IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #165

[Slawsb]

That's what I'm thinking too...

we dont know any order of time the video that was released

 

[Vern]

If we assume for a second that the reason Liberty German took the video because she saw a gun, the question is when did she first see a gun?

This is what is strange. Was Libby that observant that if the suspect started walking back towards the bench on the trail, as her and Abby passed him, she noticed the gun in his jacket when others who passed the suspect did not? Then 5 or 6 minutes later when he turned around to go back to the bridge she started to videotape him from that far away because that is how she knew about the gun?

How could Richard Allen not have passed Abigail Williams and Liberty German on the trail?

If the killer was already on the southeast side of the bridge, maybe this abduction did not happen over the course of 5-10 minutes like I thought, but within a few minutes as this person came up onto the bridge, Libby clearly saw the gun in his jacket as he started to walk down the Monon High Bridge towards Abby. He passed Abby, but then realized no one was around so he turned around to follow Abby. Maybe even Abby saw the gun in his jacket too? The suspect did not take 5 or 6 minutes to think about it.

Maybe the first time Liberty German saw a gun was when the killer passed the girls on the end of the bridge because the killer came from that southeast side of the bridge? And if Liberty German did not see the gun in the jacket on the main trail as she was walking towards the Monon High Bridge with Abigail Williams, how could she spot it from 70 feet away?

IMO, I think he hid in the woods and watched them go onto the bridge and waited for them to make it past 1/2 way. Then, all of a sudden here's a guy on the bridge and coming accross it so their only option is to carry on fully across the bridge, wait for him to then come off to head back over themsleves OR to head back and have to pass him on the bridge on their way back. IIRC, it was the first time one of them had been on the bridge, so probably felt more comfortable fully crossing then waiting for him to get off so they could head back ... unbeknownst to them that he had no intention of allowing them to go back.

Then once he was close enough he pulled the weapon out, c.ocks it, then orders them down the hill. I think Abby was still not fully off the bridge yet, but heading that way when he pulled the gun out so her back was to him. Thus Libby comments about him having a gun when she sees him pull it out. Abby's back would have still been to him.

Libby had taken a photo of Abby out on the platform --- there's no BG in the background. They hadn't seen him. The video is 45 seconds long. I think that Libby started recording the video exactly because they hadn't seen him/passed him on the trails then all of a sudden he's clipping along the bridge coming up hard behind them. That's weird and had to be frightening.

 

[TL4S]

The odds of this happening twice, especially in a row, are astronomical. That would be indicative of a faulty weapon and not a mere misfire or jam. They seized the weapon during the search so I suspect it is functionning properly and was not faulty.

I'm akin to go with Occam on this one ... he never intended to fire the weapon; it was his intended means of controlling his target. It was broad daylight in a place the public goes to (The Bridge) ... and anyone up on the trails would have heard any shots being fired. Knives can be silent. The "cutting instrument" was his intended means of causing death.

Cycling the round would have left identifiable markings on the round (and so would ejection of the casing had he actually fired the round off). Cycling of rounds through a weapon leaves unique and identifiable characterisitics. These identifiable & unique characteristics were used to convict Dianne Downs way back in the early 80s and they didn't even recover the gun in that case - just a cycled round that she left in her house where the marking matched those on the casings found in her car after she shot her children. They are not "new science" and Ballistic Experts can/will testify to them. They've already stated in the released documents that the round was cycled through his gun ... thus the markings are from cycling it through vice it misfiring.

I do fully agree with everything you said here. And likely there were not two misfires. But in my mind, there are also some unanswered questions, like, how well did RA maintain his gun (cleaning), could the firing pin or spring have been damaged or dirty? There are other questions about the significance of that unspent round, like did it contain RA's DNA, or victim DNA? A misfired round would still be ejected and have ejection marks, and would still be considered unspent, imo. NMcL didn't need to put anything more in the PCA than he did, and while a lot of folks said the unspent round is moot based on ejection mark ballistics not being strong enough evidence, is it possible there were more unique markings on that unspent round then what NMcL included in the PCAs? That's why I suggest the firing pin damage. It's only a random suggestion. I find it odd that RA had one .40 round in a keepsake box in his bedroom. It just makes me wonder...

 

[Yemelyan]

If they LE/FBI now have RA as their suspect and assumed killer, they could have told us the PROFILE, they once created, IMO.

I don't think they will release the full profile for many years, if ever. LE may talk about bits and pieces of it on the record if a documentary, long-form article or book eventually is produced years down the line (and it will probably be pretty similar to what we've already been told - "we felt that the person responsible may have tried to change their appearance after the crime," etc)

Two main reasons full profiles aren't released even after a crime is charged and tried:

1. A profile isn't evidence, it's a tool used to generate leads and guide investigators in how they look at potential persons of interest.
2. It likely contains very graphic information about offender behavior that I personally believe the authorities want to keep private out of respect for the families.

These are just two reasons IMO, I'm sure other factors are involved as well.

 

[TL4S]

we dont know any order of time the video that was released

Do you mean the 43 second video on L's phone? We do know it was at 2:13 and that after BG said, "G...DTH," they proceeded down the hill and the video ended. That's from the PCAs. And now we know he chambered a round on the gun before one of the girls said, "gun," per the newly unsealed documents. Is that the video you meant?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Do we think he was still standing on the bridge when the gun sound was made?

 

[Megnut]

If we assume for a second that the reason Liberty German took the video because she saw a gun, the question is when did she first see a gun?

This is what is strange. Was Libby that observant that if the suspect started walking back towards the bench on the trail, as her and Abby passed him, she noticed the gun in his jacket when others who passed the suspect did not? Then 5 or 6 minutes later when he turned around to go back to the bridge she started to videotape him from that far away because that is how she knew about the gun?

How could Richard Allen not have passed Abigail Williams and Liberty German on the trail?

If the killer was already on the southeast side of the bridge, maybe this abduction did not happen over the course of 5-10 minutes like I thought, but within a few minutes as this person came up onto the bridge, Libby clearly saw the gun in his jacket as he started to walk down the Monon High Bridge towards Abby. He passed Abby, but then realized no one was around so he turned around to follow Abby. Maybe even Abby saw the gun in his jacket too? The suspect did not take 5 or 6 minutes to think about it.

Maybe the first time Liberty German saw a gun was when the killer passed the girls on the end of the bridge because the killer came from that southeast side of the bridge? And if Liberty German did not see the gun in the jacket on the main trail as she was walking towards the Monon High Bridge with Abigail Williams, how could she spot it from 70 feet away?

Personally, I think he saw them and they saw him right at about the mouth of the bridge, he would've appeared to be leaving, they were heading on to the bridge. He may have said something, said nothing, stared, didn't stare, just something that conveyed weirdness. His speed, the mask/gaiter -- just something. The girls continued on their merry way, it would seem, free of any sense of pending danger. No calls, no texts, no whatshouldwedos.

Meanwhile, RA knows that bridge. He knows how to traverse it. He knows exactly how long it takes to traverse it. He waited about exactly that long.... IMO it was ONLY a stroke of his sick good luck and their dreadful bad luck that he misjudged by a minute and didn't get himself captured in their earlier photo.

FWIW I don't think Libby spied the gun, neither girl, until he was revealing it. I think Libby started recording initially because she was a future photo journalist in the making. She saw something she wanted to record to show someone/people later. It's truly unfortunate that she didn't whisper a commentary. I do wonder what it would have been.

Directed? Like: Dad, do you know who this guy is? He said our names but I don't think I've ever seen him before?

Or: Wow, this guy's fast. He's like a leprechaun on these boards. You guys are going to laugh when you see this.

Or: I'm scared. He knows us. He's coming toward us. If something bad happens, I love you all. Gun.

I'm not yet convinced she knew they were in terminal danger yet. I think she was filming out of curiosity, perhaps bordering on concern.

IMO RA was cunning.

He had to be reasonably sure no one was left on the trail, the three juveniles on pace to reach parking and the lady, if ever he saw her, she was driving away as he was directing them down the hill. IMO he planned to take control of them at the far end of the bridge, exactly as he did.

I agree with others -- he didn't intend to fire the gun, had it for the intimidation factor. Controlling agent. I also don't think he intended EVER to be muddy and bloody. And I don't think he intended to kill them there. I think he planned to be in and out of the park in under two hours, walking in, walking out, neat and clean. I don't think walking along the thoroughfare was part of the plan, he just knew he couldn't go back on the trail, especially with blood on him.

I needn't get ahead of myself however. LE seized his computers. That's all being analyzed now, likely part of what remains sealed. If he had a double life, they've found it. And like all denizens of the underworld, if there's CSAM on there, his flavor du jour will no doubt be evident and illuminating and will likely give an indication of his motive that day.

I know I watch too much true crime, but two teens held against their will, plucked from a reserve with nary a trace, and held captive potentially for years, in a virtually undiscoverable remote location, yikes.

Jmo

 

[TL4S]

If we assume for a second that the reason Liberty German took the video because she saw a gun, the question is when did she first see a gun?

This is what is strange. Was Libby that observant that if the suspect started walking back towards the bench on the trail, as her and Abby passed him, she noticed the gun in his jacket when others who passed the suspect did not? Then 5 or 6 minutes later when he turned around to go back to the bridge she started to videotape him from that far away because that is how she knew about the gun?

How could Richard Allen not have passed Abigail Williams and Liberty German on the trail?

If the killer was already on the southeast side of the bridge, maybe this abduction did not happen over the course of 5-10 minutes like I thought, but within a few minutes as this person came up onto the bridge, Libby clearly saw the gun in his jacket as he started to walk down the Monon High Bridge towards Abby. He passed Abby, but then realized no one was around so he turned around to follow Abby. Maybe even Abby saw the gun in his jacket too? The suspect did not take 5 or 6 minutes to think about it.

Maybe the first time Liberty German saw a gun was when the killer passed the girls on the end of the bridge because the killer came from that southeast side of the bridge? And if Liberty German did not see the gun in the jacket on the main trail as she was walking towards the Monon High Bridge with Abigail Williams, how could she spot it from 70 feet away?

You know, it is striking to me that one of the juvenile witnesses said to another (right after passing him), "somebody's grumpy." That was in the recently released documents. To me, it proves that his demeanor was picked up on by the juveniles in the moment, and not just something they imagined in hindsight after they knew about the murders. So if they picked up on it, why might not have L and A if they passed him around the north end of the bridge? If he was sending off a "grumpy" vibe and then suddenly he's trekking across the bridge toward them, maybe after they already saw him get off the bridge on the other end, it would be strange. If L had noted a gun previously, maybe they'd be less apt to say, "gun" when he got to them. From the PCA, I got the impression they were startled by it, but that's only my interpretation.

JMO, but I do think we can see the impression of the gun in his pocket in the video. I don't think he had it holstered, nor was carrying it with a round in the chamber. I think he walked right up to them, pulled it out of his pocket, cycled it, and then it was on.

 

[CGBSpender]

I do fully agree with everything you said here. And likely there were not two misfires. But in my mind, there are also some unanswered questions, like, how well did RA maintain his gun (cleaning), could the firing pin or spring have been damaged or dirty? There are other questions about the significance of that unspent round, like did it contain RA's DNA, or victim DNA? A misfired round would still be ejected and have ejection marks, and would still be considered unspent, imo. NMcL didn't need to put anything more in the PCA than he did, and while a lot of folks said the unspent round is moot based on ejection mark ballistics not being strong enough evidence, is it possible there were more unique markings on that unspent round then what NMcL included in the PCAs? That's why I suggest the firing pin damage. It's only a random suggestion. I find it odd that RA had one .40 round in a keepsake box in his bedroom. It just makes me wonder...

I think this piece of evidence was one of his "mistakes" (DC at the 2019 press conference, "you made mistakes"). I'm wondering if in the course of going across the creek, the gun got wet and/or muddy...and at some point (maybe after the crime was over) he ejected the bullet from the chamber (the one that was racked on the bridge) so that he could drain the water and/or debris out of the chamber, and dry it off with something to prevent rust issues...or to quickly clean and rack a new cartridge in case someone found and confronted him before he made his escape (maybe not confident it would fire in the condition it was in)? Maybe he didn't see where the cartridge landed when he ejected it, and had to leave without it?

LE alleging that a witness saw the killer "muddy and bloody"...makes me wonder if one or both of the girls didn't attempt to fight back...and maybe the killer (and his gun) took a fall in the creek and/or in the mud/dirt trying to climb down or up one of the banks on either side of the creek?

JMO

 

[TL4S]

I think this piece of evidence was one of his "mistakes" (DC at the 2019 press conference, "you made mistakes"). I'm wondering if in the course of going across the creek, the gun got wet and/or muddy...and at some point (maybe after the crime was over) he ejected the bullet from the chamber (the one that was racked on the bridge) so that he could drain the water and/or debris out of the chamber, and dry it off with something to prevent rust issues? Maybe he didn't see where the cartridge landed when he ejected it, and had to leave without it?

LE alleging that a witness saw the killer "muddy and bloody"...makes me wonder if one or both of the girls didn't attempt to fight back...and maybe the killer (and his gun) took a fall in the creek and/or in the mud/dirt trying to climb down or up one of the banks on either side of the creek?

JMO

I've wondered the same about the gun getting muddy while he tried to climb the north bank. I also wonder if he hit either girl with the gun. What was the sequence of events that led to him ejecting that round. It's perplexing.

 

[Justice101]

I think this piece of evidence was one of his "mistakes" (DC at the 2019 press conference, "you made mistakes"). I'm wondering if in the course of going across the creek, the gun got wet and/or muddy...and at some point (maybe after the crime was over) he ejected the bullet from the chamber (the one that was racked on the bridge) so that he could drain the water and/or debris out of the chamber, and dry it off with something to prevent rust issues...or to quickly clean and rack a new cartridge in case someone found and confronted him before he made his escape (maybe not confident it would fire in the condition it was in)? Maybe he didn't see where the cartridge landed when he ejected it, and had to leave without it?

LE alleging that a witness saw the killer "muddy and bloody"...makes me wonder if one or both of the girls didn't attempt to fight back...and maybe the killer (and his gun) took a fall in the creek and/or in the mud/dirt trying to climb down or up one of the banks on either side of the creek?

JMO

Interesting.

Just a side note, I imagined the muddy part came from having to go up that steep bank on the side of the creek. The bloody I assumed to be coming from him rearranging their bodies after using a knife to actually kill them.

 

[minazoe]

he is a disgusting pervert... it's time for him to come clean...mOO

 

[TheVisual]

If we assume for a second that the reason Liberty German took the video because she saw a gun, the question is when did she first see a gun?

This is what is strange. Was Libby that observant that if the suspect started walking back towards the bench on the trail, as her and Abby passed him, she noticed the gun in his jacket when others who passed the suspect did not? Then 5 or 6 minutes later when he turned around to go back to the bridge she started to videotape him from that far away because that is how she knew about the gun?

How could Richard Allen not have passed Abigail Williams and Liberty German on the trail?

If the killer was already on the southeast side of the bridge, maybe this abduction did not happen over the course of 5-10 minutes like I thought, but within a few minutes as this person came up onto the bridge, Libby clearly saw the gun in his jacket as he started to walk down the Monon High Bridge towards Abby. He passed Abby, but then realized no one was around so he turned around to follow Abby. Maybe even Abby saw the gun in his jacket too? The suspect did not take 5 or 6 minutes to think about it.

Maybe the first time Liberty German saw a gun was when the killer passed the girls on the end of the bridge because the killer came from that southeast side of the bridge? And if Liberty German did not see the gun in the jacket on the main trail as she was walking towards the Monon High Bridge with Abigail Williams, how could she spot it from 70 feet away?

Somequestions: I was wondering this exactly. If you look closely at the pictures of BG on the bridge you can see 2 white things on the bridge( similar to when GH picked out the exact spot BG was on the bridge when LE released the picture of BG). They are behind BG's left foot as he raises it to take a step. I have always felt that these 2 white things are Abby's white rubber bottoms of her black tennis shoes(as seen in Libby's picture of Abby she took). So does this say that he passed Abby and was on his way to Libby to corral her first and then Abby as she came towards them? He may have cocked the gun to intimidate both of them and then said " down the hill ".JMO

If we assume for a second that the reason Liberty German took the video because she saw a gun, the question is when did she first see a gun?

This is what is strange. Was Libby that observant that if the suspect started walking back towards the bench on the trail, as her and Abby passed him, she noticed the gun in his jacket when others who passed the suspect did not? Then 5 or 6 minutes later when he turned around to go back to the bridge she started to videotape him from that far away because that is how she knew about the gun?

How could Richard Allen not have passed Abigail Williams and Liberty German on the trail?

If the killer was already on the southeast side of the bridge, maybe this abduction did not happen over the course of 5-10 minutes like I thought, but within a few minutes as this person came up onto the bridge, Libby clearly saw the gun in his jacket as he started to walk down the Monon High Bridge towards Abby. He passed Abby, but then realized no one was around so he turned around to follow Abby. Maybe even Abby saw the gun in his jacket too? The suspect did not take 5 or 6 minutes to think about it.

Maybe the first time Liberty German saw a gun was when the killer passed the girls on the end of the bridge because the killer came from that southeast side of the bridge? And if Liberty German did not see the gun in the jacket on the main trail as she was walking towards the Monon High Bridge with Abigail Williams, how could she spot it from 70 feet away?

The circumstantial evidence against Richard Allen seems sort of overwhelming now. I think he gave them all the evidence because I cannot understand why if LE had DNA evidence they would not put that in the PCA before the unspent cartridge evidence. I think if LE had DNA evidence they should have put that in the PCA and left out the unspent cartridge evidence. My guess is there might not be any DNA evidence against Richard Allen.

The whole case is strange to me, mainly because of Liberty German's video.

I think Liberty German took the video of the person on the bridge because she could see the person had a gun.

The first scenario is that he started to walk back from the bridge and passed Abby and Libby on the trail. Then for some reason he turned around but waited at least 5 or 6 minutes before stepping onto the bridge based on the 2:05 photo of the entire bridge and the 2:07 photo of Abigail Williams. And like some have pointed out those times could be when the picture was uploaded, not taken. I suppose Liberty German was that observant that she noticed a gun and that is how she was able to start the video recording from so far away at 2:13pm where it would be a lot more difficult to spot a gun in the jacket. Did any of the witnesses say that saw an outline of a gun in the jacket of the man they passed on the trail?

Then there is the second scenario which makes even less sense. He never got off the bridge and walked across the bridge to the southeast side. When Abby and Libby came across and were getting close to where he was, he started going back across the bridge, but then turned around after going past them a ways down the bridge. But that does not make sense either if he already had 5 or 6 minutes to think about it. Why would he not just abduct them right there on the southeast side without the extra walking on the bridge to then turn around? They were already close to the end of the bridge. It was this extra time and walking past the girls on the bridge initially that alerted Liberty German to be able to have time and distance to get out her phone and record his approach.

I know the answer to my questions could be that maybe Liberty German took the video of the bridge guy for a different reason. I suppose we will never know Liberty German's reason for taking the video. We might also never know the reasons for the strange timing and distance on the video now that Richard Allen has confessed, but this was part of the reason I thought that maybe police had arrested the wrong man. Without the video, I would not have all these questions.

 

[Justice101]

Personally, I think he saw them and they saw him right at about the mouth of the bridge, he would've appeared to be leaving, they were heading on to the bridge. He may have said something, said nothing, stared, didn't stare, just something that conveyed weirdness. His speed, the mask/gaiter -- just something. The girls continued on their merry way, it would seem, free of any sense of pending danger. No calls, no texts, no whatshouldwedos.

Meanwhile, RA knows that bridge. He knows how to traverse it. He knows exactly how long it takes to traverse it. He waited about exactly that long.... IMO it was ONLY a stroke of his sick good luck and their dreadful bad luck that he misjudged by a minute and didn't get himself captured in their earlier photo.

FWIW I don't think Libby spied the gun, neither girl, until he was revealing it. I think Libby started recording initially because she was a future photo journalist in the making. She saw something she wanted to record to show someone/people later. It's truly unfortunate that she didn't whisper a commentary. I do wonder what it would have been.

Directed? Like: Dad, do you know who this guy is? He said our names but I don't think I've ever seen him before?

Or: Wow, this guy's fast. He's like a leprechaun on these boards. You guys are going to laugh when you see this.

Or: I'm scared. He knows us. He's coming toward us. If something bad happens, I love you all. Gun.

I'm not yet convinced she knew they were in terminal danger yet. I think she was filming out of curiosity, perhaps bordering on concern.

IMO RA was cunning.

He had to be reasonably sure no one was left on the trail, the three juveniles on pace to reach parking and the lady, if ever he saw her, she was driving away as he was directing them down the hill. IMO he planned to take control of them at the far end of the bridge, exactly as he did.

I agree with others -- he didn't intend to fire the gun, had it for the intimidation factor. Controlling agent. I also don't think he intended EVER to be muddy and bloody. And I don't think he intended to kill them there. I think he planned to be in and out of the park in under two hours, walking in, walking out, neat and clean. I don't think walking along the thoroughfare was part of the plan, he just knew he couldn't go back on the trail, especially with blood on him.

I needn't get ahead of myself however. LE seized his computers. That's all being analyzed now, likely part of what remains sealed. If he had a double life, they've found it. And like all denizens of the underworld, if there's CSAM on there, his flavor du jour will no doubt be evident and illuminating and will likely give an indication of his motive that day.

I know I watch too much true crime, but two teens held against their will, plucked from a reserve with nary a trace, and held captive potentially for years, in a virtually undiscoverable remote location, yikes.

Jmo

I still think they snickered or laughed as he past or gave him the "you look like a creep" look. And that this angered him. He doubled back to teach them a lesson and it escalated quickly. Just my opinion. Abducting 2 at a time premeditatively, would be a whole lot to bite off. But in anger, he was out of control.

 

[MistyWaters]

I still think they snickered or laughed as he past or gave him the "you look like a creep" look. And that this angered him. He doubled back to teach them a lesson and it escalated quickly. Just my opinion. Abducting 2 at a time premeditatively, would be a whole lot to bite off. But in anger, he was out of control.

This is certainly possible, especially if he has deep-seated insecurity and low self-confidence issues. But if that happened, I just wonder how common it would’ve been for him to drive to a public trail while armed with both a gun and knife …..(for his personal protection??? will we learn of paranoia??)

 

[minazoe]

this has to do with his sexual fantasies about young girls ...and maybe even pairs of young girls. mOO

 

[iamnotagolem]

This is certainly possible, especially if he has deep-seated insecurity and low self-confidence issues. But if that happened, I just wonder how common it would’ve been for him to drive to a public trail while armed with both a gun and knife …..(for his personal protection??? will we learn of paranoia??)

I think it’s pretty common for people to hike with a gun, and most men routinely carry a knife.

I still think they snickered or laughed as he past or gave him the "you look like a creep" look. And that this angered him. He doubled back to teach them a lesson and it escalated quickly. Just my opinion. Abducting 2 at a time premeditatively, would be a whole lot to bite off. But in anger, he was out of control.

I agree! I think they may have even made a joke at his expense, if he was looking unhappy as mentioned by the juvenile witnesses then one of the girls could have quoted the movie Elf and said “aren’t you an angry little elf” or made a comment about him being “Grumpy” of the seven drawfs.

The entire situation just seems anger driven.

 

[Falling Down]

I think it’s pretty common for people to hike with a gun, and most men routinely carry a knife.

I agree! I think they may have even made a joke at his expense, if he was looking unhappy as mentioned by the juvenile witnesses then one of the girls could have quoted the movie Elf and said “aren’t you an angry little elf” or made a comment about him being “Grumpy” of the seven drawfs.

The entire situation just seems anger driven.

But why go through all that trouble, and how did he know where the area on RL's property is located?

I sense a tremendous amount of premeditation in this case.

JMO

 

[TL4S]

I think it’s pretty common for people to hike with a gun, and most men routinely carry a knife.

I agree! I think they may have even made a joke at his expense, if he was looking unhappy as mentioned by the juvenile witnesses then one of the girls could have quoted the movie Elf and said “aren’t you an angry little elf” or made a comment about him being “Grumpy” of the seven drawfs.

The entire situation just seems anger driven.

This scenario is super scary to me. For teenage girls to set off a grown man with a comment like that, which enrages him to the point of following them across the bridge, chambering a round into his gun, walking them down the hill, through the woods, across the creek, getting their clothing off, chambering his gun again for some reason, murdering them with his knife, spending up to an hour and 45 minutes with them, moving and staging their bodies, leaving oddness and signatures behind, then possibly taking photos or trophies, then I feel like he must have already been about to come majorly unhinged.

If he was in a rage, why not just shoot them at the end of the bridge and get the heck out of Dodge? He seemed to have had some control over himself, and imo, he didn't sound enraged when he orders them "dth". I'm not saying it couldn't have happened that way, but if he was seriously set off into this terrible and strange operating mode by a comment or laughing, that's terrifying to me. Jmo.

 

[Vern]

Do we think he was still standing on the bridge when the gun sound was made?

He may have been very close to the end of it or off of it by that time. We just know from the released documents that he cycles the round (as heard in the video's audio track), one of the girls states that he has a gun and that he tells them down the hill. So definitely in the immediate vicinity of the bridge. I suspect that if we could see the video, we'd actually know the answer to your question though; the trial will tell no doubt.

Investigators believe Richard M. Allen committed this kidnapping which resulted in the killing of Victim 1 and Victim 2. From their prior conclusions investigators believe Richard M. Allen was the male depicted in Victim 2s video saying, “Guys, Down the hill.” They ‘believe Richard M. Allen was carrying his Sig Sauer Model P26 on that day due to the cycled ‘round matching that firearm was located within feet of Victim 2’s body. They further believe he was carrying the Sig Sauer Model P226 from the audio from Victim 2’s video in which investigators believe they hear the sound of a gun being cycled and one ofthe victims ‘mentioning a “gun.” Investigators believe after that time Victim 1 and Victim 2 were removed from the bridge by Richard to where their murders occurred.

I also note with the blue highlight that that LE states in this document, "the cycled ‘round matching that firearm was located within feet of Victim 2’s body." They do not call it a "misfired round" that was found within 2 feet of their bodies. Those with experience can tell the difference between a round that's merely 'cycled' and one that is actually 'misfired' as a misfired round would have additional markings from the firing pin etc. I think their specific choice of wording here actually tells us that the round was a "cycled round" and not a "misfired round" - they had years to have it analyzed by the pros prior to writing this document.

I also note that if it is identified that it is actually a misfired round at trial, , and I highly doubt it will be, ... that any good defence attorney worth their salt at a death penalty trial will be utilizing the above text where they've identified it as a "cycled round" as grounds to undermine the credibility of the prosecution ballistic expert. They are not the same things; they are different beasts altogether.

Edited to add link again (Page 6, para 3):

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23863509/richard-allen-motion-filed-42023.pdf