Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #161

[Boxer]

Did he have time to cross the bridge without the girls A&L seeing him?

Barely, if on first platform has about 4-5 minutes to get across.
They were 4-5 minutes for the abutment.
This is an old railroad, you can see so far down the trails.

 

[ss90]

The thing I've been wondering for some days now, and since reading past ten or so pages it seems some of you have too, is how come the officer RA told his story about being on the bridge never in five years questioned what came of it?

I guess there's a chance he was not privy to the specifics of this investication, being "only" CO, but I've been understood that it was more or less an all hands on deck kinda situation, why else would he be taking witness statements in the first place. So assuming he knew our boy Allen was the ONLY male on those trails at that time frame, perhaps even knew his clothing, how come he never asked anyone like "hey we did have this one dude who pretty much fits the bill, did you clear him or what". Misfiled or not, that should have given a reason to go through those interviews, find it and check it out, right?
I just can't wrap my head around why the CO never spoke up and ask these questions, or did he but no one paid much attention?

 

[helpfulcharlie]

The thing I've been wondering for some days now, and since reading past ten or so pages it seems some of you have too, is how come the officer RA told his story about being on the bridge never in five years questioned what came of it?

I guess there's a chance he was not privy to the specifics of this investication, being "only" CO, but I've been understood that it was more or less an all hands on deck kinda situation, why else would he be taking witness statements in the first place. So assuming he knew our boy Allen was the ONLY male on those trails at that time frame, perhaps even knew his clothing, how come he never asked anyone like "hey we did have this one dude who pretty much fits the bill, did you clear him or what". Misfiled or not, that should have given a reason to go through those interviews, find it and check it out, right?
I just can't wrap my head around why the CO never spoke up and ask these questions, or did he but no one paid much attention?

One thing that might have played into that is that in large group situations, if you're just a grunt, a cog in the wheel taking statements, one of many, you might inadvertently inject your own perception of the sense of importance of a witness or statement, and pass that up the chain. Humans are fallible. So say Mr. CO has RA on his list of people to follow up on, takes a statement, and gets it into his head that RA is either (a) a harmless goofball that doesn't fit the profile, or (b) is a lonely confused guy that's trying to inject himself into the investigation for some exaggerated sense of self-importance. Or (c), maybe at the time of that interview, LE already had a very strong feeling it was somebody else, and this lesser character didn't bubble up enough to overcome that tunnel vision. And then, as has been said many times, that info is lost among the thousands of other tips for whatever reason. I've been involved in large-scale events where the fact-gathering is farmed out to a large number of people, and it's really easy for something to get glossed over in those situations.

I really hope that whatever happened that caused that first interview to be ignored or forgotten is scrutinized really closely at trial, because I feel like there's a real opportunity for a teaching moment here, a potential for improved processes. I'm pretty hesitant to throw dirt on LE this early in the game, at least until we know who specifically screwed up and how. LE is not a monolith, it's a bustling collective of people fighting competing priorities.

 

[Marzipan]

Do people believe this will make it to trial before summer?

I see the responses that there is no way, but I do think there’s a chance it won’t be delayed as long as some think. I want to believe that and I can imagine circumstances that make it far from impossible. However, I can also see reasons why it could be drawn out. Sure hope not. The families and community need to be able to write a new chapter for themselves.

 

[Gemmie]

I see the responses that there is no way, but I do think there’s a chance it won’t be delayed as long as some think. I want to believe that and I can imagine circumstances that make it far from impossible. However, I can also see reasons why it could be drawn out. Sure hope not. The families and community need to be able to write a new chapter for themselves.

I'm curious for those that think there will be a delay, what will the delay(s) be? Why the delay in your mind?

 

[helpfulcharlie]

I see the responses that there is no way, but I do think there’s a chance it won’t be delayed as long as some think. I want to believe that and I can imagine circumstances that make it far from impossible. However, I can also see reasons why it could be drawn out. Sure hope not. The families and community need to be able to write a new chapter for themselves.

Also they should start the trial quickly for the benefit of the not-yet-proven-guilty defendant. I mean it sure seems to ME like he did it, but on the off chance he didn't, they need to minimize the state's generous "hospitality" in order to minimize losses in any forthcoming lawsuit.

 

[Marzipan]

Back when it happened that RL was busted & this all first came out, i wondered if maybe RL had something like a “hall pass” with local LE
Like say they wouldn’t hassle him about say short runs to necessary spots like the dump. but he knew a longer unnecessary drive would be a real problem
just a possibility JMO

I can totally picture this. I’m totally harsh on drunk drivers but I can see this kind of pragmatic understanding making sense, especially for an older guy.
Also, I’m not sure I put a lot of stock into the LE/FBI claim about the alibi. Possible they embellished that a bit to get the warrant? Maybe “accidentally” misunderstood the cousin’s timeframe?

 

[ss90]

One thing that might have played into that is that in large group situations, if you're just a grunt, a cog in the wheel taking statements, one of many, you might inadvertently inject your own perception of the sense of importance of a witness or statement, and pass that up the chain. Humans are fallible. So say Mr. CO has RA on his list of people to follow up on, takes a statement, and gets it into his head that RA is either (a) a harmless goofball that doesn't fit the profile, or (b) is a lonely confused guy that's trying to inject himself into the investigation for some exaggerated sense of self-importance. Or (c), maybe at the time of that interview, LE already had a very strong feeling it was somebody else, and this lesser character didn't bubble up enough to overcome that tunnel vision. And then, as has been said many times, that info is lost among the thousands of other tips for whatever reason. I've been involved in large-scale events where the fact-gathering is farmed out to a large number of people, and it's really easy for something to get glossed over in those situations.

I really hope that whatever happened that caused that first interview to be ignored or forgotten is scrutinized really closely at trial, because I feel like there's a real opportunity for a teaching moment here, a potential for improved processes. I'm pretty hesitant to throw dirt on LE this early in the game, at least until we know who specifically screwed up and how. LE is not a monolith, it's a bustling collective of people fighting competing priorities.

I can absolutely see all those scenarios happening but still wouldn't that one piece of info cross the CO's mind at some point, at least those several times the case seemed to have been stuck. That is, again, assuming he knew about the witnesses on the trails and Allen being only male there. I guess there's that possibility the CO was not let into that sort of evidence.

Anyway I'm not accusing anyone, just curious and likewise hope it's going to be looked into.

 

[Bergmann]

Do people believe this will make it to trial before summer?

I'd be amazed if this was even tried in 2023.

 

[Forpsy]

I think it is possible that the CO that RA talked to just filed the report away, you know,
just stuck it in his pocket, never thinking that a friend of his (assuming they were friends which I am) would have done something like this. And if they had not gone back and took another look they might not have ever uncovered what happened. JMO

 

[Boxer]

One thing that might have played into that is that in large group situations, if you're just a grunt, a cog in the wheel taking statements, one of many, you might inadvertently inject your own perception of the sense of importance of a witness or statement, and pass that up the chain. Humans are fallible. So say Mr. CO has RA on his list of people to follow up on, takes a statement, and gets it into his head that RA is either (a) a harmless goofball that doesn't fit the profile, or (b) is a lonely confused guy that's trying to inject himself into the investigation for some exaggerated sense of self-importance. Or (c), maybe at the time of that interview, LE already had a very strong feeling it was somebody else, and this lesser character didn't bubble up enough to overcome that tunnel vision. And then, as has been said many times, that info is lost among the thousands of other tips for whatever reason. I've been involved in large-scale events where the fact-gathering is farmed out to a large number of people, and it's really easy for something to get glossed over in those situations.

I really hope that whatever happened that caused that first interview to be ignored or forgotten is scrutinized really closely at trial, because I feel like there's a real opportunity for a teaching moment here, a potential for improved processes. I'm pretty hesitant to throw dirt on LE this early in the game, at least until we know who specifically screwed up and how. LE is not a monolith, it's a bustling collective of people fighting competing priorities.

A DNR CO is law enforcement. Reports are made and given to supervisors. More people are involved here. The COs LE supervisor and the CCSO to whom the CO should have given the report.
When When no CCSO or iSP detective followed up with him or her as it was a murder investigation, MOO any competent officer would have checked up on their report being received.

Indiana Conservation Officer Salary & Benefits

Indiana Conservation Officer Salary and Benefits

www.in.gov

 

[Boxer]

COs graduate from police academy (ILEA,) along with other deputies and police officers.

 

[Megnut]

I fear it was really this simple-- they were looking for anyone who had seen the girls.

RA said he didn't see them.

But thankfully we've got witnesses who place him on target.

Justice is slow but it is coming.

JMO

 

[electricuncalm]

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One thing that might have played into that is that in large group situations, if you're just a grunt, a cog in the wheel taking statements, one of many, you might inadvertently inject your own perception of the sense of importance of a witness or statement, and pass that up the chain. Humans are fallible. So say Mr. CO has RA on his list of people to follow up on, takes a statement, and gets it into his head that RA is either (a) a harmless goofball that doesn't fit the profile, or (b) is a lonely confused guy that's trying to inject himself into the investigation for some exaggerated sense of self-importance. Or (c), maybe at the time of that interview, LE already had a very strong feeling it was somebody else, and this lesser character didn't bubble up enough to overcome that tunnel vision. And then, as has been said many times, that info is lost among the thousands of other tips for whatever reason. I've been involved in large-scale events where the fact-gathering is farmed out to a large number of people, and it's really easy for something to get glossed over in those situations.

I really hope that whatever happened that caused that first interview to be ignored or forgotten is scrutinized really closely at trial, because I feel like there's a real opportunity for a teaching moment here, a potential for improved processes. I'm pretty hesitant to throw dirt on LE this early in the game, at least until we know who specifically screwed up and how. LE is not a monolith, it's a bustling collective of people fighting competing priorities.

I think it’s worth noting at this point that (again, I am only speaking of my own experience in indiana and knowledge of indiana law) dnr officers have much greater power than city / county / state law enforcement and are not compelled to work with such local agencies. If the land is dnr covered land that an incident occurred at, our local dnr officer usually will not allow local le to be involved in any way shape or form. Conversely, if the land an incident occurs on didn’t occur on dnr covered land and there’s no reason for dnr to be involved (killing a human instead of an illegally poached deer), then dnr will rarely have anything to do with it.

I suspect ra knew the dnr officer well enough to make a smart choice when it came to who ra chose to give his statement to. whether it was friendship or a particularly uncooperative with local le dnr officer, I think ra knew his statement would be buried for a significant time, if not forever.

Sorry, I managed to mess this up with the quoting and don’t know how to delete and start again.

 

[Laughing]

I'm curious for those that think there will be a delay, what will the delay(s) be? Why the delay in your mind?

Because RA's defense attorney(s) will do their job -- and often that job is delay, delay, delay.

 

[mrjitty]

I’m just spitballing, trying to examine any possibility. I have some theories, one of which includes kak being the linchpin here, and the biggest mistake le made being what they already admitted to- they fumbled hard with kak. I’m not a huge believer in a lot of coincidences occurring around the same event, and from the official information we have - it seems like it would be a heck of a lot of coincidences for ra to not be bg and not be tied to kak somehow.

RSBM

Isn't there a danger of a category error here though? In assuming there is indeed any coincidence?

eg if the girls had been killed by a drunk driver, no one would think it was coincidental - a different type of offender

Here we see coincidence because the catfisher is a sex offender, but if KAK is a non-violent type of sex offender, then is there anything actually coincidental?

While the catfishing would raise suspicion, I guess investigation would determine the type of offender KAK is.

 

[TL4S]

RSBM

Isn't there a danger of a category error here though? In assuming there is indeed any coincidence?

eg if the girls had been killed by a drunk driver, no one would think it was coincidental - a different type of offender

Here we see coincidence because the catfisher is a sex offender, but if KAK is a non-violent type of sex offender, then is there anything actually coincidental?

While the catfishing would raise suspicion, I guess investigation would determine the type of offender KAK is.

My personal concern with the catfishing coincidence is that it establishes a risky behavior by at least one of the victims, which was to actively communicate online with a male unknown to her, possibly in an inappropriate manner, and put her location on SM (IG, SC, etc.). Unintentionally, she had made herself a target for certain crimes, and KAK represents one online predator who found her. That behavior didn't necessarily up her chances of being killed by a drunk driver, but could it have upped her chances of having another online predator find her (or be led to her) and commit a crime against her? Idk, but it is concerning to me.

 

[Salah11]

Because RA's defense attorney(s) will do their job -- and often that job is delay, delay, delay.

Which if I was innocent I would absolutely hate and tell them to do their job quickly.

Why on earth if innocent would RA want to spend years awaiting trial especially at his age.

 

[Seattle1]

3 mysteries in Delphi murders that must be solved after Richard Allen's arrest

FIVE years after the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German, a suspect has finally been arrested in the biggest breakthrough of the case so far. But there are still multiple mysteries that must …

www.the-sun.com

 

[Salah11]

3 mysteries in Delphi murders that must be solved after Richard Allen's arrest

FIVE years after the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German, a suspect has finally been arrested in the biggest breakthrough of the case so far. But there are still multiple mysteries that must …

www.the-sun.com

also did not realize what my wife and I’s immediate financial situation was going to .


Both worked full time and owned their own home so I find it incredibly strange that he claims they are so strapped for cash. I am
wondering if he liked to gamble and drink their money away.

Moo