IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #170

[StarryStarryNight]

Well I understand that the Franks motion never should have been released because of the gag order? Sealing it then makes perfect sense to me. It included many many things that were part of discovery and considered confidential.

Those three affidavits...two are specific to things discussed in the Franks motion and discuss the defense's theory and people, who are not charged, were being publically accused and harrassed (the 5 men named as possible alternative murderers) because of the release. The other affidavit is from an ongoing ISP investigation into the release of two minor's crime scene death photos being into the public realm...also at the moment confidential material.

These files haven't disappeared, they're under seal at this time because of what they contain. The defense was attempting to try the case in the public's eye before it got to trial. Don't the victim's also deserve to have their case's integrity protected by the courts?

It's to RA's benefit that his proceedings judge protects his rights to representation as well. "Gross negligence" is a serious judgement. It was, I must believe until shown otherwise, pronounced to make sure the defendant had competent council.
AJMO

Could Libby and Abby’s families sue Baldwin after the trial for being slack and allowing the crime scene photos of their murdered children to be released on the internet. Or MW?

 

[Salah11]

IMO there is now a significant issue, that through no fault of his own, the accused has to spend an extra year in jail awaiting trial. That feels Kafka to me

I hope his new attorneys act on that point.

Well when you murder 2 school girls then there are repercussion’s.

IMO

 

[CGBSpender]

Good point. The ex-D have yet to blame hacking but it’s not over yet.

AB said the email error occurred as he only typed the first 3 letters and it just so happens the first 3 letters of Brad and Brandon are the same. Another, blame it on Yahoo.

JMO

Did BW actually leak the info from the e-mail he was sent? It looks like he was commenting on it, but it also seems like that all was happening after someone else started putting that particular alleged leaked information online in late Aug / early Sept? Seems odd that if BW got the info in Dec. of 2022...and he was going to leak it...that he would wait 8 months to decide to do it? Maybe I don't have the timeline correct...but then the alleged photo leak rumors started surfacing in early October of 2023...which kind of seems like a totally different leak. It's all very confusing.

JMO

 

[Emma Peel]

Judge Gull has responded to the SC and asked for a 5 day extension
"The Office of the Indiana Attorney General has declined to represent Respondent in this matter, causing Respondent to need to engage counsel."
View attachment 457949View attachment 457950View attachment 457951

JG attorneys:
Matthew R. Gutwein (#16414-49)
Christopher S. Stake (#27356-53)
DELANEY & DELANEY LLC

Thank you.
See point #4.
Where State of IN declines to engage in the matter before the SC. Gull finds her own counsel.

See Gull's Attnys here:
(Gutwein & Stake)

Business, Employment & Litigation Lawyers | DeLaney & DeLaney Law Firm | Indianapolis Indiana

DeLaney & DeLaney Attorneys At Law provide legal services including civil litigation, business & employment law, contract negotiations, and product liability defense.

www.delaneylaw.net

Cool!
I was hoping we'd get to a dozen attorneys to watch for this case. Such a nice round number.

Attny Count to date:
Prosecution - 2
Old D - 2
New D - 2
Hennessey - 1
Wieneke - 3
Gull's - 2

Unless I forgot someone?

JHMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Could Libby and Abby’s families sue Baldwin after the trial for being slack and allowing the crime scene photos of their murdered children to be released on the internet. Or MW?

Vanessa Bryant was awarded 16 million dollars because of leaked photos.

 

[CGBSpender]

Thank you.
See point #4.
Where State of IN declines to engage in the matter before the SC. Gull finds her own counsel.

See Gull's Attnys here:
(Gutwein & Stake)

Business, Employment & Litigation Lawyers | DeLaney & DeLaney Law Firm | Indianapolis Indiana

DeLaney & DeLaney Attorneys At Law provide legal services including civil litigation, business & employment law, contract negotiations, and product liability defense.

www.delaneylaw.net

Cool!
I was hoping we'd get to a dozen attorneys to watch for this case. Such a nice round number.

Attny Count to date:
Prosecution - 2
Old D - 2
New D - 2
Hennessey - 1
Wieneke - 3
Gull's - 2

Unless I forgot someone?

JHMO

You forgot that BR said he filed a notice of tort claim on behalf of RA with the AG's office...which is possibly why the AG's office can't participate in the SC matter...so I think you are safe to add at least one AG if not more to that list.

JMO

 

[Emma Peel]

You forgot that BR said he filed a notice of tort claim on behalf of RA with the AG's office...which is possibly why the AG's office can't participate in the SC matter...so I think you are safe to add at least one AG if not more to that list.

JMO

I missed this AG filing. Has anyone seen it?

adding:
Hmmm. Nevermind.
It appears the public can't look up a Tort Claim. Perhaps if it matures into a civil suit ...
Wonder what damages were asserted and what tort?

jmo

 

[CGBSpender]

I missed this AG filing. Has anyone seen it?

I want to say it was mentioned in BR's motion to disqualify that someone on here posted. I haven't seen an actual copy of the referenced notice of claim...I'm not sure if those are public documents?

JMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Did BW actually leak the info from the e-mail he was sent? It looks like he was commenting on it, but it also seems like that all was happening after someone else started putting that particular alleged leaked information online in late Aug / early Sept? Seems odd that if BW got the info in Dec. of 2022...and he was going to leak it...that he would wait 8 months to decide to do it? Maybe I don't have the timeline correct...but then the alleged photo leak rumors started surfacing in early October of 2023...which kind of seems like a totally different leak. It's all very confusing.

JMO

My guess is different leak. Per AB’s own statement, MW has access to the evidence sometime in August and took photographs during that time.
Both Murder Sheet and Gary H have said they received the photos and evidence from different sources. I believe the spread was widespread and not contained.

 

[CGBSpender]

It appears the public can't look up a Tort Claim. Perhaps if it matures into a civil suit ...
Wonder what damages were asserted and what tort?

Perhaps something to due with his complaints about his confinement? Here is where the form is located...

Civil Torts

www.in.gov

JMO

 

[Emma Peel]

I want to say it was mentioned in BR's motion to disqualify that someone on here posted. I haven't seen an actual copy of the referenced notice of claim...I'm not sure if those are public documents?

JMO

thanks. yes, I edited my Q above. you're correct ... the Tort is not public.
If the Tort is not settled; then any civil action coming out of that would be public. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

Did BW actually leak the info from the e-mail he was sent? It looks like he was commenting on it, but it also seems like that all was happening after someone else started putting that particular alleged leaked information online in late Aug / early Sept? Seems odd that if BW got the info in Dec. of 2022...and he was going to leak it...that he would wait 8 months to decide to do it? Maybe I don't have the timeline correct...but then the alleged photo leak rumors started surfacing in early October of 2023...which kind of seems like a totally different leak. It's all very confusing.

JMO

I got the impression from MS podcast that it was only a list but he openly discussed it in FB groups making it appear as he’s seen the actual photos. Perhaps the list may’ve included brief descriptions of each of the photos. I wasn’t involved any of these FB groups but I wonder if he claimed he had “inside sources”.

Yes the several months gap in time have been a problem to overcome when planning to pin the second leak on BW.

ETA- And BW actually did have what could be called an “inside source“ through his relationship with AB. According to MS, the connection was that BW very publicly claimed he was set up by Carroll County PD in an unrelated incident so connecting the dots, proof I suppose that RA must‘ve been set up too. That was prior to the evil Odins….

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

New Filing from yesterday. Either I totally missed this or it was added after I gave the update. From now on, I'm going to include the entry before my update to make sure there's not an error on my part. This is everything beginning 11/01/2023. The Order appears to be a record of the Oct 31 hearing.

11/01/2023	Automated Paper Notice Issued to Parties Order Received from the Indiana Supreme Court ---- 10/31/2023 : James David Luttrull
11/01/2023	Automated ENotice Issued to Parties Order Received from the Indiana Supreme Court ---- 10/31/2023 : Andrew Joseph Baldwin;Bradley Anthony Rozzi;Nicholas Charles McLeland;Robert Cliff Scremin;William Santino Lebrato

11/01/2023	Order Granting Order granting withdrawal of counsel Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Noticed: McLeland, Nicholas Charles Noticed: Baldwin, Andrew Joseph Noticed: Rozzi, Bradley Anthony Noticed: Scremin, Robert Cliff Noticed: Lebrato, William Santino Noticed: Luttrull, James David JR Order Signed: 11/01/2023
11/02/2023	Automated Paper Notice Issued to Parties Order Granting ---- 11/1/2023 : James David Luttrull
11/02/2023	Order Issued Defendant appears in person with court appointed counsel Robert Scremin and William Lebrato. State by Prosecuting Attorney Nicholas McLeland and Special Prosecutor James Luttrell. Former counsel Rozzi and Baldwin also appear, having entered an appearance October 30, 2023. Attorney Scremin and Lebrato's Motion to Continue the jury trial heard and granted without objection by the State as defendant is accepting the Criminal Rule 4 time. Court then addresses former attorneys Baldwin and Rozzi's appearance. The Court previously found gross negligence by said attorneys in their representation of the defendant. Nothing has changed in the intervening twelve (12) days that removes the Court's grave concerns about their representation. Over Rozzi and Baldwin's strenuous objections, Court disqualifies them from representing the defendant and affirms the appointment of contract Public Defenders Scremin and Lebrato. Former attorneys represent to the Court they will return all discovery to the State of Indiana by the end of the week. Counsel ordered to do so to enable the State to provide that discovery to Attorneys Scremin and Lebrato. Court encourages former attorneys to cooperate with Attorneys Scremin and Lebrato for the benefit of the defendant. Court notes two (2) pending motions (Motion to Suppress, Motion for Franks Hearing) and will await a report from Attorneys Scremin and Lebrato and Prosecuting Attorney McLeland regarding hearing dates. Baldwin's attorney, Hennessey, addresses the Court at Baldwin's request. Jury trial scheduled for October 15 - November 1, 2024, with jury selection to be conducted in Allen County and trial in Carroll County. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Noticed: McLeland, Nicholas Charles Noticed: Baldwin, Andrew Joseph Noticed: Rozzi, Bradley Anthony Noticed: Scremin, Robert Cliff Noticed: Lebrato, William Santino Noticed: Luttrull, James David JR Order Signed: 11/01/2023
11/02/2023	Appearance Filed Limited Appearance of Cara Schaefer Wieneke For Party: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 11/02/2023
11/02/2023	Praecipe for Transcript Filed Defendant's Motion for Transcripts Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp:11/02/2023
11/03/2023	Automated Paper Notice Issued to Parties Order Issued ---- 11/2/2023 : James David Luttrull
11/03/2023	Automated ENotice Issued to Parties Order Issued ---- 11/2/2023 : Andrew Joseph Baldwin;Bradley Anthony Rozzi;Nicholas Charles McLeland;Robert Cliff Scremin;William Santino Lebrato
10/15/2024	Jury Trial

Doesn't this part mean one of the three new attorneys taking issues up with the SC also addressed JG's court yesterday?

"Appearance Filed
Limited Appearance of Cara Schaefer Wieneke
For Party: Allen, Richard M.
File Stamp: 11/02/2023"

 

[Ward Thisperer]

RA's new lawyer commented on the case

Allen County’s chief public defender says his office is prepared to take on Delphi killings case

Allen County Chief Public Defender William “Billy” Lebrato doesn’t believe the trial will impact the daily work of the department.

www.wane.com

“It’s not a death penalty case or an LWOP (life without parole) case, it’s just a double homicide which we do routinely, unfortunately, here in Allen County. The only impact it will have is the travel time to another county,” Lebrato said Thursday just after the quarterly public defender board meeting held at the Rousseau Centre.

“It’s definitely an interesting case. It’s garnered a lot of media attention,” Lebrato said. “It’s a brutal homicide but Mr. Scremin and I will do our jobs and we’ll do it professionally like we always do and represent Mr. Allen to the best of our abilities.”

“It just depends on what motions are filed. I can say that the prosecutor in Delphi has been very easy to work with and we just both look forward to handling a very clean, professional case,” Lebrato said.

bbm. So one of his new lawyers had previously commented on the strength of the evidence against him and the other comes out to basically outright say he believes in RA's guilt.

Isn't this against the gag order?

12/02/2022

Order Issued The Court issues an order granting the State's Motion for Order Prohibiting the Parties, Counsel, Law Enforcement Officials, Court Personnel, Coroner, and Family Members from Disseminating Information or Releasing Any Extra-Judicial Statements by Means of Public Communication in whole, pending hearing which the Court has scheduled for January 13, 2023 at 10:00 am in the Carroll Circuit Court. Violations of this Order are punishable as Contempt of Court and subject the violator to a fine and/or incarceration. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 12/02/2022

01/23/2023

Order Issued Court now grants in whole the State's Motion for Order Prohibiting the Parties, Counsel, Law Enforcement Officials, Court Personnel, Coroner, and Family Members from Disseminating Information or Releasing any Extra-Judicial Statements by Means of Public Communication. Court takes Defendant's Supplemental Motion for Discovery and Request for Rule 404 and 405 Evidence under advisement. Court acknowledges the Defendant's Motion for Change of Venue and agrees a jury could not be obtained in Carroll County. Pursuant to I.C. 35-36-6-11, a jury will be selected from another county and transported to Carroll County for trial. Counsel to notify the Court within a week if they can agree to a specific county. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 01/13/2023

Bbm - is it not an extra judicial statement via public communication to speak to the press about how this is simply an uncomplicated brutal double homicide?

 

[MistyWaters]

RA's new lawyer commented on the case

Allen County’s chief public defender says his office is prepared to take on Delphi killings case

Allen County Chief Public Defender William “Billy” Lebrato doesn’t believe the trial will impact the daily work of the department.

www.wane.com

bbm. So one of his new lawyers had previously commented on the strength of the evidence against him and the other comes out to basically outright say he believes in RA's guilt.

Isn't this against the gag order?

12/02/2022

Order Issued The Court issues an order granting the State's Motion for Order Prohibiting the Parties, Counsel, Law Enforcement Officials, Court Personnel, Coroner, and Family Members from Disseminating Information or Releasing Any Extra-Judicial Statements by Means of Public Communication in whole, pending hearing which the Court has scheduled for January 13, 2023 at 10:00 am in the Carroll Circuit Court. Violations of this Order are punishable as Contempt of Court and subject the violator to a fine and/or incarceration. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 12/02/2022

01/23/2023

Order Issued Court now grants in whole the State's Motion for Order Prohibiting the Parties, Counsel, Law Enforcement Officials, Court Personnel, Coroner, and Family Members from Disseminating Information or Releasing any Extra-Judicial Statements by Means of Public Communication. Court takes Defendant's Supplemental Motion for Discovery and Request for Rule 404 and 405 Evidence under advisement. Court acknowledges the Defendant's Motion for Change of Venue and agrees a jury could not be obtained in Carroll County. Pursuant to I.C. 35-36-6-11, a jury will be selected from another county and transported to Carroll County for trial. Counsel to notify the Court within a week if they can agree to a specific county. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 01/13/2023

Bbm - is it not an extra judicial statement via public communication to speak to the press about how this is simply an uncomplicated brutal double homicide?

I don’t view anything he said as violating a gag order, he’s introducing himself in working on behalf of RA. It’s public knowledge it was a brutal double homicide. It’s quite refreshing he’s aware of the focus of his role in defending RA.

“It’s a brutal homicide but Mr. Scremin and I will do our jobs and we’ll do it professionally like we always do and represent Mr. Allen to the best of our abilities.”

But perhaps he broke an unwritten rule in defense circles to never link the accused and the crime in the same sentence? I dunno.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

RA's new lawyer commented on the case

Allen County’s chief public defender says his office is prepared to take on Delphi killings case

Allen County Chief Public Defender William “Billy” Lebrato doesn’t believe the trial will impact the daily work of the department.

www.wane.com

bbm. So one of his new lawyers had previously commented on the strength of the evidence against him and the other comes out to basically outright say he believes in RA's guilt.

Isn't this against the gag order?

12/02/2022

Order Issued The Court issues an order granting the State's Motion for Order Prohibiting the Parties, Counsel, Law Enforcement Officials, Court Personnel, Coroner, and Family Members from Disseminating Information or Releasing Any Extra-Judicial Statements by Means of Public Communication in whole, pending hearing which the Court has scheduled for January 13, 2023 at 10:00 am in the Carroll Circuit Court. Violations of this Order are punishable as Contempt of Court and subject the violator to a fine and/or incarceration. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 12/02/2022

01/23/2023

Order Issued Court now grants in whole the State's Motion for Order Prohibiting the Parties, Counsel, Law Enforcement Officials, Court Personnel, Coroner, and Family Members from Disseminating Information or Releasing any Extra-Judicial Statements by Means of Public Communication. Court takes Defendant's Supplemental Motion for Discovery and Request for Rule 404 and 405 Evidence under advisement. Court acknowledges the Defendant's Motion for Change of Venue and agrees a jury could not be obtained in Carroll County. Pursuant to I.C. 35-36-6-11, a jury will be selected from another county and transported to Carroll County for trial. Counsel to notify the Court within a week if they can agree to a specific county. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 01/13/2023

Bbm - is it not an extra judicial statement via public communication to speak to the press about how this is simply an uncomplicated brutal double homicide?

Good question.
At least he didn't say their client was innocent.

 

[FrostedGlass]

ETA: Sorry for the redundant posting of this. I seem to have skipped an entire page of posts.

There are new filings in RA's Supreme Court case
You can go here to see all of the motions
23S-OR-00302

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

Or here to just view the new ones:
Unopposed motion for extension of time

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

Order granting motion for extension of time

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

The order is pretty brief so I'll just post it here. Is the part I put in red a normal action?

Order
On October 30, 2023, the Court set a briefing schedule in this matter requiring that any briefs opposing issuance of the writ must be filed directly with the Clerk of the Supreme Court on or before Thursday, November 9, 2023. Respondents, by counsel, have requested an extension of this deadline. In their motion, Respondents indicate that the Office of the Indiana Attorney General declined to represent Respondents in this matter; Respondents engaged new counsel on November 3, 2023; and counsel will require additional time to adequately respond to the issues presented in Relator’s petition. Being duly advised, the Court GRANTS Respondents’ “Unopposed Motion for Extension of Time to Respond to Petition for Writs of Mandamus and Prohibition.” Any briefs opposing issuance of the writ or any supplemental records must be filed directly with the Clerk of the Supreme Court on or before Thursday, November 16, 2023. Any supplemental record must be submitted in the same format required for the record under Original Action Rule 3(C) and(G). Once briefing is completed, the Court will take the matter under advisement. Done at Indianapolis, Indiana, on ___________.____________________________Loretta H. RushChief Justice of Indiana

 

[Ravenmoon]

"It’s not a death penalty case or an LWOP (life without parole) case, it’s just a double homicide which we do routinely, unfortunately, here in Allen County. The only impact it will have is the travel time to another county,” Lebrato said Thursday just after the quarterly public defender board meeting held at the Rousseau Centre."

What?
Someone please explain!
It's not a death penalty case or an LWOP case??

JUST A DOUBLE HOMICIDE???

I DON'T UNDERSTAND?!!!

What penalty are we looking at?
This freaks me out!

 

[CGBSpender]

"It’s not a death penalty case or an LWOP (life without parole) case, it’s just a double homicide which we do routinely, unfortunately, here in Allen County. The only impact it will have is the travel time to another county,” Lebrato said Thursday just after the quarterly public defender board meeting held at the Rousseau Centre."

What?
Someone please explain!
It's not a death penalty case or an LWOP case??

JUST A DOUBLE HOMICIDE???

I DON'T UNDERSTAND?!!!

What penalty are we looking at?
This freaks me out!

He's charged with Felony Murder ("FM"). FM doesn't require proof of intent to convict. Indiana requires proof of intent for the death penalty or LWOP to be on the table.

See: https://codes.findlaw.com/in/title-35-criminal-law-and-procedure/in-code-sect-35-50-2-9/

JMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

He's charged with Felony Murder ("FM"). FM doesn't require proof of intent to convict. Indiana requires proof of intent for the death penalty or LWOP to be on the table.

See: https://codes.findlaw.com/in/title-35-criminal-law-and-procedure/in-code-sect-35-50-2-9/

JMO

Oh. My. Good .....

So, does that mean that he ( if convicted)
Could possibly walk after a decade with good behavior?
Honestly, I feel even more heartbroken than ever.
2 girls. Gone. Erased.
Their lives mattered!

Apologies if I am being dramatic, but I had No Idea!!