IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #166

[Inthedetails]

It's not ridiculous that cults, supremacists, and hate groups exist. That's not the issue, imo.

jmo

 

[minazoe]

this is a movie plot from Netflix..teenage girls in the woods, weird norse cult..little straw dolls in the trees like Blair witch..give me a break...I find all this laughable. mOO

 

[Havingacrisis]

I prefer to wait until the trial, when we can hear and see all the evidence and testimony. The defense is allowed to be very selective in the evidence they present and it seems they have been. They're leaving out a great deal of evidence that the prosecution has, including DNA, data from cell phones, GPS, computer records/searches, all the evidence gathered at RA's home, surveillance audio and video, etc. They've released a small amount to the public, but there's a lot more.

Of course the defense isn't going to mention any incriminating evidence against RA in their report, unless they can turn it to his benefit. That's their job. But its necessary for juries to hear all the evidence, from both sides.

The important thing to note here -

The defense is using the state’s discovery in this brief

 

[sandy_80]

if we have to take the defence word for it
if sketch 2 is the work of witness BB..this is the one who almost ruined the case ..and now will be used by the defence to challange the other witnesses
how exactly did she see a 20 year old with curly hair but then looks at BG vid and says its one and the same..it seems her description went against the others.. and she failed first..but then in 2019 she somehow convinced le that she only is right ! and thats ur new direction source and all that went down the hill
i cant beilve this le listened to a woman angry cause her sketch wasnt ( the sketch) while she saw him from 50ft ..but then again we had 3 teens who were the closest to BG...passing by him and making eye contact !

 

[Vaderman]

I still think libby is def the target ..and abby was collateral damage if she really refused to escape..and we also heard that libby fought ..thats why her bloody hands.. we cant take the defence word for how they were killed also ...
the way she redressed and killed might suggest ( i cant say remorse but something like when you are dealing with a child )

The RL search warrant clearly states "LG and AW had no visible signs of a struggle or a fight".

 

[Betty P]

The important thing to note here -

The defense is using the state’s discovery in this brief

They're not showing the exhibits from discovery that they describe. They cherry-picked the evidence they discuss and attempt to refute.

If there were "runes" at the crime scene, they should have shown those, while blocking out graphic parts. If there was an "F" painted on the tree, they should have shown the photo of it.

They produce no evidence at all that the man they accuse was the one who did it. OTOH, the state has shown some of the evidence they have against RA, including photos/video of his car coming and going from the scene, his confessions to his wife and others, his resemblance to BG in appearance and voice, ballistics, clothing, etc.

When I've seen all the evidence, I'll decide. It will need to include evidence showing the Odinist guy did it, as well as evidence that his (various numbers suggested) friends were also involved in the pagan ritual. JMO

 

[Betty P]

The RL search warrant clearly states "LG and AW had no visible signs of a struggle or a fight".

Wasn't that description of signs of a struggle from the defense attorneys report?

 

[rosesfromangels]

If there was financial gain to be had (snuff film meets csam), perhaps he never got paid. Not like he can go to the police/court and say bad guys shafted him when he commit the crime.

Potential motive there, however.

Jmo

I don't know why I keep getting the feeling his family has been threatened, and thus he isn't saying all he knows? And of course now look what his family has to endure b/c of him! What a nightmare for all families involved, but most of all (of course) the families of Libby and Abby.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

Maybe the goal wasn't money necessarily but fetish? idk.

If RA committed the murders with a goal of creating images (which I find more believable than cult sacrifice), that means he's connected to a network. He would need to know where to distribute or even to get the idea in the first place. I bought the KK connection though nothing seems to have come of that. I really thought that lead would pull it all together.

I would not be surprised by further arrests (today would be a good day), but the cult thing seems way more of a stretch than a CSAM link.

jmo

I keep thinking of his pharmacy tech job and the potential of diverting meds as another potential "interest". I agree with your post 100%. I think this is much more about fetish than other possibilities, although a dark web connection seems plausible as well. Creepers connect with each other, and have quite a fantasy life they share together. As technology continues to refine (machine learning and AI), we might be able to start getting ahead of it. Right now, there's just not enough of the good guys to bust and prosecute them all.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Vaderman]

Wasn't that description of signs of a struggle from the defense attorneys report?

No, from the search warrant into Ronald Logan's property that was leaked.

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

 

[tara83]

The new satanic panic?What a joke this defense lawyer is.JMO.

 

[Inthedetails]

The new satanic panic?What a joke this defense lawyer is.JMO.

Yes, the document reminds me of the satanic panic from the 1980s. People were convinced satanic cults were running daycare centers.

jmo

 

[FrostedGlass]

They're not showing the exhibits from discovery that they describe. They cherry-picked the evidence they discuss and attempt to refute.

If there were "runes" at the crime scene, they should have shown those, while blocking out graphic parts. If there was an "F" painted on the tree, they should have shown the photo of it.

They produce no evidence at all that the man they accuse was the one who did it. OTOH, the state has shown some of the evidence they have against RA, including photos/video of his car coming and going from the scene, his confessions to his wife and others, his resemblance to BG in appearance and voice, ballistics, clothing, etc.

When I've seen all the evidence, I'll decide. It will need to include evidence showing the Odinist guy did it, as well as evidence that his (various numbers suggested) friends were also involved in the pagan ritual. JMO

As far as we know, they don't have evidence of his car leaving the scene. They have a car similar to his arriving at the time the conservation officer's note said he arrived. According to the memorandum, RA said he left around that time.

 

[O.Incandenza]

Right but it is hard to interpret the note - which is the only contemporaneous record, consistently with him leaving at 1.30???

The defence says that the times are merely a range, not that he was there the whole time, but then also says he was not even there at the time.

Frankly I prefer the prosecution evidence here, even if the name is wrong. Indeed we have two pieces of corroborating evidence that the 1.30 time at least is correct. IMO it is a reasonable inference that his car was the one parked there at 2.15pm

I tend to agree with you. However, it's interesting that BB helped create a sketch of the car she saw at 2:15 (the comet). I imagine that will be displayed prominently at trial by the defense alongside the YBG sketch.

Eyewitnesses are just not a great source for exact details. However, that cuts both ways here. It's hard to tell a jury to ignore BB's description of the man on the bridge and her description of the car, and at the same time tell them to trust the other eyewitnesses. Especially when BB's descriptions are so different from RA and his car.

Hopefully they recovered other evidence in the search, so we're not just left with eyewitnesses and the bullet. And the confessions of course, depending on what exactly RA said there. But it helps the defense that they seem to have other suspects who have also confessed and arguably revealed unknown crime scene details.

 

[Pitsleuth]

Maybe those mentioned should bring legal action///OH NO...That would mean really looking into those mentioned , wouldn't it? I recall the grandmother of one of the victims brought one of those names to the LE early on...I consider that enough of a reason to believe there was concern...

Why do you think LE ignored or brushed these suspects aside, if it was so clear that they were connected? What motive would they have to do that? They didn’t even know who RA was at that point.

 

[O.Incandenza]

They're not showing the exhibits from discovery that they describe. They cherry-picked the evidence they discuss and attempt to refute.

If there were "runes" at the crime scene, they should have shown those, while blocking out graphic parts. If there was an "F" painted on the tree, they should have shown the photo of it.

They produce no evidence at all that the man they accuse was the one who did it. OTOH, the state has shown some of the evidence they have against RA, including photos/video of his car coming and going from the scene, his confessions to his wife and others, his resemblance to BG in appearance and voice, ballistics, clothing, etc.

When I've seen all the evidence, I'll decide. It will need to include evidence showing the Odinist guy did it, as well as evidence that his (various numbers suggested) friends were also involved in the pagan ritual. JMO

Just to be clear, they attached all the photos you're talking about to the memorandum. But they're sealed so that the public can't see them. The judge can though.

Which means we can't really decided how exaggerated their claims are, but they did produce the evidence you're talking about.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I find it far more likely that these "Odinist" guards would be intimidating RA because he is an alleged (now confessed) child murderer as opposed to them... what? Intimidating a man who appears to be going down for a crime their alleged gang committed? Why would they do that? If their cult is responsible for the murders, why not just leave him be and let him go down for it?
The whole idea of these guards standing around, filming and intimidating RA WHILE HIS ATTORNEYS ARE PRESENT is just beyond ludicrous to me.

I am running behind on threads so this might have already been mentioned. But IMO the guards with Odinist leanings might be upset that RA murdered two girls and then staged the crime scene to look like a Odinist ritual.

 

[FrostedGlass]

For the folks who haven't read the memorandum, here is an example of one of the footnotes citing the sources of their claims:

156 Find attached Richard Allen’s October 13, 2022 (Exhibit 110), interview. Richard Allen does not realize that he
is being interrogated as a suspect until much later in the interview.
157 Exhibit 110 Richard tells Liggett and prosecutor investigator Mullins from the prosecutor’s office that he had
arrived around noon at the 10:57:40 mark.
158 Exhibit 110 at the 11:53:43 mark.
159 Ligget’s affidavit.
160 Ligget’s affidavit.

 

[10ofRods]

snipped

Exactly.

I understand the interest in the document, but I do hope people realize it is not proven.

jmo

Not sure how the average person will "realize" that (which I guess is the whole point of permitting this kind of thing).

IMO

 

[10ofRods]

I still think libby is def the target ..and abby was collateral damage if she really refused to escape..and we also heard that libby fought ..thats why her bloody hands.. we cant take the defence word for how they were killed also ...
the way she redressed and killed might suggest ( i cant say remorse but something like when you are dealing with a child )

Do you have a source for the defensive wounds and bloody hands? I know this is a long and difficult case - but that's the first I've heard of that.

Totally agree that we should not be taking one side's word on what happened, but generally LE and the State are the ones presenting the charging evidence.

I see no evidence of 'remorse' in the redressing - but something much more sinister. IMO.