legs were crumpled -- Short man that can't easily get pants off the rack , or someone is wearing pants belonging to someone else.
The voice is that of a smoker +/or drinker

MOO

 

[AngTxGal]

The word leak has several uses in a circumstance like this. A leak can be deliberate or an act of error -- someone slips and lets something go. Where a release of information is done deliberately, it can be done from several motivations. Anger, frustration, disappointment, revenge, etc., are very human causes. A structured release of information by a lawyer, or a business, or by someone in governance is usually an effort to shape public perception. Most leaks are authorized and are done in a way to separate the actor from the consequence of the action.

Yes, I understand, and then there is the $ angle.
Imagine the benefit to someone to be the receiver of leaked info, and the benefit to the leaker to gather such info and sell it. No evidence of this- just a speculation

 

[5W's]

Either this, or you would stay by him, absolutely sure that your partner was an honest man and it all was a horrible mistake.

<modsnip - opinion stated as fact>

I feel sorry for her and their daughter. Its so sad. She obviously married with great hope for the future and what came out in reality must be very hard to take for her and the daughter. On that bridge the daughter doesn't look that much older than the girls. So sad. Its like other cases though where we wonder about those closest being aware of anything. That picture of the daughter on that bridge is very innocent though on the child's part. IMO if I was him I wouldn't let my child go anywhere near that bridge after what happened. I mean its so devastating what happened that even if he didn't take the picture and it was his wife who did what did he think? It was like any other day no thought of Abby and Libby? I'm actually quite disturbed looking at that picture of his child on that bridge. It makes me think it could have happened to her. How awful is that. Again so very sad for the mother and daughter. What a shock to them. As for knowing anything like I said before sometimes we pass on things like oh it just normal hijinks and there could be something more to it. I hope his wife and daughter didn't find out something because it would be tripally hard for them and being forced by their shock and horror to tell LE about it. I prefer LE invesigating and finding out actually and then asking the family if they noticed anything unusual. Even that is hard to imagine for the possible perp's family because it would be shcocking.

 

[AngTxGal]

I feel sorry for her and their daughter. Its so sad. She obviously married with great hope for the future and what came out in reality must be very hard to take for her and the daughter. On that bridge the daughter doesn't look that much older than the girls. So sad. Its like other cases though where we wonder about those closest being aware of anything. That picture of the daughter on that bridge is very innocent though on the child's part. IMO if I was him I wouldn't let my child go anywhere near that bridge after what happened. I mean its so devastating what happened that even if he didn't take the picture and it was his wife who did what did he think? It was like any other day no thought of Abby and Libby? I'm actually quite disturbed looking at that picture of his child on that bridge. It makes me think it could have happened to her. How awful is that. Again so very sad for the mother and daughter. What a shock to them. As for knowing anything like I said before sometimes we pass on things like oh it just normal hijinks and there could be something more to it. I hope his wife and daughter didn't find out something because it would be tripally hard for them and being forced by their shock and horror to tell LE about it. I prefer LE invesigating and finding out actually and then asking the family if they noticed anything unusual. Even that is hard to imagine for the possible perp's family because it would be shcocking.

His daughter having her pictures taken on that bridge is weird, IMO
If she graduated in 2012 then those pictures may be before the murders.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I am really struggling to wrap my head around LE missing RA who came forward and identified himself. I mean, how many people were out there that day, during that time. There just couldn't have been that many or he could not have committed the murders. I am so disappointed they did not narrow down the height of BG from the video, he went right past trees they could have compared. RA is short, it would be a serious clue.

I could not love your post more! ITA!

JMVHAspieO

 

[5W's]

The photo was taken for her graduation in 2012. 5 years before the murders.

I didn' realize it was 2012. Thanks to those of you who pointed it out. Hopefully there were no photos afterwards that would be unfathmoable to me. It would be horrible as I said in my original post on this matter.

 

[NeverPersonal]

Very strange since certainly the LEOs who arrested him informed him that he's entitled to an attorney and one can be appointed.

There are lawyers committed to indigent defense who believe strongly the strength of your defense should not be correlated to how much money you have. So private attorneys in Indiana can be appointed and compensated at the court appointed counsel rate.

I don't know how many people would want to volunteer their time otherwise.

Kind of- A private attorney, one that doesn't work for the public defenders office, can be appointed by the court as the public defender. It's not the defendant choice on who it would be.

that is so interesting - does this apply to every state or only some?
i've never heard of that before. i thought you either paid for your own private attorney, or you were assigned a public offender, and those were your only options.

 

[Lilibet]

His daughter having her pictures taken on that bridge is weird, IMO
If she graduated in 2012 then those pictures may be before the murders.

I think the picture(s) on the bridge were taken well before the murders, as others have mentioned. But one was posted in 2018 after the murders (among other photos on her birthday). Even just posting it after the murders in that small town seems weird and rather callous to me. I wouldn’t think that bridge would ever have a pleasant connotation after those horrific murders. But it is a lovely picture and Mom probably had fond memories of her daughter at that time, and unfortunately didn’t think it through when posting.
JMO

 

[WingsOverTX]

They have actually stated that they purposefully will not give the credentials of their sources (although their sources are thoroughly vetted) so that they were not easily identified.

So trust but verify without the verify part being public?

I was not impressed with the "Who is RA" episode. I find the format awkward, the commentary flat & the content lacking. What did I learn? Nothing memorable or useful IMO.

And the narrators' pointing out obvious logical conclusions was a waste of time. I & the majority of their listeners don't need to be guided to understand the obvious. I'm surprised it's a source allowed here. Especially due to the whole unverified sources thing that brings up so many questions, consuming space on this thread.

Hated the playing a sound when direct quoting a source, too. Very ODD.

Not planning to listen again.
JMO

 

[5W's]

I think the picture(s) on the bridge were taken well before the murders, as others have mentioned. But one was posted in 2018 after the murders (among other photos on her birthday). Even just posting it after the murders in that small town seems weird and rather callous to me. I wouldn’t think that bridge would ever have a pleasant connotation after those horrific murders. But it is a lovely picture and Mom probably had fond memories of her daughter at that time, and unfortunately didn’t think it through when posting.
JMO

I realize that and agree but I was commenting on the father. What was he thinking. Afterall it is 2018 and as I said if it was me (as a parent) I would never let my child go on that bridge knowing what happened and if this fellow is the perp especially. The mother and child of course innocently posted the photo not realizing the connection at the time sadly as I said above. If he is the perp then how could he let his wife and daughter go on that bridge? If I was her parent I would not want to look at that photo. Maybe this gives us a perspective on the outlook the possible perp had. Doesn't care if they were on it after what happened. I mean it could be anyone else as well, not just Abby and Libby if one thinks about it. Even if it was targeted. IDK it was very violent and not care if one's wife and daughter were on it. Just doesn't sit right with me, again if its the possible perp because at this point we don't know and can only speculate. BUT......

 

[Gemmie]

Libby's video gave us 2 important clues -(let's go with these for now) the pant legs were crumpled -- Short man that can't easily get pants off the rack , or someone is wearing pants belonging to someone else.
The voice is that of a smoker +/or drinker

MOO

Regarding crumpled pants. I'll add one more thing. And this is from my experience for the past 40+ years. Some men wear their pants VERY baggy. 2 personal experiences. First back 40+ yrs ago when I first came across this. 2 young males walking in front of me. Pants drooping and drooping till they slid down. Dude bent over to grab his pants and pull them back up. (Ick. lol)

The most recent incident was 2 days ago. Saw a guy where the top of his pants was worn below his crotch. Below. His. Crotch! I was trying to figure out how that was even possible. I've seen it multiple times so it has to be, even though I can't wrap my head around HOW it can be. lol I wished this "fad" would have gone away decades ago, yet it's still here. One note that these experiences are in 2 different states and in 2 "nice areas".

So, I'm not at all surprised that RA had baggy pants. Likely he wasn't one of the 2 extreme cases I witnessed above, but baggy (crumpled) pants are common among some.