Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #86

[carbuff]

I don't think it has been established what was taken out from under TB's trailer. What I am wondering is all the early articles talked about he discarded his clothes. Would hiding your clothes on your property be the same as discarding them.

That's a good point. Ordinarily I would think discarding meant something akin to throwing away, not just hiding them. But it seems that neither LE nor the media are necessarily precise with their language...

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The STL sheriff stated that they contacted Delphi because that crime was at the "top of the list" of the FBI's list of similar crimes, when STL was still looking for a suspect. In my opinion that indicates more than just similarities in clothing. The longer things are quiet right now, the more hopeful I become. I may eventually be proven to be a Pollyanna here but that's how I feel right now.

 

[Inthedetails]

Of course it is also possible that they are clothes not from that day (or for that matter, his clothing). .

Snipped and bolded because my eyes just popped out of my head.

What if the clothing belongs to the victims? A heartless perp just might leave his victims naked, to further victimize them.

Remember at the Delphi murder, LE mentioned the perp might be carrying a bag. Did that perp take the girls' clothes too?

jmo

 

[Lore Listener]

<modsnip - discussing non-POI for this case>

At this point I don't think he's involved or not getting my hopes up is more like it. I still think DN did it and they don't have the piece they need to pursue him. jmo

I find this fascinating because I still harbor this thought too. I thought I was the only one! I was chagrinned to hear DN came back to Colorado and disgusted by his insistence in the Gazette article that he's a victim and that his multiple sex crimes (including hiding out in a women's restroom to terrorize a mother and child by masturbating at them) and threatening folks with deadly weapons and breaking his wife's nose in front of their children were just understandable screw-ups by a poor feller who can't catch a break. I'm not mentally letting him off the hook for Tim Watkins yet either. Just because they can't prove he did in a court of law right now, doesn't mean he didn't.

Oh, and the BG sketch! That bulbous nose and beady wide-set eyes are so DN.

And, quite frankly, I think TB has strong potential too: the sheer rage and (sexual) hatred of females that prompted his crimes and that he boasted about frequently online, the traveling around in that part of the country, the arrogance. And he looks "enough" like the sketch as well. The facial hair is perfect.

I also wanted to mention something that I wrote about early on in the interest into DN. We've all been watching too many crime shows and serial killer movies, IMHO. The vast majority of the time, people do not get away with heinous crimes because they are criminal masterminds who have outsmarted LE with their dazzling intellect. They get super lucky, or they're transient types with few ties and no connection to the victim, or LE is just plain incompetent, or it's a full moon, or who knows. So just because these guys are dull and dumb as box of rocks, doesn't mean they aren't the guy we're looking for. Remember, studies have indicated that serial killers actually have a lower average IQ than the general population. IMO, when A&L's killer is finally caught, he will be boring and not very bright.

 

[minazoe]

Thank you. I really appreciate your response. Totally hear you and do agree that there is that innate desire for there to be “something”... (when hoping to be able to identify ”something” indacative of deviancy) something to quantify, to point to, to give rational or lack of rational and therefore some sort of meaning to.

Personally I had considered that he might have hid the clothes he wore the day of the crime in a paper bag under the trailer. Maybe he anticipated his wife mighf ask why the blue coat he loves was suddenly not being worn and he didn’t want to raise her suspicions. Not sure how to deal with it for the time being maybe he hid it thinking he would figure out later what to do. Of course it is also possible that they are clothes not from that day (or for that matter, his clothing). If that is the case well then we certainly have a different story... one that supports your line of questioning and makes it all the more robust.

Im sure he hid the clothes because of blood splatter/brain fluid and blowback from the gun. MOO

 

[minazoe]

jus to elaborate a little...the wife may have never seen him wear those clothes, wonder if the police have asked her if BG looks like her husband.

and yes DN still haunts.

 

[raja]

I truly think if DN was involved he would have been identified as the killer of A&L by now. I think it is very interesting that the local media is quite on TB. This was not the case with DN. I just can not grasp killing someone so cold blooded as a first time kill as TB did and continuing on with more sexual abuse to the witnesses. I don't care who you are, killing your first human being has got to be a mind trip. If he never killed before I don't think he could have continued as he did. JMHO

 

[minazoe]

you know

the only thing we never got DN on when we were trying to connect dots... we never had him doing a physical sexual assault on a woman with a gun involved , we never had that.

we had the general area, weak iffy alibi, multiple arrests and convictions, we had alot of stuff...gun ownership..anti social lifestyle..

but this guy is more mature and we have him with multiple victims with a gun.

as someone said earlier...I too am wondering if he talked about anything to these women in the commission of this crime.

he's been doing this...he's done it before, it's just common sense, this person may have stopped for awhile and come back... he could be another golden state..another grim sleeper,

there are a lot of cases unsolved.
Mania and Psychosis is certainly not unusual in the pool of serial killers, there is always that underlying mental illness component, how can there not be?

organically , something is wrong. something is evil and demented...and it starts very young, and even very young children know when they have done wrong, and they soon learn to hide it.

it starts here, I believe that. IMO

 

[Jabarn]

I think only a fool would disagree. I am completely in support of everything you said... I hope you are not directing that at me for my opinion. Poor grammar or not. I am also entitled to my opinion and don’t appreciate anyone being overly virtuous. I do want you to know I respect your posts very much however.

Not all all! I am 100% with you.

Snipped and bolded because my eyes just popped out of my head.

What if the clothing belongs to the victims? A heartless perp just might leave his victims naked, to further victimize them.

Remember at the Delphi murder, LE mentioned the perp might be carrying a bag. Did that perp take the girls' clothes too?

jmo

Thank you for bringing that point back up. Yes, the look for a bag was suggested after the Delphi crime was brought to the world’s attention. I wasn’t sure then, or now, what the relevancy is.

I do think, after I was corrected when posting about how TB discarded his clothes after the crime- TB’s charge of tampering with evidence- he did hide his clothes for the Catholic Supply murder and assaults under his trailer.

(I imagined then the newsboy hat and blue jacket were found in a sidewalk trash can near the strip mall- as he made his way out from the crime scene, but there is an article that says his clothes were found at his residence- I can’t find it now though).

This involves his purposeful intention to hide his own, perhaps compromised, clothing.

Why I was confused:

Police were eventually able to track down some of the gunman's clothing, which they claim Bruce discarded.

Thomas Bruce Charged with Murder, Sodomy in St. Louis Catholic Supply Shooting

The reason for hiding his clothes shows he is more of an organized type offender.

What else the investigators found in the trailer may have to wait until his trial, or if dots are connected to Delphi or other crimes. FWIW and IMO.

****
Older article that shows the interest in his clothing with the Delphi case (news moves so fast!)

Police Files Charges for Murder, Sexual Assault at Catholic Supply Store

 

[crhedBngr]

Snipped and bolded because my eyes just popped out of my head.

What if the clothing belongs to the victims? A heartless perp just might leave his victims naked, to further victimize them.

Remember at the Delphi murder, LE mentioned the perp might be carrying a bag. Did that perp take the girls' clothes too?

jmo

RBBM

Wow, that's a thought! If TB had other victims, who knows what he stashed under his home? Should be interesting as this plays out . . .

 

[Jabarn]

Thanks for everyone who visits this thread every day and also pays attention to any angle that might provide a clue.

The family is not out for revenge and seem so nice. They all seem like while they would like to know who did it, they mostly want to remember the girls and pay tribute to them.

I am a member of a FB group where a family member of one of the girls is a member, and everything is positive on the life and legacy of the girls. It seems they stay focused on spreading the images and voice of BG. Awesome and brave families for Abby and Libby.

TB os not looking like a good lead for me now, as were any of the others mentioned by name. Hopefully, these families willl have some closure for what happened to their daughters sooner rather than later.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

Just wanted to post this since it is being discussed:

"We're trying to get people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland, that were on the interstate, that were in Logansport that might have saw somebody walking, hitchhiking-- if they saw a duffle bag laying somewhere, anything. We're just reaching out for people that saw anything within that distance," Riley said.

Tips pour in after suspect identified in Delphi double homicide

MOO

 

[mpnola]

Just wanted to post this since it is being discussed:

"We're trying to get people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland, that were on the interstate, that were in Logansport that might have saw somebody walking, hitchhiking-- if they saw a duffle bag laying somewhere, anything. We're just reaching out for people that saw anything within that distance," Riley said.

Tips pour in after suspect identified in Delphi double homicide

MOO

That quote right there is the one that never fit for me. Like, this piece of the puzzle needs more explanation! Because it seems big!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The bag: Maybe someone saw a person with duffle bag. Later on the same person was seen without duffle bag.
Or someone saw a lonely duffle bag on the road side. Later on the same person drove along and the bag was gone.
Something like that perhaps? Otherwise LE couldn't have known of a bag.

 

[margarita25]

Who killed Abby and Libby?

ETA:

So many people resemble BG imo

Hoping for voice match..(DNA is another subject imo )


(Go) Down the hill

(Go)Down the hill


ABIGAIL WILLIAMS

LIBERTY GERMAN — FBI

ETA most chilling audio of a perp ever. Smart, strong girls. The world is looking for BG and we are not giving up. The day that BG is behind bars is going to be the biggest day on WS ever!
Only a matter of time moo.
@Foxfire
@los2188

Help us catch this b@$t@rd

 

[margarita25]

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/abigail-williams/@@download.pdf

It’s only a matter of time imo before BG is apprehended—-clear as day Voice sample and directives, image, sketch, possible DNA, high probability to reoffend.... Moo.

 

[kkdj]

I think the bag might be a big clue. My thought has been BG took the girls clothing in a missing bag because some of their clothing is missing......jmo

 

[kkdj]

Did TP take the womens clothing?

 

[margarita25]

Here’s to the arrest of BG in 2019. My heartfelt wish.

 

[kkdj]

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/abigail-williams/@@download.pdf

It’s only a matter of time imo before BG is apprehended—-clear as day Voice sample and directives, image, sketch, possible DNA, high probability to reoffend.... Moo.

And I think once caught, a history of offenses will be resolved.