Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #86

[Deleted member 102539]

So...TB's car doesn't link him to Delphi, from what we know.
Jmo

TB's car could have been parked at the next bar/pub/fast food restaurant/even church or in one of the many sheds around there. I'm quite unsuccessful with sleuthing, but the refined sleuthers perhaps might find out, whether TB was known to one of the many people, WSsers had on their "list" in/around Delphi. I hope so.
ETA: Deleted part of the next to last sentence. TOS

 

[ab01]

TB has numerous connections and family not terribly far from Delphi. He apparently also likes parks, perhaps as a place to people watch??

I don’t believe this statement is entirely accurate, from my understanding of confirmed facts their is a very loose connection to 40 min from Delphi. Unfortunately people read things on Facebook and google search the wrong brother of a second cousin once removed and post it as fact.....

 

[JnRyan]

Cases like this - and others such as the Missy Bevers case in TX - would seem to have a wealth of evidence. And yet this murderer is incredibly lucky. He had no way of knowing in advance that Abigail and Liberty were going to be there. I believe this was an impulse crime and the fact that it didn't go sideways on him very quickly would just seem to be more about luck than planning.

But I'm betting he didn't expect his photo to be out there with an audio or the sketch or DNA. He's got to know his luck is only going to last just so long. I hope he is jumping every time there is a knock at the door.

 

[Falling Down]

That’s exactly right. We went through this when a few people were trying to link DN and his dark red Geo Prizm to Delphi. Kelsi said she didn’t notice a car when she dropped the girls off. Neither did Derrick when he went looking for the girls later that afternoon. There was no report of a car’s description by any witness. This is why LE asked if anyone saw someone on foot with wet clothes, with a duffel bag, backpack, etc., and why there was family speculation that BG was on a bicycle or motorcycle, since he was overdressed on an unseasonably warm February day.

Great post.

The parking area, which is now closed off (it's on private property), could hold maybe just a few cars. There is a parking area on the other side of the Freedom Bridge which crosses IN 25, basically where the other trail starts, the one which leads to the trails by the High Bridge.

An eyewitness mentioned a white pick up parked along C.R. 300 in the hours prior to the murders, as early as 11:30 AM. It was parked adjacent to an abandoned county property near to, and kind of across the road from, the Anderson's grain terminal on C.R. 300.

I've thought all along the perp parked at the cemetery, it's close to the CS, the back section of the cemetery would be a good hiding spot for a vehicle, as C.R. 300 is not a heavily-traveled road. There are trails on the private properties along the north side of the creek, at least one I know of leads to the cemetery. From the back of the cemetery to the CS is s short walk, judging by maps I've seen.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

JMO
After studying where the BG took the girls there is no doubt in my mind he had more than a passing fancy with that place. He knew the place well and better than most because the location where their bodies were found was in a spot that could not be seen well by others. It was far enough away from the bridge where people on the bridge would not see them and it was down the fairly steep embankment from the landowner above who got arrested where that landowner could also not see down to that area near the bank of the river.

I also suspect the BG knew the water became shallow around that area where it was easy to cross the river on foot with the water level they had at the time.

All of that tells me he had been to that location before and probably more than once.
JMO of course.

I agree. He had to know the bridge is there, maybe he's known for a long time.

My take on the actual crimes involved in this case is he had timed everything, knew how long the walk is from the trailhead to the bridge, how long it takes to walk across that old bridge, how long the walk down the hill and to the creek takes, etc. He probably did "dry runs", not that day, but previously, say months beforehand.

I think the nature of the crimes indicates he's an organized killer, and may have planned the attacks that day months or even years beforehand. Some killers do just that, their crimes are planned well in advance, and they may plan multiple murder scenarios simultaneously.

JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

Great post.

The parking area, which is now closed off (it's on private property), could hold maybe just a few cars. There is a parking area on the other side of the Freedom Bridge which crosses IN 25, basically where the other trail starts, the one which leads to the trails by the High Bridge.

An eyewitness mentioned a white pick up parked along C.R. 300 in the hours prior to the murders, as early as 11:30 AM. It was parked adjacent to an abandoned county property near to, and kind of across the road from, the Anderson's grain terminal on C.R. 300.

I've thought all along the perp parked at the cemetery, it's close to the CS, the back section of the cemetery would be a good hiding spot for a vehicle, as C.R. 300 is not a heavily-traveled road. There are trails on the private properties along the north side of the creek, at least one I know of leads to the cemetery. From the back of the cemetery to the CS is s short walk, judging by maps I've seen.

JMO

If BG is TB, I don't think he would have worried about hiding his car. If it is TB, I think he was there for a walk, yet ready to strike when he saw the girls and saw that he could isolate them. If it is TB, my hunch is he had been there before and knew the area enough to know how to corner them and where to direct them. After the crime, I think he just got in his car and drove away. That seems to be his M.O., if it's TB.

If it's TB, I don't think he drove to that location specifically intending to attack that day - he might have just enjoyed the walk and driven home, if he had not encountered the girls. So, no reason to hide his car, if it's him, because he was just an unemployed guy taking a hike in an interesting place on a nice day.

Lots of "ifs," I know.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

Does anyone with a sharp memory remember the time of the photo Libby posted online of the girls on the bridge?

 

[Jax49]

Does anyone with a sharp memory remember the time of the photo Libby posted online of the girls on the bridge?

I have 2:07:

Libby posted photos of the old railway bridge at 2.07pm on February 13 to her Snapchat account, one of them featuring Abby.

 

[Inthedetails]

I have 2:07:

Libby posted photos of the old railway bridge at 2.07pm on February 13 to her Snapchat account, one of them featuring Abby.

Thanks! How's your memory about the time the ride arrived to pick up the girls?

tia

 

[Jax49]

Thanks! How's your memory about the time the ride arrived to pick up the girls?

tia

Lousy. Only time I remember is 5:30 (LE notified) and that was after the family searched for some time. Somewhere in these many threads there is a timeline covering those few hours. Maybe someone else can link? TIA

 

[Yvettea]

DG arrived at the trail parking at 3:14. He was supposed to pick up the girls.

He called them right before but the phone went straight to voice mail.

About 9:50 on the video.

 

[Jax49]

DG arrived at the trail parking at 3:14. He was supposed to pick up the girls.

He called them right before but the phone went straight to voice mail.

About 9:50 on the video.

Thank you.

 

[Inthedetails]

DG arrived at the trail parking at 3:14. He was supposed to pick up the girls.

He called them right before but the phone went straight to voice mail.

About 9:50 on the video.

Thanks....so a little over an hour between the photo of the girls and their ride arriving.

We know TB works quickly - in STL he was chatting in the bar and 30 minutes later the crime was committed, a woman was dead, the perp departed, and help was called. But...many perps work quickly so the speed isn't necessarily a calling card.

jmo

 

[Indy Anna]

If BG is TB, I don't think he would have worried about hiding his car. If it is TB, I think he was there for a walk, yet ready to strike when he saw the girls and saw that he could isolate them. If it is TB, my hunch is he had been there before and knew the area enough to know how to corner them and where to direct them. After the crime, I think he just got in his car and drove away. That seems to be his M.O., if it's TB.

If it's TB, I don't think he drove to that location specifically intending to attack that day - he might have just enjoyed the walk and driven home, if he had not encountered the girls. So, no reason to hide his car, if it's him, because he was just an unemployed guy taking a hike in an interesting place on a nice day.

Lots of "ifs," I know.

jmo

I agree that BG didn't necessarily plan to attack that day. I think he was constantly on the prowl for victims and saw an opportunity that day. I also think he was prepared for an attack should the opportunity arise (it did when he saw the girls alone on the bridge).

A poster upthread speculated that BG may have gone to his car to retrieve "supplies" once he spotted potential victims. I think this is a very real possibility. I also wonder if he may have moved his vehicle at that time to a more obscure location, and to facilitate a quick get-away. This is, supposing BG used a vehicle that day.

If BG did arrive in a vehicle that day and moved it when he saw potential victims, any visitors who noticed something peculiar about BG and saw his vehicle in the parking area may have thought BG had left prior to their seeing the girls and so dismissed the man as a POI.

MOO

 

[Cryptic]

JMO
After studying where the BG took the girls there is no doubt in my mind he had more than a passing fancy with that place. He knew the place well and better than most because the location where their bodies were found was in a spot that could not be seen well by others.

I also suspect the BG knew the water became shallow around that area where it was easy to cross the river on foot with the water level they had at the time. All of that tells me he had been to that location before and probably more than once.

Well said.

I like your points abut the creek. Creeks can be tricky to cross as they can go from knee deep to chest deep fast. Also currents can be deceptively powerful. Then factor in that most people are not that comfortable in water. As a result, when under stress, most would instinctually shy away from crossing a body of water.

The fact that he crossed the creek either points to a familiarity with creeks (hunter?, hiker?), or that he knew that creek in particular, or both.

Then factor in that with a few noted exceptions, almost all murderers commit their crimes in places where they are comfortable. The comfortable aspect comes from being familiar with the place.

I think question of how he became familiar with the area can be broken down into three general groups:

- Current residents: The police investigation has been exhaustive and in all probability, included all known local criminals, sex offenders, mentally unstable, as well as individuals who though not convicted of anything, are known locally as "bad news" or just "creepy". All of these possibilities have come up dry.

-Former residents: I think this possibility is most promising. The former resident could have been visiting, been a long term house guest, returned to the area for work, or returned to engage in criminal activity (desires of being a small town crime boss).

I have always liked oral history. It might be good to ask the local historians (retired police, teachers, sports coaches etc.) regarding former residents - both known criminals as well as non criminal, but bad news / creepy types.

- Transient who camped in the area before: The area does not seem to have a lot of transient activity. In addition, BG does not look like a transient. His clothes are neat, the jeans might even be pressed. Likewise, some articles of clothing almost seem color coordinated.

 

[carbuff]

Is it a fact he crossed the creek? Or is that only our speculation?

 

[Inthedetails]

Is it a fact he crossed the creek? Or is that only our speculation?

Good question. I can't remember! I recall discussions about the creek, but can't remember if it was confirmed they did indeed cross the creek.

jmo

 

[Jabarn]

Is it a fact he crossed the creek? Or is that only our speculation?

I think it is likely the creek was crossed, and BG was a big part of it.

I always thought BG was a transient who had been living in the area for a while, perhaps hiding in one of RL’s outbuildings, but I am not thinking that as much lately.

If crossing the creek was how the girls wound up in the final resting spot, they would both be soaking wet, as would the BG. Haven’t heard anything about that, though.

If he forced them back to the start of the bridge, up a hill, and around to the discovery location, that could be it.

It depends a lot on whether their clothes were wet, if they had any on, to be fair.

I can’t shake the instagram picture of Abby, there is no one in the background, and the next images, stills from the video Libby took, have him right there. He moved fast, even though the bridge would make it hard to do so, with the spaces between the wood tracks. I still think it isn’t impossible he came up from under the bridge in the same place he forced them down. IMO.

 

[wdmcmahan]

If BG did arrive in a vehicle that day and moved it when he saw potential victims, any visitors who noticed something peculiar about BG and saw his vehicle in the parking area may have thought BG had left prior to their seeing the girls and so dismissed the man as a POI.

MOO

This makes a LOT of sense to me. I hope this is something LE has thought of and spoken about to potential witnesses.

 

[Inthedetails]

I think it is likely the creek was crossed, and BG was a big part of it.

I always thought BG was a transient who had been living in the area for a while, perhaps hiding in one of RL’s outbuildings, but I am not thinking that as much lately.

If crossing the creek was how the girls wound up in the final resting spot, they would both be soaking wet, as would the BG. Haven’t heard anything about that, though.

If he forced them back to the start of the bridge, up a hill, and around to the discovery location, that could be it.

It depends a lot on whether their clothes were wet, if they had any on, to be fair.

I can’t shake the instagram picture of Abby, there is no one in the background, and the next images, stills from the video Libby took, have him right there. He moved fast, even though the bridge would make it hard to do so, with the spaces between the wood tracks. I still think it isn’t impossible he came up from under the bridge in the same place he forced them down. IMO.

Yes, now I am recalling some of this info. Given the choice between forcing them over the bride and forcing them into the water, my guess would be the bridge. The perp is sneaky, imo, and going into the water doesn't seem sneaky.

My hunch. jmo