Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #162

[Megnut]

For Witness #4 -
“AND covering the .55 mile trek in less than 6 minutes which seems near impossible??!”

^That is quite doable, an almost 11 minute per mile jog.

Power walk?

I'm curious to know if this is something she did frequently. Or ever. Before or after. Do we know?

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

Power walk?

I'm curious to know if this is something she did frequently. Or ever. Before or after. Do we know?

JMO

When i run at my slow pace - its around 5.20 per km

Walking at a decent pace is at least 10mins per km as a guide

So i think that timing would need to be actual running than walking

I suspect there is something wrong with the framing - but honestly i think I will just wait until the prelim to get excited about that level of detail as otherwise so much time can get wasted

 

[Megnut]

When i run at my slow pace - its around 5.20 per km

Walking at a decent pace is at least 10mins per km as a guide

So i think that timing would need to be actual running than walking

I suspect there is something wrong with the framing - but honestly i think I will just wait until the prelim to get excited about that level of detail as otherwise so much time can get wasted

Could we simply be mistaken about the point at which she saw him? If he was on the platform, could she have been farther back on the trail? Saw him through a clearing, for example. Might account for her seeing him on the bridge but him possibly not seeing her... Might shorten up her loop, matching up the times and pace better.

Just a thought. JMO

 

[mrjitty]

Could we simply be mistaken about the point at which she saw him? If he was on the platform, could she have been farther back on the trail? Saw him through a clearing, for example. Might account for her seeing him on the bridge but him possibly not seeing her... Might shorten up her loop, matching up the times and pace better.

Just a thought. JMO

I have a feeling we'll get all this info in more detail at the prelim

 

[TL4S]

When i run at my slow pace - its around 5.20 per km

Walking at a decent pace is at least 10mins per km as a guide

So i think that timing would need to be actual running than walking

I suspect there is something wrong with the framing - but honestly i think I will just wait until the prelim to get excited about that level of detail as otherwise so much time can get wasted

I agree. It's kind of like how for 5 1/2 years we all believed KG dropped off the girls at 1:38, when in actuality, camera footage put it at closer to 1:49. A nearly 10 minute discrepancy we talked about because we didn't know the evidence.

 

[TL4S]

I'm not usually one to post articles from The Sun, but this seems like a fairly good overview of the case, along with quotes from a former FBI agent out of Indiana. Nothing new, but interesting nonetheless. Sorry if this has already been posted and I missed it.

Stark admission by Delphi murders suspect’s wife sparked ‘domino effect’

 

[Boxer]

Having been around the houses on extremely excruciating spreadsheeted detail on the Pistorius timeline, I am not tempted to get into the weeds on that until we get more detailed witness evidence and the prosecution/defence theories. The exact details in evidence are what matter rather than what is in the PCA.

To me the broad sweep of the evidence is more important at this stage i.e

1. the 3 juveniles and RA report seeing each other - which gives us some decent timings

2. The woman walker sees bridge guy, then turns and sees the victims a short time later

On any read, it is difficult to see where RA could have been, so as not to have seen woman walker and also not see the victims, and also not see Bridge Guy

I am most interested how he attempted to explain all this, in the course of 3 interviews, more than I am in the PCA itself.

IMO the evolution of his story will be key.

I watched a couple of the YT videos that people have made walking from Mears lot to the bridge.

After the trail bends and the straightens to go forward straight onto the bridge, it’s easy to see that of one is standing on the 1st platform which sticks out on the west side of the bridge and the walker was along the west side of the trail, the creek side, the person in the platform would only see the walker maybe through trees.

Like a person standing back in a recess of a long hallway can’t see the near walls of the hall without sticking their head out to look down the hall,

 

[pseudo_hum]

I watched a couple of the YT videos that people have made walking from Mears lot to the bridge.

After the trail bends and the straightens to go forward straight onto the bridge, it’s easy to see that of one is standing on the 1st platform which sticks out on the west side of the bridge and the walker was along the west side of the trail, the creek side, the person in the platform would only see the walker maybe through trees.

Like a person standing back in a recess of a long hallway can’t see the near walls of the hall without sticking the head out into the hall.

Agreed, I have walked that trail on my travels through Indiana. Obviously no leaves are in the way that time of year. A person, as you described, could not positively identify the person, but they could offer up a clothing inventory of the suspect. A height of the person. And, no other male was seen anywhere. IMO.

 

[Megnut]

I watched a couple of the YT videos that people have made walking from Mears lot to the bridge.

After the trail bends and the straightens to go forward straight onto the bridge, it’s easy to see that of one is standing on the 1st platform which sticks out on the west side of the bridge and the walker was along the west side of the trail, the creek side, the person in the platform would only see the walker maybe through trees.

Like a person standing back in a recess of a long hallway can’t see the near walls of the hall without sticking their head out to look down the hall,

So in theory, she could have seen him then too, seems like.

JMO

 

[somequestions]

I'm not usually one to post articles from The Sun, but this seems like a fairly good overview of the case, along with quotes from a former FBI agent out of Indiana. Nothing new, but interesting nonetheless. Sorry if this has already been posted and I missed it.

Stark admission by Delphi murders suspect’s wife sparked ‘domino effect’

If there is DNA evidence from Abigail Williams or Liberty German on Richard Allen's jacket, that would definitely change how people view this case. I think the presumption of guilt would be much higher. Maybe he was so confident after seeing the sketches that came out that he thought police were looking for the wrong person? This is why he kept such incriminating evidence like the jacket?

I am still confused about Richard Allen's height, 5'4" or 5'7"? I cannot figure out the height of bridge guy without doing measurements of the bridge and the angles. Overall, I think a lot of people would rather have had a probable cause affidavit that had some solid proof that Richard Allen was at the crime scene with the girls. The bullet evidence is ok depending on the research and which expert you believe.

When former prosecutor Ives said there was so much evidence left out at the crime scene, I thought the probable cause affidavit would have more in it so the general public could be sure police had the right person.

 

[Boxer]

So in theory, she could have seen him then too, seems like.

JMO

MOO The walker would be able to see the platform person easier than the person on the platform can see a person on the trail. A bit like a blinds, the person on the platform is in the open a the ordinary along the creek side of the trail is behind brush.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

I agree. If GH could identify from a pic released the place on the bridge where the man took a step and Libby stood with her cellphone camera, I’m shocked the FBI, not even NASA, seemingly don’t have technology to determine his approximate height comparing him to the height of the surrounding trees and branches. It’s not as if he’s standing nowhere near anything in a wide open prairie.

RSBM

The first thing I noticed was how small RA/BG’s feet were/are. Which made me question the height that LE said he (approximately) was.
My son, who’s in his mid-20s, is only 5’3” and has small feet, which is why I believe that I picked up on RA/BG’s shoe size so quickly.

IMO I’m actually quite surprised that the LE specialists didn’t pick up on this, too.


moo ymmv jmo

ETA: It’s neither here nor there at this point but I can’t help but wonder if LE had picked up on this sooner if an arrest would have happened sooner.

 

[somequestions]

I don't think her sighting will be in danger personally.

She reported it years ago in a sworn statement, and it is backed by security camera footage and perhaps digital evidence.

IMO the problem is rather for the defence to explain away her evidence - which creates a dilemna

1. If she saw RA on the bridge, how did he not see the girls

2. If she saw Bridge Guy (the real killer) and not RA, where was he?

I expect a lot of hand waving on this, but the fatal mistakes are likely in RA's police interviews.

All good points considering once you get to the Monon High Bridge the only way you can walk is back UNLESS you cross the bridge and leave some other way from the trail area.

 

[TL4S]

If there is DNA evidence from Abigail Williams or Liberty German on Richard Allen's jacket, that would definitely change how people view this case. I think the presumption of guilt would be much higher. Maybe he was so confident after seeing the sketches that came out that he thought police were looking for the wrong person? This is why he kept such incriminating evidence like the jacket?

I am still confused about Richard Allen's height, 5'4" or 5'7"? I cannot figure out the height of bridge guy without doing measurements of the bridge and the angles. Overall, I think a lot of people would rather have had a probable cause affidavit that had some solid proof that Richard Allen was at the crime scene with the girls. The bullet evidence is ok depending on the research and which expert you believe.

When former prosecutor Ives said there was so much evidence left out at the crime scene, I thought the probable cause affidavit would have more in it so the general public could be sure police had the right person.

I'm still unsure about RA's actual height, as well!

MS podcast had a defense attorney on lately who was comparing the RA PCA with the Idaho murders BK PCA. I'm sorry I can't recall which episode it was, but he basically said that oftentimes, prosecutors write the PCAs tailored toward the individual judge who will be reading it. He said some judges want the entire case laid out, while others do not. The original Carroll County judge who granted the RA PCA potentially did not need much evidence, which NMcL knew, so he laid out a bare bones case to preserve more evidence. Just a thought. If they sincerely do have reason to believe others are involved, my guess is they wanted to hold back as much as possible.

 

[Yemelyan]

I'm still unsure about RA's actual height, as well!

MS podcast had a defense attorney on lately who was comparing the RA PCA with the Idaho murders BK PCA. I'm sorry I can't recall which episode it was, but he basically said that oftentimes, prosecutors write the PCA's tailored to the individual judge who will be reading it. He said some judges want the entire case laid out, while others do not. The original Carroll County judge who granted the RA PCA potentially did not need much evidence, which NMcL knew, so he laid out a bare bones case to preserve more evidence. Just a thought. If they sincerely do have reason to believe others are involved, my guess is they wanted to hold back as much as possible.

Great point..the purpose of the PCA is not to lay out every single shred of evidence so that the public can be sure the police came to the right conclusion. There are strategic legal reasons some information is held back in certain cases.

 

[MistyWaters]

RSBM

The first thing I noticed was how small RA/BG’s feet were/are. Which made me question the height that LE said he (approximately) was.
My son, who’s in his mid-20s, is only 5’3” and has small feet, which is why I believe that I picked up on RA/BG’s shoe size so quickly.

IMO I’m actually quite surprised that the LE specialists didn’t pick up on this, too.


moo ymmv jmo

ETA: It’s neither here nor there at this point but I can’t help but wonder if LE had picked up on this sooner if an arrest would have happened sooner.

Yes too late in being helpful to identifying a possible suspect. But I wonder if something about height may still be introduced during the eventual trial. Analysis of his height from the video image by an expert witness might be helpful to the prosecution (or the defence I suppose) to support testimony of the witness who saw the man and remembered he was about a head taller than she.

If not, if I was a juror I would be left wondering why that aspect would be intentionally excluded given RA is obviously much shorter than average, very noticeable by observing him walk accompanied by jail guards.

 

[Megnut]

Yes too late in being helpful to identifying a possible suspect. But I wonder if something about height may still be introduced during the eventual trial. Analysis of his height from the video image by an expert witness might be helpful to the prosecution (or the defence I suppose) to support testimony of the witness who saw the man and remembered he was about a head taller than she.

If not, if I was a juror I would be left wondering why that aspect would be intentionally excluded given RA is obviously much shorter than average, very noticeable by observing him walk accompanied by jail guards.

View attachment 399309

Don't forget the possibility of height enhancers in his shoes. Hello, T om Cruise.

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Don't forget the possibility of height enhancers in his shoes. Hello, T om Cruise.

JMO

Maybe hiding in plain sight causes shrinkage.

 

[MistyWaters]

Don't forget the possibility of height enhancers in his shoes. Hello, T om Cruise.

JMO

Yes, good point. LE should be able to determine if RA regularly wore height enhancers and how much they added to his height. If not through interviews with the wife, then how tall did he appear at work.

 

[mrjitty]

All good points considering once you get to the Monon High Bridge the only way you can walk is back UNLESS you cross the bridge and leave some other way from the trail area.

Yes - this simple fact seems fatal to the defence, or at the very least needs the victims to go off the trial for some minutes