IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #173

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  • #421
I don't remember seeing the Westerman PCA. I didn't include the 2 signature pages.
It's from WRTV

N ) AFFIDAVIT OF PROBABLE CAUSE
1, Benjamin Rector, being duly sworn upon oath, states that:
1. 1 am employed as a law enforcement officer with the Indiana State Police (ISP). My current assignment is a detective in the Criminal Investigations Division.

2. Law enforcement was advised that on or about October Sth, 2023, that evidence from the ‘murder case of State of Indiana v. Richard Allen had been released to the public. There is currently an Order from the Court in that case prohibiting the release of evidence to the public. Law Enforcement was made aware that this evidence may have been obtained illegally and began an investigation. Law enforcement was able to retrieve the evidence from the creators of a podcast who stated that they got the evidence from an individual in Texas. Indiana State Police First Sergeant Jerry Holeman was able to identify the individual in Texas as Mark Robert Cohen. Mark Cohen was interviewed, and law enforcement obtained screen shots of a messages between Mark Cohen and an individual named Robert Fortson. Robert Fortson and Mark Cohen have various discussions about various pices of evidence involved in the Richard Allen case. 1, Indiana State Police Detective, Ben Rector, was assigned to assist in the investigation.

3. As part of the investigation. Affiant completed interviews with Attorneys Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin on October 12th, 2023, concerning the evidence that was taken without consent in regards to the representation of Richard Allen. Affiant previously knew that Rozzi and Baldwin were attorneys which were assigned to represent Richard Allen in his criminal charges.

4. During the course of the interview with Andrew Baldwin, Detective Rector learned that Baldwin is an associate of Mitchell Westerman. Baldwin has known Westerman for several years and Westerman was previously employed by Baldwin's law firm, Westerman is no longer employed by the law firm however he still routinely stops by the firm to visit with staff and Baldwin.

5. On Monday, October 9, 2023, Westerman contacted Baldwin around 4PM and requested to meet with him. They met at Baldwin's office shortly afterwards. Westerman told Baldwin that he had used his cellular phone to take photographs of photographs, which were in Baldwin's conference room area. The photographs depicted the crime scene related to the criminal charges against Richard Allen. Westerman stated that he had done this a couple of months prior and that he had shared them with an individual named Robert Fortson. Through the course of the investigation, law enforcement learned that Fortson shared these photos with another individual in Texas, Mark Cohen. Cohen then shared them with various creators of Youtube channels and podcasts.

6. Baldwin stated that based on the timing of events he believed that there were in fact crime scene photos from the Richard Allen case in the conference room when Westerman visited his office. He also stated that there would have been side by side photographs which were previously used by the defense team in depositions. The photographs that Baldwin described are consistent with photographs that affiant has viewed which were released ofthe crime scene. Baldwin stated that he did not authorize Westerman to take these photographs.

7. During an interview with Rozzi he also indicated that he did notauthorize Westerman to take the photographs. Rozzi further concluded that he believed that Westerman’s taking of the photographs constituted theft because he did not believe that anyone had authorized Westerman to take the photographs.

8. An affidavit was also provided to Allen County Judge Gull which states the following: “Comes now Mitchell Westerman being first duly sworn, under oath, and states that the following information is within his personal knowledge and is true to the best of his knowledge: 1. 1was in Attorney Andrew Baldwin's Office Building waiting to visit with Andrew. He was in his office either meeting with a client or on a telephone call with the door closed. 1 went into the conference room to wait. 2. I observed printed copies of photo evidence on the conference room table. I took pictures of a few of them. 3. Andrew Baldwin did not give me permission to take the photos of the printed copies, he was not present and he did not have any knowledge that I took pictures of the evidence photos. 4 Tam freely and voluntarily typing and signing this affidavit on my own accord because it is the truth.” This document indicates it was signed on October 18, 2023, by Mitchell Westerman and was also notarized.

9. Affiant further believes that the above-mentioned facts establish probable cause to believe that Mitchell Westerman has committed the act of Conversion (Indiana IC Code 3543-43).
 
  • #422
I don't remember seeing the Westerman PCA. I didn't include the 2 signature pages.
It's from WRTV

N ) AFFIDAVIT OF PROBABLE CAUSE
1, Benjamin Rector, being duly sworn upon oath, states that:
1. 1 am employed as a law enforcement officer with the Indiana State Police (ISP). My current assignment is a detective in the Criminal Investigations Division.

2. Law enforcement was advised that on or about October Sth, 2023, that evidence from the ‘murder case of State of Indiana v. Richard Allen had been released to the public. There is currently an Order from the Court in that case prohibiting the release of evidence to the public. Law Enforcement was made aware that this evidence may have been obtained illegally and began an investigation. Law enforcement was able to retrieve the evidence from the creators of a podcast who stated that they got the evidence from an individual in Texas. Indiana State Police First Sergeant Jerry Holeman was able to identify the individual in Texas as Mark Robert Cohen. Mark Cohen was interviewed, and law enforcement obtained screen shots of a messages between Mark Cohen and an individual named Robert Fortson. Robert Fortson and Mark Cohen have various discussions about various pices of evidence involved in the Richard Allen case. 1, Indiana State Police Detective, Ben Rector, was assigned to assist in the investigation.

3. As part of the investigation. Affiant completed interviews with Attorneys Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin on October 12th, 2023, concerning the evidence that was taken without consent in regards to the representation of Richard Allen. Affiant previously knew that Rozzi and Baldwin were attorneys which were assigned to represent Richard Allen in his criminal charges.

4. During the course of the interview with Andrew Baldwin, Detective Rector learned that Baldwin is an associate of Mitchell Westerman. Baldwin has known Westerman for several years and Westerman was previously employed by Baldwin's law firm, Westerman is no longer employed by the law firm however he still routinely stops by the firm to visit with staff and Baldwin.

5. On Monday, October 9, 2023, Westerman contacted Baldwin around 4PM and requested to meet with him. They met at Baldwin's office shortly afterwards. Westerman told Baldwin that he had used his cellular phone to take photographs of photographs, which were in Baldwin's conference room area. The photographs depicted the crime scene related to the criminal charges against Richard Allen. Westerman stated that he had done this a couple of months prior and that he had shared them with an individual named Robert Fortson. Through the course of the investigation, law enforcement learned that Fortson shared these photos with another individual in Texas, Mark Cohen. Cohen then shared them with various creators of Youtube channels and podcasts.

6. Baldwin stated that based on the timing of events he believed that there were in fact crime scene photos from the Richard Allen case in the conference room when Westerman visited his office. He also stated that there would have been side by side photographs which were previously used by the defense team in depositions. The photographs that Baldwin described are consistent with photographs that affiant has viewed which were released ofthe crime scene. Baldwin stated that he did not authorize Westerman to take these photographs.

7. During an interview with Rozzi he also indicated that he did notauthorize Westerman to take the photographs. Rozzi further concluded that he believed that Westerman’s taking of the photographs constituted theft because he did not believe that anyone had authorized Westerman to take the photographs.

8. An affidavit was also provided to Allen County Judge Gull which states the following: “Comes now Mitchell Westerman being first duly sworn, under oath, and states that the following information is within his personal knowledge and is true to the best of his knowledge: 1. 1was in Attorney Andrew Baldwin's Office Building waiting to visit with Andrew. He was in his office either meeting with a client or on a telephone call with the door closed. 1 went into the conference room to wait. 2. I observed printed copies of photo evidence on the conference room table. I took pictures of a few of them. 3. Andrew Baldwin did not give me permission to take the photos of the printed copies, he was not present and he did not have any knowledge that I took pictures of the evidence photos. 4 Tam freely and voluntarily typing and signing this affidavit on my own accord because it is the truth.” This document indicates it was signed on October 18, 2023, by Mitchell Westerman and was also notarized.

9. Affiant further believes that the above-mentioned facts establish probable cause to believe that Mitchell Westerman has committed the act of Conversion (Indiana IC Code 3543-43).

The one thing still missing is the “why”.
Why in the world would anyone do this?
MW has a lot more explaining to do.
 
  • #423
The one thing still missing is the “why”.
Why in the world would anyone do this?
MW has a lot more explaining to do.
Maybe he plans to do that at his jury trial?

I'm curious as to why the time delay between when he took the pics and when they were "found" by MS.
 
  • #424
Maybe he plans to do that at his jury trial?

I'm curious as to why the time delay between when he took the pics and when they were "found" by MS.
I'm curious as to what his defense is going to be since he already admitted in the affidavit that he's guilty of taking something that wasn't his to take without permission...well without the permission of AB.

So did someone else besides AB say, yeah sure go on in the conference room and wait. Oh, check out the discovery laid out there and take some pictures of it for yourself, if you want?
 
  • #425
I'm curious as to what his defense is going to be since he already admitted in the affidavit that he's guilty of taking something that wasn't his to take without permission...well without the permission of AB.

So did someone else besides AB say, yeah sure go on in the conference room and wait. Oh, check out the discovery laid out there and take some pictures of it for yourself, if you want?
It seems as though he doesn't have a defense. His crime is only a criminal misdemeanor; he probably could have pleaded that down to probation. He must have a good reason for wanting a jury trial. The judge isn't too excited about the idea, apparently. Maybe he'll change his mind.

If there is someone here who can explain what he might want with this, it would be much appreciated:
Motion for Evidence Rule 404(b) Disclosure
404(b) and 405 Notice


12/04/2023Jury Trial Demand Filed
Motion for Trial by Jury
Filed By: Westerman, Mitchell Thomas
File Stamp: 12/04/2023
12/05/2023Order Issued
Order on Request for in Court Video Recorder entered. Request is DENIED at this time.cd
Judicial Officer: Cummins, Douglas B.
Order Signed: 12/04/2023
 
  • #426
It seems as though he doesn't have a defense. His crime is only a criminal misdemeanor; he probably could have pleaded that down to probation. He must have a good reason for wanting a jury trial. The judge isn't too excited about the idea, apparently. Maybe he'll change his mind.

If there is someone here who can explain what he might want with this, it would be much appreciated:
Motion for Evidence Rule 404(b) Disclosure
404(b) and 405 Notice


12/04/2023Jury Trial Demand Filed
Motion for Trial by Jury
Filed By: Westerman, Mitchell Thomas
File Stamp: 12/04/2023
12/05/2023Order Issued
Order on Request for in Court Video Recorder entered. Request is DENIED at this time.cd
Judicial Officer: Cummins, Douglas B.
Order Signed: 12/04/2023
So he wants it recorded on video and the judge denied it. It's a misdemeanor charged offense, he wants a trial by jury and wants it recorded on video for what...posterity? Almost like he wants to drop a bombshell defense and have it on camera. Idk what his thoughts are but it all seems very melodramatic for a slap on the wrist judgement a judge would be able to give him. Maybe he's thinking he going to be civil sued?
 
  • #427
The one thing still missing is the “why”.
Why in the world would anyone do this?
MW has a lot more explaining to do.

Speculating only, but it seems kind of obvious.

Some day, the truth may be revealed but for now it's better to focus on the upcoming trial. Let's hope the new attorneys aren't up to shady business and the judicial process can proceed.
 
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  • #428
So he wants it recorded on video and the judge denied it. It's a misdemeanor charged offense, he wants a trial by jury and wants it recorded on video for what...posterity? Almost like he wants to drop a bombshell defense and have it on camera. Idk what his thoughts are but it all seems very melodramatic for a slap on the wrist judgement a judge would be able to give him. Maybe he's thinking he going to be civil sued?
JMO, he's hoping to drag out the process, potentially costing the state a lot of money in hopes they will drop the charges or offer him some plea deal.

The state really shouldn't let this pass. JMO, doing so would really lower the bar. With so much social media involvement in trials these days, it would trigger a lot of bad behavior by defense attorneys hoping to use SM to sway public opinion while personally cashing in.

<modsnip: off topic>
 
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  • #429
RA probably was not a victim of poofy "hat hair" IMO

Footnote 155 from the memo:
"Find attached a transcript of a statement of Richard Allen’s wife, Kathy marked as Exhibit 111. When Kathy was
asked what length Richard’s hair would have been in 2017, she Kathie said Richard has “always” had short hair. In
fact, when ask for further description of how her husband has always worn his hair, Kathy said “He (Richard)
shaved it.” explaining that he had always shaved since being in the National Guard."
I have no access to the advertising, but I'm reading, that CVS has wigs .....
 
  • #430
I have no access to the advertising, but I'm reading, that CVS has wigs .....
Possible but not probable. MOO
If there had been one at his house, I'm sure they would have taken it in the search.
 
  • #431
Agree. They saying there is an accomplice because they have to explain how and why they aren't charging him with the actual murders. If they actually believed there was an accomplice they's be doing all they could to roll him. The case stinks. All jmo
I also think this case stinks from the negligent actions of the defense team and their friend (s). But mostly it stinks for Libby, Abby and their loved ones. Many seem to glaze over and turn a blind eye to the fact that RA has confessed no less than 5 times to his wife and mother. That didn't occur because under interrogation LE pressured him into doing so or because some patch-wearing prison guards threatened his family. It happened the way it did, talking to his wife and mother, because he was guilty and wanted to confess. AJMO
 
  • #432
I have no access to the advertising, but I'm reading, that CVS has wigs .....
Yep they do sell wigs. I don't know if it's in every CVS store nationwide but some stores in my area do carry wigs.
 
  • #433
JMO, he's hoping to drag out the process, potentially costing the state a lot of money in hopes they will drop the charges or offer him some plea deal.

The state really shouldn't let this pass. JMO, doing so would really lower the bar. With so much social media involvement in trials these days, it would trigger a lot of bad behavior by defense attorneys hoping to use SM to sway public opinion while personally cashing in.
What is it that the state shouldn't let pass and how would they do it?
Westerman has a right to trial, and what defendant doesn't hope charges will be reduced/dropped/plea deal? Misdemeanor charges cases routinely go to the day of trial and are adjudicated then. Defense attorneys, especially public defenders, are not in favor of going to trial on misdemeanors, I don't see any cashing-in opportunity for Westerman. MOO

<modsnip: quoted post was snipped>
 
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  • #434
What is it that the state shouldn't let pass and how would they do it?
Westerman has a right to trial, and what defendant doesn't hope charges will be reduced/dropped/plea deal? Misdemeanor charges cases routinely go to the day of trial and are adjudicated then. Defense attorneys, especially public defenders, are not in favor of going to trial on misdemeanors, I don't see any cashing-in opportunity for Westerman. MOO

<modsnip: quoted post was snipped>
The state shouldn’t drop or reduce charges as part of an agreement to avoid a jury trial. I agree, he should face full punishment.

As in the recent example of profiteering, there seem to creative ways in which defense attorneys can benefit by providing advice on media deals. It may or may not happen in this case, but allowing defense attorneys to tie up the courts in defense of attorney friends who copy and leak extremely sensitive evidence in a high profile murder trial can cause problems in the future.
 
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  • #435
What is it that the state shouldn't let pass and how would they do it?
Westerman has a right to trial, and what defendant doesn't hope charges will be reduced/dropped/plea deal? Misdemeanor charges cases routinely go to the day of trial and are adjudicated then. Defense attorneys, especially public defenders, are not in favor of going to trial on misdemeanors, I don't see any cashing-in opportunity for Westerman. MOO

<modsnip: quoted post was snipped>

But he has not explained WHY he did it. That needs to be determined.
 
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  • #436
It may or may not happen in this case, but allowing defense attorneys to tie up the courts in defense of attorney friends who copy and leak extremely sensitive evidence in a high profile murder trial can cause problems in the future.
As in the recent example of profiteering, there seem to creative ways in which defense attorneys can benefit by providing advice on media deals.

Electing a jury trial is not "defense attorneys being allowed to tie up the courts".
It's in Johnson County and I'm sure it handles a lot of misdemeanor cases, routinely. It is not relevant who is friends with the defendant, Waterman has the same options as any other defendant, no more, no less. I just don't see any link to "criminal profiteering".

But he has not explained WHY he did it. That needs to be determined.
I'm not sure how that relates to my post, but the WHY is not anything that can be forced from the defendant or something the prosecution is tasked with determining/supplying to a jury.
The defendant can offer some excuse or reason to the court, maybe to help mitigate sentencing but it's not required.
 
  • #437
Electing a jury trial is not "defense attorneys being allowed to tie up the courts".
It's in Johnson County and I'm sure it handles a lot of misdemeanor cases, routinely. It is not relevant who is friends with the defendant, Waterman has the same options as any other defendant, no more, no less. I just don't see any link to "criminal profiteering".


I'm not sure how that relates to my post, but the WHY is not anything that can be forced from the defendant or something the prosecution is tasked with determining/supplying to a jury.
The defendant can offer some excuse or reason to the court, maybe to help mitigate sentencing but it's not required.
I sort of wonder if the WHY is why he wants a jury trial. To share that on the record.
 
  • #438
Electing a jury trial is not "defense attorneys being allowed to tie up the courts".
It's in Johnson County and I'm sure it handles a lot of misdemeanor cases, routinely.

My comment is based on years of experience helping cancer patients undergoing treatment. I learned when helping patients facing eviction, if the patient asks for a jury trial they can usually ward off eviction for a while longer until we can help them find a new place to live. Not always possible, but sometimes its the only way to keep them from stopping treatment and dying.

Hence, asking for a jury trial on a non-felony or minor civil issue is a way to stall or motivate someone to settle.
 
  • #439
I have no access to the advertising, but I'm reading, that CVS has wigs .....
I find it very telling that in order to explain RA as BG we are at the point of hypothesizing that he bought a wig at his work place and put it on to walk past several witnesses without covering his face, despite working with the public daily in the small town, on his way to commit double murder or a kidnapping, and then put on a hat to cover the wig while approaching his victims.
This makes absolutely no sense IMO.
I sort of wonder if the WHY is why he wants a jury trial. To share that on the record.
He probably wants a jury trial because he doesn’t think his actions are criminal conversion. DH and Shay Hughes, Indiana defense attorneys, agree and think he has a very good case to be found not guilty.
 
  • #440
I find it very telling that in order to explain RA as BG we are at the point of hypothesizing that he bought a wig at his work place and put it on to walk past several witnesses without covering his face, despite working with the public daily in the small town, on his way to commit double murder or a kidnapping, and then put on a hat to cover the wig while approaching his victims.
This makes absolutely no sense IMO.

He probably wants a jury trial because he doesn’t think his actions are criminal conversion. DH and Shay Hughes, Indiana defense attorneys, agree and think he has a very good case to be found not guilty.
About a possible wig we were talking already, when RA wasn't in the play yet. It isn't a new idea. Disguise (IF) can be anything, from scarf to hat to wig to jeans, which are too long, or shoes, which the perp usually didn't wore.
 
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