IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #166

[Miya]

A well thought out post with excellent points.....overridden by the fact he has confessed multiple times.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Yes, he confessed multiple times to family members and so did 2 of the people named in the memo. Why is that different and less important?

And ok, if cops lying in depositions is overridden by the fact that RA confessed, the mistakes that were made at the crime scene as well, that's your opinion, in the real world that's not how things should be or are allowed to be, you can't lie in depositions, even more so when you are LE. And you can't just not look at things at a crime scene.

Confession to family members or not, he is still just charged with felony murder and not murder. Which means they don't think they have enough evidence to get him convicted of murder, which also could mean others are involved.

 

[TL4S]

IIRC defence only made a big deal out of RA’s 2017 initial interview not being recorded so - no surprise - the time he supposedly said was wrong. But what’s revealing about that is at time of that particular interview it wouldn’t have been known 1:30 to 3:30 was a critical time.

However I don’t recall absolutely anything mentioned about the time discussed during the Oct 13, 2022 interview which surely was brought up and interview recorded. If so, it’ll be near impossible for defence to argue against it if RA reconfirmed the time was 1:30 to 3:30.

I think the defence has become desperate because they see this high profile case vanishing before their very eyes due to RAs multiple confessions.

Page 109 of the memorandum:


Richard Allen voluntarily was interviewed on October 13, 2022. Watching the videotaped interview, it is apparent that Richard thought he was being asked questions to help assist the policein solving the crime. In trying to provide Liggett and Mullin a timeline of when he (Richard Allen) was at the trail, Richard stated he arrived at the trail around noon. Later in the interview, Richard Allen told Liggett and Mullin that he probably left the trail around 1:30 pm.¹⁵⁸

 

[TL4S]

Here are samples of the vehicles as witnesses described them:

2:10 Purple PT Cruiser


2:14 1965 Comet (not black) - BB recognized it as one like her father used to own


2:28 Smart Car


2016 Ford Focus Hatchback (like RA's)

 

[Tealgrove]

Considering how many excitedly jumped on JBC’s FB postings supposedly pointing towards numerous “confessions” of guilt, it‘s not really surprising the defence might drum up another SM replica.

I’m surprised they didn’t drag JBC into their theories as well. Could have been interesting reading. MOO

 

[minazoe]

Bizarre crime scene. I think RA was online enough to see it and may have been a closet fan of the rituals... and then used that knowledge to fake the crime scene to send investigators down the wrong path;.

bingo!!!!

 

[Jade]

What I'm interested in though is the 2 people that confessed to family members (RA did the same but somehow people see that as proof that he did it, why is it brushed off by many if others did the same?), one even being worried about his spit (DNA) being there.

Snipped for Focus


Richard Allen confessed while he’s incarcerated charged with the murders of Liberty and Abigail.

Richard Allen’s confession, in his own words, was transcribed.

The others were not direct confessions but instead second hand information relayed by tipsters.
E obliquely referred to it to investigators but did not confess.

The direct evidence of a confession by the charged offender carries more weight.



While in custody, on April 3, Allen was on a call with his wife and allegedly admitted "several times that he killed Abby and Libby," according to a court document released on Wednesday.

>>>>>

In a document filed by the prosecutor on June 13, in another effort to obtain Allen's mental health records, the prosecution alleged that Allen admitted to the killings "no less than 5 times while talking to his wife and his mother on the public jail phones."

Delphi double murder suspect allegedly confessed several times in jail call with wife: Court documents

“Investigators had the phone call transcribed and the transcription confirms that Richard Allen admits that he committed the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German,” the document said. “He admits several times within the phone call that he committed the offenses as charged.”

>>>>

Prosecutors also wrote that Allen confessed to his mother during a phone call from jail.

Allen “has admitted that he committed the offenses that he is charged with no less than 5 times while talking to his wife and his mother on the public jail phones available at the Indiana Department of Corrections,” according to a state filing regarding Allen’s mental health records.

Delphi documents: Richard Allen told wife he killed girls; investigators believe knife used in murders

all imo

 

[Salah11]

Yes, he confessed multiple times to family members and so did 2 of the people named in the memo. Why is that different and less important?

And ok, if cops lying in depositions is overridden by the fact that RA confessed, the mistakes that were made at the crime scene as well, that's your opinion, in the real world that's not how things should be or are allowed to be, you can't lie in depositions, even more so when you are LE. And you can't just not look at things at a crime scene.

Confession to family members or not, he is still just charged with felony murder and not murder. Which means they don't think they have enough evidence to get him convicted of murder, which also could mean others are involved.

Because he confessed directly multiple times when in jail.


We don’t know the character’s of the other people claiming other people confessed and what their motives are. One I believe is a ex girlfriend so could be a bitter spiteful Ex with a axe to grind for all we know.

There is loads more value in a confession to his wife and family while charged with their murders.

IMO

 

[Boxer]

Getting a

This might be totally off, but an idea just popped into my head. Maybe there wasn't blood on the body except at injury site because he slashed her neck in the water? I'm not sure logistically how that would work, but the "clean" body could be because they were near/in water.

Feel free to poke holes in the idea....it's just a thought that appeared out of nowhere.

jmo

1. Pulling a body up the steep embankmentet looks near impossible, would leave evidence.
2. Investigators said they were killed where they were found.

 

[sandy_80]

Yes, he confessed multiple times to family members and so did 2 of the people named in the memo. Why is that different and less important?

And ok, if cops lying in depositions is overridden by the fact that RA confessed, the mistakes that were made at the crime scene as well, that's your opinion, in the real world that's not how things should be or are allowed to be, you can't lie in depositions, even more so when you are LE. And you can't just not look at things at a crime scene.

Confession to family members or not, he is still just charged with felony murder and not murder. Which means they don't think they have enough evidence to get him convicted of murder, which also could mean others are involved.

there is no comparison between a confession by a suspect with many evidence against him..and between CLAIMS by ppl that have not been linked to the case in anyway as in evidence ( if they even happened)
anyone can claim anything..thousands said they were zodiac....and under the effect of drugs ud hear stranger things
also KAK really put himself at the crime scene , waiting in a red car ..have everyone forgot that

 

[minazoe]

everyone is entitled to delve deeply into the Odinist theory. apparently the FBI decided to toss it for some reason..
mOO

 

[Salah11]

everyone is entitled to delve deeply into the Odinist theory. apparently the FBI decided to toss it for some reason..
mOO

Exactly - LE looked into and decided it held no value and dropped it.


We have a man in jail charged with the crimes and he has since confessed multiple times.

 

[CGBSpender]

JMO- Random thoughts...

• The Franks Memo doesn't really seem like a Franks Memo. It includes information that is irrelevant to the motion, and is written like a communication to lay persons, not a proper legal filing supporting a motion directed to a judicial officer. Seems more like something drafted to razzle dazzle the public, than to support a legal motion.
• If the defense were that concerned about Odin followers harming their client in prison...filing the Memo to the Franks Motion not under seal accusing members of that group of wrongdoing seems like a bad idea.
• Several typos in the Franks Memo. Makes me think the filing of it was rushed. Seems like something in the Sept 8 discovery batch (that they claim they didn't have a chance to fully review) might have caused them to try to get the motion on file quickly...before something in either the Sept 8 or Sept 11th discovery batches creates a problem with the arguments they are making / position they are taking. They could have reviewed the two newest discovery batches thoroughly before filing this motion, they were not up against any hard deadline...but they made a choice file it before they were fully on notice of anything in those batches of discovery.
• The Memo claims one of the people the defense accuses as a potential suspect was interviewed on Sept. 4, 2023. LE has said their investigation is ongoing. An alternative explanation is that following the interview on Sept 4, the investigation was in a place where LE could release that additional evidence to the defense on Sept 8 without compromising the integrity of the ongoing investigation.
• Is there something more that was pulled out of RA's house (other than his gun) that has the defense worried, and focused on trying to suppress? Seems like a good expert could poke holes in the ballistics theory all day long...why rush a Franks memo filing out the door when you have more discovery to pick up and review?
• If Holeman had testified that he was unaware of any evidence linking RA to a religious cult group...I would expect it would be in the memo (since that testimony by Liggett was quoted in the memo). So is it possible that either a) Holeman answered that question differently than Liggett, so it is not included in the memo....or b) the defense opted not to ask Holeman that same question. Why not ask Holeman the same question unless you were not sure you would like what the answer would be?

Again, JMO.

 

[Miya]

Snipped for Focus


Richard Allen confessed while he’s incarcerated charged with the murders of Liberty and Abigail.

Richard Allen’s confession, in his own words, was transcribed.

The others were not direct confessions but instead second hand information relayed by tipsters.
E obliquely referred to it to investigators but did not confess.

Yeah, well, maybe they should have been in prison after their confessions to family members, they might have confessed on a phone call again. And asking about his spit on one of the girls and if that could get him in trouble, maybe not enough to arrest him but enough to look into him more. Which, as I understand it, didn't happen.

And to make it clear, I believe RA is involved but with this new info and even before it came out, after RA's arrest, LE saying there is a lot more and they are not done with the investigation, I believe it's possible that he didn't act alone. That, of course, would not be mentioned in the memo.

 

[LaurelTedytamer]

Hi,
After thinking all night on the Frank’s Memorandum had a couple of questions and I personally didn’t believe most of what they said in it … being honest.

The branches… I presuming (the weather wasn’t windy) so the branches had to be placed over the girls ??? We agree on that?

Still blows my mind right away the police didn’t take the branches as evidence straightaway. Fingerprints dna and if they were snapped or cut. Was there other branches around not on the girls but close by or was it semi clear ie the branches used just what was easily grabbed to cover them???

The photos of the crime scene will be what the jury see… and make their opinion.

Another thing from the memorandum (I hate mentioning this I’m not a ghoul but I just don’t understand this) Abby clean no blood on her hands or body or clothes and wearing Libby’s clothes.

She died slower then Libby due to her injury so she would have grabbed her neck to try and staunch the blood if she could. So are we presuming she died in the creek and then he dressed her? Or we presuming the murderer washed her in the creek after? The creek was it muddy or cleanish water? Do we know??? If you washed in it wouldn’t the water leave your skin dirty??? Did the murderer feel remorse for Abby because she suffered longer then Libby so much so that they dressed her???

I really hope the Prosecution has the answers and evidence.

 

[Miya]

Exactly - LE looked into and decided it held no value and dropped it.


We have a man in jail charged with the crimes and he has since confessed multiple times.

He is charged with felony murder, not with murder. There is a huge difference including the fact that they can't prove he killed them (which doesn't mean he didn't, it's just that they couldn't prove it in a court of law).

 

[10ofRods]

Invoking the felony murder rule is not about the amount or quality of evidence.

IMO

 

[Justice101]

Yes, he confessed multiple times to family members and so did 2 of the people named in the memo. Why is that different and less important?

And ok, if cops lying in depositions is overridden by the fact that RA confessed, the mistakes that were made at the crime scene as well, that's your opinion, in the real world that's not how things should be or are allowed to be, you can't lie in depositions, even more so when you are LE. And you can't just not look at things at a crime scene.

Confession to family members or not, he is still just charged with felony murder and not murder. Which means they don't think they have enough evidence to get him convicted of murder, which also could mean others are involved.

Exactly.

If he PARTICIPATED in ANY way, he is equally culpable.

 

[katydid23]

When reading a mystery novel, or taking in a film that is said to have a twist, it usually means something unpredictable and or shocking has taken place in the plot. So what is it here? Did the Odins leave a bullet to frame someone who turned out to be RA? Did someone frame the Odins?? There’s something we are still unaware of I think.

I'm wondering if RA might have staged the scene to frame the Odins----set the stage to point the blame at the cult, to deflect from himself?

 

[justtrish]

Yes, he confessed multiple times to family members and so did 2 of the people named in the memo. Why is that different and less important?

And ok, if cops lying in depositions is overridden by the fact that RA confessed, the mistakes that were made at the crime scene as well, that's your opinion, in the real world that's not how things should be or are allowed to be, you can't lie in depositions, even more so when you are LE. And you can't just not look at things at a crime scene.

Confession to family members or not, he is still just charged with felony murder and not murder. Which means they don't think they have enough evidence to get him convicted of murder, which also could mean others are involved.

It's my understanding that the charges he was charged with are appropriate. He murdered the girls in the commission of another felony (many are listed by his crime is kidnapping). It seems very easy to prove that he kidnapped them, there is a video with him and his voice telling the girls to go down the hill. I don't think this charge is somehow less than the other murder he could have been charged with. The other one requires them to prove he intentionally wanted to kill them. Maybe they were concerned that it would be harder to prove his intent from the start was to kill them, maybe he wanted to kidnap and SA them, but something went wrong and he killed one and then decided he had to kill the other. The way I am reading the charge he is charged with they just have to prove that he killed them in the commission of committing the kidnapping, which doesn't require them to prove he intended to kill them, just that he did kill them after he kidnapped them.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Invoking the felony murder rule is not about the amount or quality of evidence.

IMO

What do you think the reason is?