Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #162

[TL4S]

other possible victims ?
there is only the teen girl witness who was with others and was leaving ..she wasnt even a choice
he was heading towards the killing site

You're right. Those three girls were likely not viable options due to their location.

 

[Boxer]

The other possibility is that maybe the killer left the scene of the crime before Libby started to receive any phone calls.

The idea that maybe the killer has some sort of hearing problem is one of the reasons I thought the murderer in this case might have some sort of disability. The answer could be as simple as Liberty German kept the sound off on her phone when it received any sort of message.

Without knowing what the police know, it is more guessing and speculation.

Yes, maybe always on vibrate which maybe didn’t register enough noise buzzing.

 

[JosieMae]

I've given up trying to understand why the man who killed those 2 young girls did what he did. I've concluded that we can never know what is in the the deranged hearts and minds of people who are capable of such things. It's possible these evil scumbags don't even understand their own motivations.

 

[TL4S]

Motion reveals prosecutor’s reasons for sealing court documents in Delphi murder case

The motion included six reasons McLeland wanted the probable cause affidavit and other court documents related to Allen kept under seal. They boiled down to protecting the public interest and preventing information from being released that could “damage an ongoing murder investigation,” although the motion didn’t elaborate on the latter point.

The state argued:

• That the public interest will be secured by the sealing of the record;
• That dissemination of the information contained in the record will create serious and imminent danger to the public interest;
• That any prejudicial effect created by dissemination of the information cannot be avoided by any reasonable method other than sealing of the record;
• That there is substantial probability that sealing of the record will be effective in protecting the public interest against the perceived danger;
• That the public interest will be substantially served by prohibiting access for the reason that the release of the information might damage an ongoing murder investigation; or;
• That access or dissemination of the Court Record will create significant risk of substantial harm to the requestor, other persons, or the general public.

 

[TL4S]

Motion reveals prosecutor’s reasons for sealing court documents in Delphi murder case

In addition to making the previously sealed motion available, Gull granted a request this week from the state to protect discovery materials from public consumption. The judge’s order stated that one copy of discovery material may be provided to Allen’s defense attorneys and made available to any experts or investigators involved in building their client’s defense case.

No unauthorized parties may have access to that material, and it’s incumbent upon the defense to comply with the order.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Motion reveals prosecutor’s reasons for sealing court documents in Delphi murder case

In addition to making the previously sealed motion available, Gull granted a request this week from the state to protect discovery materials from public consumption. The judge’s order stated that one copy of discovery material may be provided to Allen’s defense attorneys and made available to any experts or investigators involved in building their client’s defense case.

No unauthorized parties may have access to that material, and it’s incumbent upon the defense to comply with the order.

What's this (from your link)? Have we seen anything in any of the released/redacted docs that did what he argued?

Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland argued that releasing the probable cause affidavit and other court documents related to Richard Allen would “create serious and imminent danger to the public interest” and possibly damage an “ongoing murder investigation.”

 

[minazoe]

why would there be serious and imminent danger to the public interest..??? WHAT?????? mOO

 

[Prime8]

ISP: More audio recovered from slain Delphi teen's phone

“We are getting closer every day. I know that is cliché but we are.”

www.indystar.com

According to this article, the phone was found at the crime scene. See last paragraph.

More specifically it says "...with the girls at the crime scene." The crime itself is quite large and would encompass the point of the kidnapping, any path they walked, where they were murdered and anywhere BG dumped or moved anything related to the crime.

 

[Prime8]

A few thoughts...

• No one ever knows what's going on in the mind of people, even those you know well.
• A lot of people have very good self-control, which keeps us from moving forward with thoughts that may be harmful to ourselves or others.
• I suspect most of us would be surprised and sometimes horrified if we knew the fantasies of our friends and family.
• Most substances (drugs, alcohol, etc.) typically just lower people's inhibitions, they don't create actions out of nowhere. Example - if someone only hits their wife when they are drunk, they want to hit her when they aren't drunk, they just have more self-control when sober.
  • That's not to say that you can't be so impaired you no longer are conscious of what you are consenting to. But, there's no suggestion that someone pushed BG to murder, he made that choice on his own. I don't think he could have been so impaired he had no control of his actions AND commit these murders without any forethought or purposeful action.

 

[TL4S]

What's this (from your link)? Have we seen anything in any of the released/redacted docs that did what he argued?

Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland argued that releasing the probable cause affidavit and other court documents related to Richard Allen would “create serious and imminent danger to the public interest” and possibly damage an “ongoing murder investigation.”

I'm completely guessing, but some of those bullet points talked about "public interest," which sort of feels more like reference to LE being able to do their job, as public officers, in the murder investigation. That could be in regards to RA alone, but at the PC, NMcL said they were not done investigating and that they were going to keep looking to see if anyone else was involved. I know a lot of folks here feel adamant that there's nobody else, but LE and the prosecutor have stated both publicly and to the court that there could be others involved. It's the last two bullet points that concern me, because they sound more like actual threats of "substantial harm" towards the prosecutor, others, or the general public. What does that mean? That sounds like LE has not ruled out the possibility of physical harm, imo, brought to others by someone who must be alive and on the streets. Just a possibility.

• That the public interest will be substantially served by prohibiting access for the reason that the release of the information might damage an ongoing murder investigation; or;
• That access or dissemination of the Court Record will create significant risk of substantial harm to the requestor, other persons, or the general public.

 

[TL4S]

What's this (from your link)? Have we seen anything in any of the released/redacted docs that did what he argued?

Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland argued that releasing the probable cause affidavit and other court documents related to Richard Allen would “create serious and imminent danger to the public interest” and possibly damage an “ongoing murder investigation.”

In regards to nothing we've seen in the released documents being a threat to public interest, it might be something we just don't recognize, but another involved party might. For example, GH's video call from a man who saw a second car parked along the road. Or maybe a connection to the source of YBG sketch. If somebody else was indeed involved and in the area that day, they might now know about the HH camera footage, and the witnesses, any of which might have seen something linking that person, as well. It didn't have to be said outright in the PCA for an accomplice to know there is a problem... JMO.

ETA: Also, if LE truly believes RA is THE man, then anything jeopardizing the case against him in court, which might ultimately end in acquittal, would put a murderer back on the streets, putting everyone at risk.

 

[TL4S]

So the judge granted McL's request for only one copy of the discovery to the defense, with access only to RA, his attorneys and experts. Is that typical?

 

[raja]

In regards to nothing we've seen in the released documents being a threat to public interest, it might be something we just don't recognize, but another involved party might. For example, GH's video call from a man who saw a second car parked along the road. Or maybe a connection to the source of YBG sketch. If somebody else was indeed involved and in the area that day, they might now know about the HH camera footage, and the witnesses, any of which might have seen something linking that person, as well. It didn't have to be said outright in the PCA for an accomplice to know there is a problem... JMO.

ETA: Also, if LE truly believes RA is THE man, then anything jeopardizing the case against him in court, which might ultimately end in acquittal, would put a murderer back on the streets, putting everyone at risk.

Call me confused but why would some one else be allowed to see the discovery info other than the defense? Why would the defense want to out any of the witnesses to the public? I could however understand if the defense would want to let it be known about another person that could be the murderer. My moo would be another individual besides RA is being investigated.

 

[TheVisual]

@Trebor5591 I respect your opinion, but I have to say I definitely am more aligned with @TL4S line of thinking.

Even if you think RA would not just suddenly kill some young girls out of nowhere, and was armed because that’s common in Indiana, it’s equally incredible to me that a man with allegedly no plans to murder would react so violently to teenage snickering. And of course we have no one to tell us if anything like this even took place.

Unless RA ever says “oh yeah, I was minding my own business, then these girls mouthed off at me, so I lost it,” we will never know.

IMO I cannot agree that murdering two teenagers just because of a flippant or mocking comment is, as you say, a “reasonable” and “logical” theory.

MOO someone so volatile as to do that is someone who was mentally ready to kill. No “normal” person would slaughter two young girls, and commit all the details listed by @TL4S, for such a trifling reason.

Even if he is married and has a daughter. In fact, a man with a grown daughter should already be familiar with how teenaged girls can act at times.

IMO then, no excuses for him.

Unless his daughter wants nothing to do with him because he's a narcissist that expects her to fall in line.This might touch him off. It was around Valentines Day, a day he might try to communicate with her and say "Happy Valentines Day " in a text and she either didn't answer him or if she did she could of said " F off ". And that's all it took for him to rage at some teenage girls giggling at him.

 

[MistyWaters]

I'm completely guessing, but some of those bullet points talked about "public interest," which sort of feels more like reference to LE being able to do their job, as public officers, in the murder investigation. That could be in regards to RA alone, but at the PC, NMcL said they were not done investigating and that they were going to keep looking to see if anyone else was involved. I know a lot of folks here feel adamant that there's nobody else, but LE and the prosecutor have stated both publicly and to the court that there could be others involved. It's the last two bullet points that concern me, because they sound more like actual threats of "substantial harm" towards the prosecutor, others, or the general public. What does that mean? That sounds like LE has not ruled out the possibility of physical harm, imo, brought to others by someone who must be alive and on the streets. Just a possibility.

• That the public interest will be substantially served by prohibiting access for the reason that the release of the information might damage an ongoing murder investigation; or;
• That access or dissemination of the Court Record will create significant risk of substantial harm to the requestor, other persons, or the general public.

I think it pertains to anyone associated who has received death threats.

Judge condemns public ‘blood lust’ over Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen

Carroll County Judge Benjamin Diener decries morbid interest in the case for decision

www.independent.co.uk

“…..An Indiana Judge concerned about his family’s safety has recused himself from presiding over the Delphi murder case…..”

 

[TL4S]

I think it pertains to anyone associated who has received death threats.

Judge condemns public ‘blood lust’ over Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen

Carroll County Judge Benjamin Diener decries morbid interest in the case for decision

www.independent.co.uk

“…..An Indiana Judge concerned about his family’s safety has recused himself from presiding over the Delphi murder case…..”

I wondered that, too. The document was filed on Oct. 28th (don't know the date it was written), which was only days before Diener recused himself. So did McL know about the threats when he wrote it? But it would sort of mean McL and others in the general public had also been threatened by then. Hmm...

Delphi Docs: Prosecutor Believed Unsealing Charging Docs Would Damage the Case

 

[MistyWaters]

I wondered that, too. The document was filed on Oct. 28th (don't know the date it was written), which was only days before Diener recused himself. So did McL know about the threats when he wrote it? But it would sort of mean McL and others in the general public had also been threatened by then. Hmm...

Delphi Docs: Prosecutor Believed Unsealing Charging Docs Would Damage the Case

Received or maybe just expected to receive death threats, sadly what commonly occurs with anyone involved in a high profile news event in this day and age. I’d be surprised if only the judge and his family was solely targeted. JMO

 

[Schatz]

Heya. Would love to hear one of our verified legal expert’s interpretation of the specific point “That dissemination of the information contained in the record will create serious and imminent danger to the public interest;”

Motion reveals prosecutor’s reasons for sealing court documents in Delphi murder case

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. – We now have some additional insight into the reasons Carroll County’s prosecutor asked a judge to seal records in the Delphi murder case. Among other things, Carroll County P…

fox59.com

 

[Schatz]

Also, do we still think this case is exceedingly “complex” as LE has stated for years? Complex or just a bunch of mess-ups along the way? I basically stopped paying attn when RA was arrested. The threads got too crazy for me to keep up with, and RA just didn’t fit the “complex” narrative for me. Thoughts?

From link: “This case is unlikely any that I’ve seen in an almost 40-year career,” Superintendent Carter tells WIBC’s Hammer & Nigel, “there are so many different tentacles to this. Its very complex.”

A "Complex" Case - ISP Superintendent Doug Carter Talks Richard Allen, Kegan Kline, "Police Sources" & What You Should Be Allowed to Know

DELPHI, Ind. -- Richard Allen, Kegan Kline, public documents and "police sources" - Superintendent Doug Carter with Indiana State Police covered it all when discussing the 2017 Delphi murders investigation Tuesday.

wibc.com

 

[sandy_80]

Also, do we still think this case is exceedingly “complex” as LE has stated for years? Complex or just a bunch of mess-ups along the way? I basically stopped paying attn when RA was arrested. The threads got too crazy for me to keep up with, and RA just didn’t fit the “complex” narrative for me. Thoughts?

From link: “This case is unlikely any that I’ve seen in an almost 40-year career,” Superintendent Carter tells WIBC’s Hammer & Nigel, “there are so many different tentacles to this. Its very complex.”

A "Complex" Case - ISP Superintendent Doug Carter Talks Richard Allen, Kegan Kline, "Police Sources" & What You Should Be Allowed to Know

DELPHI, Ind. -- Richard Allen, Kegan Kline, public documents and "police sources" - Superintendent Doug Carter with Indiana State Police covered it all when discussing the 2017 Delphi murders investigation Tuesday.

wibc.com

do you think the manner of murder and victims and location and staging usual ? can you recall a similar case
its a very unusual case.. but this doesnt mean the investigation should have been this mess