IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #173

[girlhasnoname]

Defense attorney Bob Motta snagged the affidavit of the motion to transfer. We need a copy here.
Can he be confirmed as a credible source?

I don't think BM has ever been confirmed as an approved source officially.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

Yeah the scary group of Odinists/white supremacists that like to abduct and murder young white girls because...well I don't know why that would be? And IF the girls were catfished into a trap, as has been discussed as a possibility, why would these Odin-loving supremacists target a blonde girl with such a Germanic sounding name to entrap?

Yeah it makes more sense to me that IF Libby was set-up/catfished, it was by deviants within a network totally different than patch/tattoo wearing Odinists, a deviant network exposed by the largest child C S A M investigation in Indiana LE history. AJMO

To be fair, according to a few articles I read, it is possible that white supremacists groups sexualize or objectify the girls or women they consider desirable, including those that that identify as white, of European heritage or have Germanic names or titles. In particular, if there are members of white supramacist groups that both consume and promote the distribution of CSAM based on these populations it could lead to misogyny, violence, kidnapping, sexual exploitation and abuse against them as well as viewers become desensitized and engaged in dehumanizing discourse.

In other words, based on some of the articles I read, IMO, I think it is possible that white women and girls can be at risk for being targeted, harmed and victimized by white supremacists and the media they produce as well despite sharing sharing similar heritages or racial backgrounds as them.

JMO not trying to promote the Odinism theory but it was just something I was thinking about

https://www.justice.gov/d9/2023-06/child_sexual_abuse_material_2.pdf

Neo-Nazi Pedophilic Cult Member Allegedly Coerced Minors to Make Child Porn

Angel Almeida, a 22-year-old Queens man, has been charged with sexual exploitation of minors and possession of child 🤬🤬🤬🤬, among other alleged crimes.

www.vice.com

A white supremacist used messaging apps Discord, Kik, and a fringe kink website to groom a 12-year-old, according to a federal prosecutors

Federal prosecutors say Nathan Larson, indicted on kidnapping charges, used Discord and Kik to solicit sexual photos from a child.

www.businessinsider.com

Ryan Fleming: Neo-Nazi paedophile jailed for messaging children

The 30-year-old former member of National Action is jailed for contacting children on Instagram.

www.bbc.com

Gender and White Supremacist Violence - Political Violence at a Glance

Guest post by Elin Bjarnegård and Jennifer M. Piscopo Political leaders, media commentators, and academics have swiftly and…

politicalviolenceataglance.org

A white supremacist who has advocated for legalizing child porn was arrested and charged with kidnapping a 12-year-old girl he met online

Nathan Larson, who unsuccessfully ran for Congress in 2018, has called Hitler a 'white supremacist hero' and admitted that he was a pedophile.

www.businessinsider.com

ADL.org Report on Misogyny within White Supremacy:

When Women are the Enemy: The Intersection of Misogyny and White Supremacy

Misogyny is a dangerous and underestimated component of extremism, and it shares alarming common ground with white supremacist ideology.

www.adl.org

 

[mrjitty]

I don't think he's just landed, by judge's appointment, four spoiled and lying defense attorneys. If they can't effectively represent him due to the distance and his housing conditions, they can't effectively represent him. I don't think their claims in regards to their difficulty in meeting with RA, by either set of attorneys, sound terribly unreasonable on that basis. It's dangerous, imo, that this can't get figured out. Jmo.

I agree as to this aspect. Personally I suspect the defence is boxed in by whatever those admissions were.

On it's face the Cultist murder angle was raised in the investigation, so of course the defence will use it at trial. IMO they will use KAK as well. Why not? But I think the need to pretend there is some overarching conspiracy with prison guards is because the defendant said dumb things that have to be explained somehow.

 

[TL4S]

Agreed - it's absurd that yet more Odinists are after him.

The guy with the Odin type symbol tattoo on his face was at Westville, not Wabash. He got it around the time the patches were disallowed. Jmo, because it's according to Motta.

ETA: I think he's one of the guards who wrote a sworn affidavit about wearing the patch.
Affidavit

 

[Emma Peel]

RSBM. I also think it's about the larger view. However, I don't think, in regards to Judge G's alleged bias, that this motion is even allowed to influence the SCOIN hearing on the 18th, because in my understanding, nothing new since the original writ can be discussed there. I might have that wrong, IANAL, JMO and all that.

My other thought goes back to the AG moving RA from Westville to Wabash under:

Indiana Code 35-33-11-1 - alleging that an inmate in a county jail awaiting trial is in danger of serious bodily injury or death or represents a substantial threat to the safety of others, the court shall determine whether the inmate is in imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death, or represents a substantial threat to the safety of others.  If the court finds that the inmate is in danger of serious bodily injury or death or represents a substantial threat to the safety of others, it shall order the sheriff to transfer the inmate to another county jail or to a facility of the department of correction designated by the commissioner of the department as suitable for the confinement of that prisoner and provided that space is available.  For the purpose of this chapter, an inmate is not considered in danger of serious bodily injury or death due to an illness or other medical condition. https://codes.findlaw.com/in/title-35-criminal-law-and-procedure/in-code-sect-35-33-11-1/

What is the threat here? Is it coming from other inmates, who he's supposed to be segregated from? Himself, which put him under suicide watch at Westville? The guards? It isn't just two sets of defense attorneys saying there's a possible threat, but also the AG, so why? Location to his counsel cannot be the only issue, because the AG moved him even farther away. I'm not ready to make assumptions on any of it. I'm going to wait and see how this plays out. Fascinating.

It is super-interesting, and I'm also looking forward to the hypothetical arguments the Supreme Court will probe. The Courts (Judges) have great discretion, and at the same time, the Court is obligated to protect the Defendant's constitutional rights. What tips the scale?

SCOIN will have a short list of topics to probe. The topics will be examined in the hypothetical with an eye towards not just RA's case but all potential future cases with similar issues.

One of those topics could focuses on the 6th Amendment arguments raised in the Writ. The lower court's action removing RA counsel here has denied RA's right to a speedy trial. What are the negative repercussions to consider? Verdict reversal upon appeal? The defendant's mental and physical demise due to long-term solitaire holding conditions?

RA also has 8th amendment rights relating to conditions of pre-trial confinement (are conditions cruel/unusual/excessively harsh).

For these topics related to speedy trial repercussions - if raised - RA's well-being today would be relevant, IMO.

IMO, The threats under RA's holding conditions are all of the above - self-harm, threats from others in prison, AND the blocking RA's right to and access to a competent, vigorous defense.

all JMHO

 

[Emma Peel]

The guy with the Odin type symbol tattoo on his face was at Westville, not Wabash. He got it around the time the patches were disallowed. Jmo, because it's according to Motta.

ETA: I think he's one of the guards who wrote a sworn affidavit about wearing the patch.
Affidavit

Agree and noting that New D has had the opportunity to visit RA in both prisons.

I may have missed something but I don't think the motions makes no distinction between the 2 prisons as to the presence of Odinist guards in one vs the other.

I wonder if the (presumed) face-tattoo solution for the Westville guard had anything to do with RA's transfer out of Westville.

 

[TL4S]

Agree and noting that New D has had the opportunity to visit RA in both prisons.

I wonder if the (presumed) face-tattoo solution for the Westville guard had anything to do with RA's transfer out of Westville.

I wonder the same...

 

[Emma Peel]

"Habeas corpus only applies to the act of imprisonment and whether or not it's justified; it does not apply to prison conditions."

What Is The Writ Of Habeas Corpus?

What is a writ of habeas corpus? This writ protects people from being jailed illegally. In simple terms, habeas corpus means “produce the body.” A writ of habeas corpus is a court order that brings a defendant who is in jail or government custody in front of a judge and requires the government to

www.forbes.com

States detention nets can be different and therefore habeas corpus can be affected in different ways. The link below explains these fairly brief and then lists each state's...guidelines I guess you could call them? It is an interesting subject.

Indiana

“Offenses, other than murder or treason, shall be bailable by sufficient sureties. Murder or treason shall not be bailable, when the proof is evident, or the presumption strong.”

Ind. Const. Art. 1, § 17

Pretrial Release: Detention

State constitutions and statutes establish the foundation of the pretrial release/detention framework in every state. Most individuals who are arrested are eligible to be released before trial, with 41 state constitutions containing a right to bail.

www.ncsl.org

I don't think this forbes reference is fully accurate/complete.
This type of appeal is made under 6th and 8th amendment for the purpose of challenging pre-trial holding conditions. It is interesting. Gull's decision denied RA his speedy trial right ... which opens a number of pre-trial appeal avenues. Given it's high profile, RA has benefit of pro-bono appellate counsel (concerned about constitutional rights) ready to challenge the IN lower court here. JHMO

 

[susiQ]

There is an understandable need to protect him, but imagine if he is guilty of these murders and it gets overturned on appeals because of the way the court handled things. It's kind of a catch-22, but I think the situation needs to be addressed right away.

I agree 100% that this issue needs to be addressed, that RA needs to be protected. Imagine for a moment, that RA is innocent and being subjected to emotional, physical and medical abuse by guards and the establishment as a whole!? I understand this is not a popular sentiment on these threads but it appears to me that RA is being treated “differently” than the general prison population. JMO

 

[Emma Peel]

for instance:

https://x.com/Wienekelo/status/1745924080073650646?s=20

here Wieneke, RA's appellate counsel, while responding to a habeus litigator, is focused on unusual treatment re: RA's confinement
(8th amendment)

jmho

 

[girlhasnoname]

All of the clown show antics have done the most terrible disservice to Abby & Libby, who are the truly innocent victims here.

I can tick off 2-3 potential appellate issues right off the bat. Hopefully the SCOIN will be able to address those in their upcoming hearing. This case needs help in the most serious of ways.

Maybe that was the very purpose of the exD after all? I know it sounds crazy (not any crazier than the Killer Odinists and Stealing of CS Photos & Leaks, Suicide, and other stuff that's happened here) but maybe they've put RA in a position to overturn the very likely Guilty verdict when/if he ever gets to trial. IDK, but this is one crazy legal mess full of malarkey and shenanigans IMO. Look at the Murdaugh case, it's a runaway train wreck as well.

RA would be retried undoubtably (I hate to jinx myself with that), but it would be a complete mulligan for RA's Defense, who would then know exactly what the theory and the evidence supporting that theory the State has.

I will still eat my favorite golf visor if RA is not guilty. I know this group will not let me forget that promise, nor would I expect you to.

JMO

 

[Emma Peel]

Same question, different day: When is justice coming for Abby & Libby?

Very appreciative of your rhetorical question and a gentle reminder of the purpose of the main case.

But also, the question - When? - is a reasonable question, and we may see it addressed by the related SCOIN proceeding this week.

Broadly speaking, IMO, justice will come with a new judge.
Current judge means a higher risk of both further delays and guilty verdict reversals.
We can see the New D is positioning for appellate action as to Gull's pre-trial confinement decisions.

JHMO

 

[susiQ]

I will still eat my favorite golf visor if RA is not guilty. I know this group will not let me forget that promise, nor would I expect you to.

SBMFF
Well, I for one would not hold you to it! Golf visors don’t digest well and I would hate to see you in the ER explaining that!

I appreciate we don’t agree on this case, but I just cannot take the leap and pronounce him guilty based on the evidence, or lack thereof, we’ve seen. I also understand there are cases where the perp has pretty much convicted himself, Morphew, (should it ever go to trial), because he’s a complete imbecile. RA’s situation strikes me as very different. I’m convinced this crime was committed by more than one person. It may also have been committed FOR someone, who hides in the shadows of his chosen “brotherhood.”

No, I’m willing to wait to see what the actual evidence against RA is or did he just have the misfortune of being at the trails that day and being honest enough to come forward. Are there any connections at all with the Rushville clan? Any connections to KAK or the AS’s account? Some way, somehow, someone knew the girls would be there. From what I’ve learned, there could be a number of motives for this heinous crime, which I am not able to express here. I’m fine with that. That’s what the trial is for.

Something stinks in Delphi (and area) and not to heaven. More like to the pits of hell. JMHO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I knew it! Same ole' same ole'. RA was better off at Westville under 24/7 surveillance, he is a high profile, at risk Defendant IMO.

I doubt seriously that RA is being housed in Hannibal Lector fashion. Perhaps RA has been acting in a way that is unknown to the public (rightly so) that has put him in special protection. Attempts of self harm? Harming others? We just don't know. I would think Washburn would be even more careful in their treatment of RA because of all the bad publicity Westville got.

I think the new D has adopted the Evil Odin Theory that the exD set in place. Does every single guard, in every single jail or Correctional Facility in the State of Indiana have Odin tats and are conspiring to frame and torture RA? I'm sorry but this is a little too unbelievable for me.

JMO

I agree and add that, the only source concerning RA’s living conditions and his supposed abuse in prison is, once again, the defense.
Just like the only true source of Odinism involvement in the Franks memo was the ex-defense’s imagination and opinion.
Just like the only source of RA’s POW-like treatment and abuse last spring was the over the top misrepresentations and lies of the ex-defense.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Every state has a "detention net" and how they determine who gets bail or not and how they are housed is involved in that. I earlier linked a site that explains that a bit. I never knew there were so many different and sometimes confusing ways to say the same thing...it's certainly a maze.

This is not relevant to the extremely unusual housing and treatment of RA as a prison inmate. Other defendants not eligible for bail and awaiting trial do not go through any process that determines whether or not they will be held at a county/regional jail or put in a prison, which is only equipped with the means of housing felony convicted and sentenced inmates.

And unfortunately, been down this road already and no, I'm not sympathizing with RA or think he is innocent. Accept it as a fact that I believe everything should be done to ensure the trial and appeals go smoothly to keep RA's dead or in prison for the rest of his life.

 

[mrjitty]

If true, the judge should immediately address the access to counsel issues - the circumstances in the kitchen cell is just absurd as alleged. No way should something like that be happening.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

I am not a real believer in these vast conspiracies the defense puts forward. Especially the cult and how somehow the guards at the jail are in the cult too and harassing him. I also do not believe with such a high profile case as this that there is not a very good reason to keep his attorneys and everyone else protected from him. Everyone wants justice for Abby and Libby and purposely mistreating him or hindering his defense for no reason is just not what is happening because if so, justice won't happen for Abby and Libby. His other attorneys claimed he was mentally ill and maybe that is why the jail takes such extreme precaution when his attorneys visit. We only see one side right now. I know a lot of RA supporters are eating these claims up, but I believe he is bridge guy and I believe this will be shown beyond any shadow of a doubt in court. I dont think anyone, especially the prison guards and warden wants to see this guy walk on some technicality that because he was a danger to his attorneys, special precautions had to be taken therefore he didn't receive adequate representation.

I've also seen that his attorneys want him out of Indiana department of corrections. Where would he go then? I doubt they can put him in federal so how would that work exactly.

I also never forget the interview where Leazenby told us they had DNA.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

All of the clown show antics have done the most terrible disservice to Abby & Libby, who are the truly innocent victims here.

I can tick off 2-3 potential appellate issues right off the bat. Hopefully the SCOIN will be able to address those in their upcoming hearing. This case needs help in the most serious of ways.

Maybe that was the very purpose of the exD after all? I know it sounds crazy (not any crazier than the Killer Odinists and Stealing of CS Photos & Leaks, Suicide, and other stuff that's happened here) but maybe they've put RA in a position to overturn the very likely Guilty verdict when/if he ever gets to trial. IDK, but this is one crazy legal mess full of malarkey and shenanigans IMO. Look at the Murdaugh case, it's a runaway train wreck as well.

RA would be retried undoubtably (I hate to jinx myself with that), but it would be a complete mulligan for RA's Defense, who would then know exactly what the theory and the evidence supporting that theory the State has.

I will still eat my favorite golf visor if RA is not guilty. I know this group will not let me forget that promise, nor would I expect you to.

JMO

I am definitely not a lawyer or have any reliable expertise in the field so I could be wrong but I do truly hope that by working out through the links and concerns now, the court and all of the key factors or agents within it are able to avoid or reduce the risk of Libby’s and Abby’s families having to face the occurrence of a mistrial and the repercussions that come with one.

I recall the emotional and mental exhaustion and physical toll it took on my family when one occurred during the murder trial of one my relatives. I would prefer to see another family spared that traumatic or daunting experience as they seek justice for their children, themselves and their community.

With all the strength and grace Abby’s and Libby’s families have shown over the years they deserve better.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

If true, the judge should immediately address the access to counsel issues - the circumstances in the kitchen cell is just absurd as alleged. No way should something like that be happening.

“Alleged” is the important word.

 

[arielilane]

This is only an opinion and is subject to change (doubtful - though). Someone recently mentioned KAK though I can’t locate the post, my point is am surprised that the defense does not lean in more toward KAK as being their defense in lieu of the Odin theory.

KAK, had all the elements ... he knew LG would be on the trail that fateful day. KAK admitted that he communicated with LG. He was supposed to meet up with her at the bridge, but she was a no show. Kline searched "how long does DNA last" on his computer. KAK lied about talking with LG, initially. KAK would catfish young girls, ages 12 to 18 years of age.

He’s been convicted of other child-related crimes.

So did KAK direct someone else to the trail, tipping someone off to let them know that an impressionable young girl would be on the trail that day? Is KAK more of a suspect, and perhaps RA, was that someone receiving the tip/information, and decided to head over to the trail?

Bottom line: I’ll be extremely surprised if this case goes to trial - will RA live that long? I hope I am Wrong!

May justice be served for Abby & Libby.

Speculation. too.

https://people.com/delphi-victim-man-who-communicated-with-girl-sentenced-child-🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬-7567263

Published on July 28, 2023 05:46PM EDT