Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #86

[Inthedetails]

There's more info in this story ! Accused Catholic Supply store killer tied to September home invasion

Thanks for the posting here to alert everyone of the development! There is discussion about this on the STL thread:

MO - St. Louis County - Man enters store, commits sexual assault & murder, 19 November 2018 *Arrest*

Check it out!

 

[Inthedetails]

European begs for a little excerpt of the news article. TIA
(Not available for me despite our global world.)

I'll post some quotes over on the STL thread.

 

[Inthedetails]

I'm bringing part of the convo from the STL thread here.

In the crime that TB has been linked to (Sept 2018 home invasion and attack), he was driving a 2017 plum-colored Kia. He was also driving that in the Oct 2018 road-rage incident, after which the Kia went to the body shop. In the Nov 2018 Catholic supply store crime, he had a different car (anyone know what car?).

Thanks to @SandyQLS for looking up the cars listed on his bankruptcy docs (at Thomas Bruce: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com) and found:

As of the January 2017 BK filing pages 11/55 and 28/55 they had two cars:

2012 VW Passat (loan)
2016 Chevy Impala (lease)

He was not driving a 2017 Kia at the time of Delphi, but acquired it sometime after that.

Does anyone recall or have handy the car description from Delphi?

Where I'm going with this is...could he have gotten rid of one of those cars because it was described in the press after Delphi? Is it possible to check a title transfer - is that public knowledge? Or maybe he traded the leased Impala for a leased Kia? I guess that would make sense if he likes to drive newer cars?

I know changing cars is not definitive evidence...but I'm suspicious of this guy and wonder when he got the Kia and why.

jmo

 

[StarryStarryNight]

There's more info in this story ! Accused Catholic Supply store killer tied to September home invasion

This is very interesting. We've had discussions here about one reason the Delphi killer could not be TB is because of differences in the crimes. Adult women vs young girls; inside a store vs outside on trail; etc saying these type of killers usually kill in the same recognizable way. But this info means TB is capable of anything...this was an elderly woman he accosted at her front door. The implication in the article is he used some kind of ruse to get her to open the door and then to get her to open it a little further. Nothing like what he did in STL or perhaps did in Delphi and the victims run the gamut in age. Any resistance to thinking TB could not be BG because of these differences in my opinion has been vaporized. Unfortunately it also might make it hard for police to connect him to past crimes since he could have done pretty much anything in any way.

 

[MistyWaters]

I'm bringing part of the convo from the STL thread here.

In the crime that TB has been linked to (Sept 2018 home invasion and attack), he was driving a 2017 plum-colored Kia. He was also driving that in the Oct 2018 road-rage incident, after which the Kia went to the body shop. In the Nov 2018 Catholic supply store crime, he had a different car (anyone know what car?).

Thanks to @SandyQLS for looking up the cars listed on his bankruptcy docs (at Thomas Bruce: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com) and found:

As of the January 2017 BK filing pages 11/55 and 28/55 they had two cars:

2012 VW Passat (loan)
2016 Chevy Impala (lease)

He was not driving a 2017 Kia at the time of Delphi, but acquired it sometime after that.

Does anyone recall or have handy the car description from Delphi?

Where I'm going with this is...could he have gotten rid of one of those cars because it was described in the press after Delphi? Is it possible to check a title transfer - is that public knowledge? Or maybe he traded the leased Impala for a leased Kia? I guess that would make sense if he likes to drive newer cars?

I know changing cars is not definitive evidence...but I'm suspicious of this guy and wonder when he got the Kia and why.

jmo

I don’t recall LE ever mentioning any details of vehicle of interest connected to the Delphi murders, nor can I locate a link. Many early theories involved BG walking to the trail system, even working at the hog plant nearby. But there’s also been significant speculation involving either a white or red car. Early on some people thought they could see a white parked car through the trees but that was disproven iirc. And a car was towed from the cemetery but it appears unconnected. Then when DN became a much discussed subject, the sighting of a red car came into play. Or at times BG was speculated to have been hitchhiking. I could be wrong but I don’t think any source regarding details of a vehicle, or for that matter, it’s absence originated from MSM and as sometimes happens, speculation has a way of morphing into unproven facts.

Does anyone remember anything about a possible vehicle?

 

[carbuff]

I think it's important to remember that while many, perhaps most, serial offenders have a victim profile or a preferred method or circumstance, there are still many who don't. That might make another killer of teenagers more likely in this case, but I don't think it eliminates TB and I agree, this attack on a very different vicim under very different circumstances makes it likely he doesn't have a pattern.

I suspect, though I couldn't prove, that TB's "method" is to go after people who offend his sense of proper behavior somehow. That might fit with the situation in Delphi, where we've speculated the girls might have said or done something to enrage the killer.

 

[Inthedetails]

I don’t recall LE ever mentioning any details of vehicle of interest connected to the Delphi murders, nor can I locate a link. Many early theories involved BG walking to the trail system, even working at the hog plant nearby. But there’s also been significant speculation involving either a white or red car. Early on some people thought they could see a white parked car through the trees but that was disproven iirc. And a car was towed from the cemetery but it appears unconnected. Then when DN became a much discussed subject, the sighting of a red car came into play. Or at times BG was speculated to have been hitchhiking. I could be wrong but I don’t think any source regarding details of a vehicle, or for that matter, it’s absence originated from MSM and as sometimes happens, speculation has a way of morphing into unproven facts.

Does anyone remember anything about a possible vehicle?

Thank you . That is the info I was looking for. His vehicle may not be of use to us in the Delphi case.

Jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

I think it's important to remember that while many, perhaps most, serial offenders have a victim profile or a preferred method or circumstance, there are still many who don't. That might make another killer of teenagers more likely in this case, but I don't think it eliminates TB and I agree, this attack on a very different vicim under very different circumstances makes it likely he doesn't have a pattern.

I suspect, though I couldn't prove, that TB's "method" is to go after people who offend his sense of proper behavior somehow. That might fit with the situation in Delphi, where we've speculated the girls might have said or done something to enrage the killer.

I don't think he even needs a reason from his victims to enrage them. If any of these cases are an indication - teens on a hike, shoppers in a church store, woman inside her home, driver in his car - they didn't have any interaction before the attack as far as I know that would provoke him. (Maybe the driver angered him, idk.)

I think the provocation is in his mind, an urge to hurt, imo.

Speculation only, jmo at the moment

 

[kkdj]

I think it's important to remember that while many, perhaps most, serial offenders have a victim profile or a preferred method or circumstance, there are still many who don't. That might make another killer of teenagers more likely in this case, but I don't think it eliminates TB and I agree, this attack on a very different vicim under very different circumstances makes it likely he doesn't have a pattern.

I suspect, though I couldn't prove, that TB's "method" is to go after people who offend his sense of proper behavior somehow. That might fit with the situation in Delphi, where we've speculated the girls might have said or done something to enrage the killer.

His assaulting the 70+ year old woman could be his mothers age. The women in the store could be his wife's ages and the girls could be his children's/granchildren's ages.
Could be just as simple as crimes of opportunity and he doesn't care what the ages are....long as he has the power and control to force them to do what he wants.
I'm not sold yet that he had anything to do with the Delphi murders tho.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I don’t recall LE ever mentioning any details of vehicle of interest connected to the Delphi murders, nor can I locate a link. Many early theories involved BG walking to the trail system, even working at the hog plant nearby. But there’s also been significant speculation involving either a white or red car. Early on some people thought they could see a white parked car through the trees but that was disproven iirc. And a car was towed from the cemetery but it appears unconnected. Then when DN became a much discussed subject, the sighting of a red car came into play. Or at times BG was speculated to have been hitchhiking. I could be wrong but I don’t think any source regarding details of a vehicle, or for that matter, it’s absence originated from MSM and as sometimes happens, speculation has a way of morphing into unproven facts.

Does anyone remember anything about a possible vehicle?

Does anybody know how to get back to the really early threads on this case? I can only seem to get back to #74 or so. I'd like to look back through some of that again.

 

[Jax49]

Does anybody know how to get back to the really early threads on this case? I can only seem to get back to #74 or so. I'd like to look back through some of that again.

Link to first post, first thread. HTH's.

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 13, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #1

 

[Jerrod]

I don’t recall LE ever mentioning any details of vehicle of interest connected to the Delphi murders, nor can I locate a link. Many early theories involved BG walking to the trail system, even working at the hog plant nearby. But there’s also been significant speculation involving either a white or red car. Early on some people thought they could see a white parked car through the trees but that was disproven iirc. And a car was towed from the cemetery but it appears unconnected. Then when DN became a much discussed subject, the sighting of a red car came into play. Or at times BG was speculated to have been hitchhiking. I could be wrong but I don’t think any source regarding details of a vehicle, or for that matter, it’s absence originated from MSM and as sometimes happens, speculation has a way of morphing into unproven facts.

That’s exactly right. We went through this when a few people were trying to link DN and his dark red Geo Prizm to Delphi. Kelsi said she didn’t notice a car when she dropped the girls off. Neither did Derrick when he went looking for the girls later that afternoon. There was no report of a car’s description by any witness. This is why LE asked if anyone saw someone on foot with wet clothes, with a duffel bag, backpack, etc., and why there was family speculation that BG was on a bicycle or motorcycle, since he was overdressed on an unseasonably warm February day.

 

[Inthedetails]

That’s exactly right. We went through this when a few people were trying to link DN and his dark red Geo Prizm to Delphi. Kelsi said she didn’t notice a car when she dropped the girls off. Neither did Derrick when he went looking for the girls later that afternoon. There was no report of a car’s description from the witness(s). This is why LE asked if anyone saw someone on foot with wet clothes, with a duffel bag, backpack, etc., and why there was family speculation that BG was on a bicycle or motorcycle, since he was overdressed on an unseasonably warm February day.

So...TB's car doesn't link him to Delphi, from what we know.
Jmo

 

[carbuff]

I don't think he even needs a reason from his victims to enrage them. If any of these cases are an indication - teens on a hike, shoppers in a church store, woman inside her home, driver in his car - they didn't have any interaction before the attack as far as I know that would provoke him. (Maybe the driver angered him, idk.)

I think the provocation is in his mind, an urge to hurt, imo.

Speculation only, jmo at the moment

Yeah, the driver is described as a road rage incident and that's the kind of apparently trivial interaction I meant--maybe the women in the store were talking too loudly for what he thought was appropriate, maybe he hit on them and they laughed at him, that sort of small thing. And yes, totally in his mind. Probably not something that somebody looking outside his sick mind would even notice.

 

[Deleted member 196796]

I think it's important to remember that while many, perhaps most, serial offenders have a victim profile or a preferred method or circumstance, there are still many who don't. That might make another killer of teenagers more likely in this case, but I don't think it eliminates TB and I agree, this attack on a very different vicim under very different circumstances makes it likely he doesn't have a pattern.

I suspect, though I couldn't prove, that TB's "method" is to go after people who offend his sense of proper behavior somehow. That might fit with the situation in Delphi, where we've speculated the girls might have said or done something to enrage the killer.

Definitely agree with this comment. Maybe LE does have something on the audio recording, we have not heard all of it. How the witness in the Hot Shots bar described his behavior he can't help himself but to be arrogant, rude and make inappropriate comments. TB comes across a couple of young girls with no adult supervision in the middle of no where there is no telling what he said to them IF he were BG. Maybe Libby wasn't recording or maybe she was and the girls just kept walking as not to engage in conversation. IMO the girls did say something in reply that lit the fuse to BG's time bomb on the other side of the bridge that only LG, AW, BG and LE know about but not the families.

 

[LucyRocket]

I don’t recall LE ever mentioning any details of vehicle of interest connected to the Delphi murders, nor can I locate a link. Many early theories involved BG walking to the trail system, even working at the hog plant nearby. But there’s also been significant speculation involving either a white or red car. Early on some people thought they could see a white parked car through the trees but that was disproven iirc. And a car was towed from the cemetery but it appears unconnected. Then when DN became a much discussed subject, the sighting of a red car came into play. Or at times BG was speculated to have been hitchhiking. I could be wrong but I don’t think any source regarding details of a vehicle, or for that matter, it’s absence originated from MSM and as sometimes happens, speculation has a way of morphing into unproven facts.

Does anyone remember anything about a possible vehicle?

No

 

[ab01]

I still would be surprised if TB is BG, unfortunately there are probably hundreds of TB’s in Indiana alone,a lot of sick people out there. Call me pessimistic or close minded I don’t care, but from day one I haven’t been able to shake the feeling that BG new the trails and area very well! I find myself many times going back and watching video of “her name escapes me, websleuth poster nana1?” walking that bridge and how terrifying it would be unless you were very familiar with it. BG had been to Monon High Bridge many times imo. The key is who is very familiar with that place! It always has been and will continue to be until he is behind bars. Moo bash away, I can take it

 

[Deleted member 196796]

Now with this latest crime tied to TB and the Catholic Supply Store, it really does appear he has a short fuse and is a loose canon. He shows no concerns of being caught by leaving eye witnesses. I've always visioned BG to be organized, methodical and takes pride in covering his tracks. I'm really leaning away of TB and BG being one in the same based on tactics, self-discipline and victim selection. TB has shown victim choice of being middle aged to senior women. Like many others I am still waiting to hear TB's voice.

 

[Blueberry2720]

I still would be surprised if TB is BG, unfortunately there are probably hundreds of TB’s in Indiana alone,a lot of sick people out there. Call me pessimistic or close minded I don’t care, but from day one I haven’t been able to shake the feeling that BG new the trails and area very well! I find myself many times going back and watching video of “her name escapes me, websleuth poster nana1?” walking that bridge and how terrifying it would be unless you were very familiar with it. BG had been to Monon High Bridge many times imo. The key is who is very familiar with that place! It always has been and will continue to be until he is behind bars. Moo bash away, I can take it

TB has numerous connections and family not terribly far from Delphi. He apparently also likes parks, perhaps as a place to people watch??

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Now with this latest crime tied to TB and the Catholic Supply Store, it really does appear he has a short fuse and is a loose canon. He shows no concerns of being caught by leaving eye witnesses. I've always visioned BG to be organized, methodical and takes pride in covering his tracks. I'm really leaning away of TB and BG being one in the same based on tactics, self-discipline and victim selection. TB has shown victim choice of being middle aged to senior women. Like many others I am still waiting to hear TB's voice.

BG (as the sketch) had been seen by (more than one at least) witnesses, who didn't know, a murderer would be searched for later on that or the next February day. He is also brazen just like TB, it seems.