IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #173

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  • #741
@alcaprari23

Justice asks what exact points of ineffectiveness existed for these defense attorneys to call for them to be removed? Responds with case law which says there does not need to be proof of ineffectiveness, just potential they could be ineffective.


11:38 AM · Jan 18, 2024


Chief Justice wants to get this case moving again and avoid more delays. Her thoughts: If Richard Allen wants these attorneys and there's no proof of incompetence, then why not just reinstate them and get the show on the road?


11:40 AM · Jan 18, 2024
 
  • #742
As of this moment in the hearing, it is looking to me like SCOIN is leaning toward reinstatement of ex-D.

It is feeling contentious. The speaking attorney, Gutwein, keeps saying “again…”. Never good.

jmo
 
  • #743
I wasn't overly impressed with Leeman, but he did get in the fact in the last few minutes that if they didn't find relief, the upcoming trial (Oct 24) would basically be a trial for 'show'.
 
  • #744
@alcaprari23

Ms. Sanchez, acting on behalf of the Attorney General's Office now takes the stand."There is nothing clear or absolute about this case...the legal issues before the court or the nature of the rights that Mr. Allen's counsel seems to indicate..."


11:48 AM · Jan 18, 2024

Sanchez argues trial courts are not just tasked with protecting the defendant's rights to counsel but also the integrity of the entire justice system, the reliability of the truth-seeking function.


11:49 AM · Jan 18, 2024
 
  • #745
ExD will get reinstated, most likely.
Then, they will get recused.
Then, the trail will get pushed back further.
3 ring circus.


JMO
 
  • #746
Did she want to be saved by the bell? RA has the right to choose his own representation. Right? This is the good ole USA. My understanding is there is something not right that is going on. moo
 
  • #747
@alcaprari23

Sanchez is finished. Now a rebuttal from a defense.Defense corrects the record that Richard Allen was aware and knew what was going on around him, particularly about the leak of crime scene photos. He reads a letter that was filed to the courts, where Allen says he knew about the impact of the leak and says even still, he wants his attorneys to continue to represent him.


11:57 AM · Jan 18, 2024

He says defense attorney's have an ethical duty to represent their client with zeal, which they have done always. Defense says Judge Gull had an absolute duty to ensure the defendant's needs and wants are met, and Judge Gull did not follow that duty. Based on the letter Allen wrote, the Judge did not follow his direct and clear wishes.


11:59 AM · Jan 18, 2024
 
  • #748
They're going to reinstate, I think. But one justice just asked defense guy if the old defense wants to be reinstated as public defenders OR pro bono, LOL
 
  • #749
Could someone summarize what is happening in court today? I haven't been keeping up 100% and am confused by the tweets. Thank you!
 
  • #750
Leeman must have drunk a Mountain Dew while Sanchez was speaking. He has come out stronger and clearer this time IMO.
 
  • #751
And it's over. Wow that went fast.
 
  • #752
Are they coming back today??
 
  • #753
SCOIN said they’d provide an answer as soon as possible. Is there a statutory limit as to when a decision needs to be made?
 
  • #754
Are they coming back today??
No I understand they will be reviewing and making a decision soon. Whatever 'soon' means I don't know. LOL
 
  • #755
@alcaprari23

Defense argues Allen could waive a claim of ineffective assistance of counsel. That is his right, defense argues. But he says that Judge Gull's arguments don't even meet the criteria for ineffective assistance of counsel."The judge exceeded her jurisdiction and refused to meet Allen's wishes. There is more clarity than we see in records across the state as to what this client's wishes are. They are undisputed. And the Judge had a duty to respect what he wanted..."The justices commend both arguments and says they will issue a ruling as soon as possible. Court is adjourned.


12:04 PM · Jan 18, 2024
 
  • #756
  • #757
RICHARD ALLEN #DelphiMurders LIVE THREAD

Richard Allen is accused of murdering two teenagers in Delphi, Indiana in 2017. Today his case goes before the Indiana Supreme Court to decide if his attorneys should be reinstated, the trial judge removed and a speedy trial enacted.




We have just been allowed into the courtroom. It will be a full house today. There was a limited number of approved media and about 50 members of the general public who showed up early enough to get a ticket. Obviously this case has captured mass national attention.

The court administrator is reminding everyone that this will be a civil hearing. No disruptions, no shouting, no photos or video unless you are the approved pool camera. Earlier, they reminded everyone not to wear buttons or show support for one side over the other.

The Supreme Court of Indiana is now in session.Counsel for Richard Allen will argue first. Oral arguments will be two minutes to begin and then the justices can ask questions. There will be rebuttals.

Allen's counsel is arguing the judicial system is undermined when an entire legal team is removed. The judge took "clearly coercive action" to sever the relationship between Allen and defense, he says. He says the judge exceeded her jurisdiction, crossing the barrier of neutrality and "entered the realm of being an advocate.”

Justices ask counsel to define the difference between authority and jurisdiction. He says the judge is under an absolute duty to act under the wishes of the defendant. In this case, the defendant wants his legal team.

Chief Justice asks why Allen's team didn't file their motion for a speedy trial during the trial phase. Richard Allen signed off on it, but his attorneys didn't file it. Chief Justice questions if she can rule on that motion if it didn't even go through the lower court process.

Defense: The client has the autonomy to choose the direction of his representation...he is allowed to waive any concerns and proceed with his lawyers…

Defense is getting heated, raising his voice at the growing concerns being raised by the justices about the merit of his argument. He is professional, but he is agitated.

Defense argues that Judge Gull never even held a hearing to voice her concerns about alleged negligence and incompetence. She just made the decision without a discussion.Justice Goff questions if this truly is a case for the Indiana Supreme Court: "If we were to agree with you about the arguments you made, why is it that the regular appellate process is wholly insufficient?

Defense: "There is no evidence of incompetence. Certainly no evidence of trial incompetence... This is more than just a choice of counsel case. This is interference of counsel and the right to counsel itself.”

Justice Molter asks a great question. If the Supreme Court reinstates these defense attorneys and Allen is convicted of killing these two girls, could he be entitled to post-conviction relief due to ineffective counsel for all the reasons being discussed today?

The inadvertent disclosure of pre-trial evidence has no impact on the case or the defense trial strategy, defense argues.
Defense: "If the client is fully aware of these proceedings and still wants to proceed with his attorneys, the judge has a duty to act on his wishes.”

Defense's oral argument is over. Now comes the attorney representing Judge Frances Gull.He cites previous case law and says SCOTUS has already ruled on 6th amendment arguments. He says Gull was acting within her rights to protect the constitutional rights of a defendant.

Attorney says by law, a trial judge is to be given broad discretion to make these types of decisions.
Chief Justice acknowledges that Gull did not call a formal hearing to discuss her thinking and potential decision-making about defense counsel, which she says would have been the right process to follow. Wonders aloud if she did act beyond her authority.

Justice asks what exact points of ineffectiveness existed for these defense attorneys to call for them to be removed? Responds with case law which says there does not need to be proof of ineffectiveness, just potential they could be ineffective.

Chief Justice wants to get this case moving again and avoid more delays. Her thoughts: If Richard Allen wants these attorneys and there's no proof of incompetence, then why not just reinstate them and get the show on the road?

Ms. Sanchez, acting on behalf of the Attorney General's Office now takes the stand."There is nothing clear or absolute about this case...the legal issues before the court or the nature of the rights that Mr. Allen's counsel seems to indicate…”

Sanchez argues trial courts are not just tasked with protecting the defendant's rights to counsel but also the integrity of the entire justice system, the reliability of the truth-seeking function.

Sanchez is finished. Now a rebuttal from a defense.Defense corrects the record that Richard Allen was aware and knew what was going on around him, particularly about the leak of crime scene photos. He reads a letter that was filed to the courts, where Allen says he knew about the impact of the leak and says even still, he wants his attorneys to continue to represent him.

He says defense attorney's have an ethical duty to represent their client with zeal, which they have done always. Defense says Judge Gull had an absolute duty to ensure the defendant's needs and wants are met, and Judge Gull did not follow that duty. Based on the letter Allen wrote, the Judge did not follow his direct and clear wishes.

Defense argues Allen could waive a claim of ineffective assistance of counsel. That is his right, defense argues. But he says that Judge Gull's arguments don't even meet the criteria for ineffective assistance of counsel."The judge exceeded her jurisdiction and refused to meet Allen's wishes. There is more clarity than we see in records across the state as to what this client's wishes are. They are undisputed. And the Judge had a duty to respect what he wanted..."The justices commend both arguments and says they will issue a ruling as soon as possible. Court is adjourned.
 
  • #758
This is so frustrating.

The exD removed themselves.
They didn't want to have a hearing that day.
Why??
So instead, they will be reinstated.
Are they just praying that Judge Gull wont set another hearing and the controversy just dies?
Does exD want the judge removed to save face?
I hope that the trial DOES move forward quickly. It's best for everyone involved.


JMO
 
  • #759
SCOIN said they’d provide an answer as soon as possible. Is there a statutory limit as to when a decision needs to be made?

Several times it was stated that they, the SC Justices, want the case back on track. Their decision will be forthcoming rapidly, is my impression. The proper decision will be made but time has been lost.

We would be watching RA's trail for the kidnapping and murder of these two wonderful children right now if not for the Judge ambushing the Defense attorneys. Today the D's attorney made it clear that the actions of JG unequivocally stopped the D's case in its tracks.
 
  • #760
Does anyone know if initial defense attorney who did not conceal/protect (crime scene photos) evidence was ever reprimanded? If so, TIA
 
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