Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #87

[mtnlites]

the bridge is not safe. it becomes apparent when you are on it. someone said a train ran on it...I don't think a train ever went on the bridge, I walked on it at least 40 years ago, it was not cool.

Trains did very much run on the bridge up until a couple of decades ago. I've seen them go over it in my lifetime. As kids we used to dare each other to walk across it. The last time I did was around 3 years ago. I'm not saying that it's safe, but it compares to many other bridges of that type-wobbly and high, but not that different.

 

[mtnlites]

Your comments about how comfortable he seems on the bridge makes me think railroad worker OR construction worker who works up high, roofer, crane man, etc. OR telephone pole man, someone used to working on high.

I understand what you're thinking, but I've seen lots of grown men and women walk across that very bridge without any trouble and they didn't work any of those professions. Of course, BG could still be one of those workers, but I wouldn't peg him as one just because he walked easily across the bridge. He could just as easily simply not have problems with height or he could be someone from there, or someone who visited a lot, and have experience on the bridge.

 

[watcher9]

Built in 1891, that’s how old it is.


A 360 tour of the Monon High Bridge
“......The Monon High Bridge was built in 1891.

At 63-feet, the bridge is believed to be Indiana’s second tallest bridge.

It carried trains high above Deer Creek until it was abandoned by CSX in 1987.

The abandoned railroad bridge has since become a popular attraction for people who live in the area, despite its disrepair and exclusion from the official Delphi Historic Trail System.

Indiana Landmarks put the bridge on its 10 Most Endangered List in 2016....”

BBM
Thanks for posting this.
I remembered it from back when, but couldn't find it again.

Even though many people did walk across the bridge, it is important to remember that it was not included as a part of the Delphi Trail System. It was only an attraction to look at. BG would not have expected to see anyone on the bridge so he must have been checking out hikers walking along the trail.

 

[mtnlites]

BBM
Thanks for posting this.
I remembered it from back when, but couldn't find it again.

Even though many people did walk across the bridge, it is important to remember that it was not included as a part of the Delphi Trail System. It was only an attraction to look at. BG would not have expected to see anyone on the bridge so he must have been checking out hikers walking along the trail.

Not officially part of the trail system, but often included as part of the visit to the park by people who went there. I don't think BG was scoping out the bridge and looking for people, though, because I think he saw them on the trail first and then followed them.

 

[carbuff]

Trains did very much run on the bridge up until a couple of decades ago. I've seen them go over it in my lifetime. As kids we used to dare each other to walk across it. The last time I did was around 3 years ago. I'm not saying that it's safe, but it compares to many other bridges of that type-wobbly and high, but not that different.

I think a lot of people who grew up around railroads would be comfortable on that bridge. We used to walk the tracks to get to the river for fishing, and sometimes to visit friends; the track was the most direct path. You get used to the way it feels and the way the ties are spaced. I'm not good with heights so I'm not sure whether I'd be able to cross this particular bridge, but I'd feel the same way if it was steel or concrete.

 

[minazoe]

I must have been on a different bridge because there were no trains running. So now I question if I may have walked on some other other similar bridge in the area, or Southern Illinois, I will have to research, you definitely don't want get stuck on a high bridge with a train coming! It was for sure more than 30 years ago, as I was just a kid myself. mOO

 

[JnRyan]

Not officially part of the trail system, but often included as part of the visit to the park by people who went there. I don't think BG was scoping out the bridge and looking for people, though, because I think he saw them on the trail first and then followed them.

I believe so, too. In fact, given how far behind them he was - as he was not in the earlier photo of Abigail - I tend to think he went back to his vehicle to get a gun or other weapon and then went after them.

 

[Jabarn]

I believe so, too. In fact, given how far behind them he was - as he was not in the earlier photo of Abigail - I tend to think he went back to his vehicle to get a gun or other weapon and then went after them.

That is one piece of evidence that is very useful in figuring out the timeline- the picture of Abby with the expanse of bridge behind her and not a single soul seen behind her. I don’t think it has been mentioned in MSM the time elapsed from the Snapchat pic, and the stills of BG taken from the video found on Libby’s phone.

 

[layer]

I suspect he came from the south side of the bridge, walked past them, then turned back. This would mean he had already checked/cleared the area where he would lead them to. While walking past them he would have been able to verify that no one else was coming from the north side. I think this turning back is what set off the alarm for Libby to start recording.

Just a feeling I have...

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

That is one piece of evidence that is very useful in figuring out the timeline- the picture of Abby with the expanse of bridge behind her and not a single soul seen behind her. I don’t think it has been mentioned in MSM the time elapsed from the Snapchat pic, and the stills of BG taken from the video found on Libby’s phone.

Hi Jabarn,

Not mentioned in MSM, but IIRC, some of the billboards referred to the man on the bridge as having been last seen around 2:30 pm. on 2/13/17. There was some speculation about that being the time of the video but as far as I can tell, it has never been verified by MSM or LE.

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong.

JMO
RIP M +J

 

[Jabarn]

I suspect he came from the south side of the bridge, walked past them, then turned back. This would mean he had already checked/cleared the area where he would lead them to. While walking past them he would have been able to verify that no one else was coming from the north side. I think this turning back is what set off the alarm for Libby to start recording.

Just a feeling I have...

I have had that theory for a while now. He was under the bridge and came up on the south end. It doesn’t mean he didn’t have a vantage point to see the girls dropped off. You would think there would be all kinds of evidence under the bridge if he was a lurker there (maybe a transient), but if so, nothing has come from it. Maybe he has no priors identifiable in DNA data bases, including the familial data bases (although that seems unlikely). IMO.

Press conference next week, so maybe more information will be shared.

 

[Jabarn]

Hi Jabarn,

Not mentioned in MSM, but IIRC, some of the billboards referred to the man on the bridge as having been last seen around 2:30 pm. on 2/13/17. There was some speculation about that being the time of the video but as far as I can tell, it has never been verified by MSM or LE.

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong.

JMO
RIP M +J

I wonder about that. When I google she Snapchat image of Abbie, it stays 7 hours ago, so no distinct time on when the pic was actually taken.

It does matter when the pic was taken in configuring BG’s spot on the bridge and where the girls were first seen and targeted.

Timeline: TIMELINE | Disappearance and deaths of Liberty German and Abigail Williams in Delphi

 

[Steleheart]

Hi Jabarn,

Not mentioned in MSM, but IIRC, some of the billboards referred to the man on the bridge as having been last seen around 2:30 pm. on 2/13/17. There was some speculation about that being the time of the video but as far as I can tell, it has never been verified by MSM or LE.

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong.

JMO
RIP M +J

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

Thanks, Steleheart!

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

I wonder about that. When I google she Snapchat image of Abbie, it stays 7 hours ago, so no distinct time on when the pic was actually taken.

It does matter when the pic was taken in configuring BG’s spot on the bridge and where the girls were first seen and targeted.

Timeline: TIMELINE | Disappearance and deaths of Liberty German and Abigail Williams in Delphi

I remember reading the time stamp on the photo of Abby was around 2:10 pm. I have no link right now, so JMO, but that would leave BG around 20 minutes to cross the bridge.

Also no link, but allegedly “witness(es)” saw BG on the trails and then “witness(es)” saw the girls. This was discussed in these threads previously, but when some of us went back for the link, the article had been edited to remove this information. (This is part of what makes me think LE and MSM are staying tight lipped about who may have seen BG and where and when.) It also makes me think BG approached the MHB from the trail side the same way Liberty and Abby did.

JMO
RIP M+J

 

[Jabarn]

From the Snapschat pic of Abby (maybe around 2:07pm, 02/13/17, and the capture from the billboards when BG shows up *possibly* around 2:30pm, also 02/13/17). Twenty-three minutes.

No one was worried until a family member came back to pick the girls up and they weren’t where they were supposed to be.

5:30pm on that day was when the call came in the were missing. I think the girls were supposed to be picked up earlier than that. Anyone have a link? TIA

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

ETA: a more precise time of the Snapchat pic of Abby.

 

[Jax49]

IIRC, the time we discussed relating to the pic of Abby was 2:07 pm.

 

[kc1023]

Saw this and thought of A&L. This is possibly how BG is eventually caught. I believe due to a new DNA felony collection law that recently went into effect.

This case is from Bloomington, IN:

13 years after Bloomington rape, police make arrest thanks to DNA evidence

snipped/BBM:

BLOOMINGTON, Ind. – Nearly 13 years after a Bloomington woman was raped in her own apartment, police say they’ve made an arrest, thanks to DNA evidence.

Police began investigating the case on the night of March 28, 2006, when officers responded to an apartment in the 300 block of East 2nd Street. That's where the victim reported she had been sexually assaulted.

On February 5 of this year, Bloomington police say they were notified by the Indiana State Police Laboratory that DNA evidence collected during this investigation had been matched to an offender in the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) database. A DNA sample had recently been collected from the suspect due to his arrest for a felony charge in Lawrence County in late 2018.

Once the suspect’s DNA profile was compared to unknown DNA profiles in the database, the system matched the suspect’s DNA with samples collected during the initial investigation in 2006.

 

[Jabarn]

IIRC, the time we discussed relating to the pic of Abby was 2:07 pm.

Got it, and thanks. I’ll edit it to be more precise. It matters.

 

[Jabarn]

Saw this and thought of A&L. This is possibly how BG is eventually caught. I believe due to a new DNA felony collection law that recently went into effect.

This case is from Bloomington, IN:

13 years after Bloomington rape, police make arrest thanks to DNA evidence

snipped/BBM:

BLOOMINGTON, Ind. – Nearly 13 years after a Bloomington woman was raped in her own apartment, police say they’ve made an arrest, thanks to DNA evidence.

Police began investigating the case on the night of March 28, 2006, when officers responded to an apartment in the 300 block of East 2nd Street. That's where the victim reported she had been sexually assaulted.

On February 5 of this year, Bloomington police say they were notified by the Indiana State Police Laboratory that DNA evidence collected during this investigation had been matched to an offender in the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) database. A DNA sample had recently been collected from the suspect due to his arrest for a felony charge in Lawrence County in late 2018.

Once the suspect’s DNA profile was compared to unknown DNA profiles in the database, the system matched the suspect’s DNA with samples collected during the initial investigation in 2006.

You know, so many high profile cold cases being solved by familial DNA, much to the perp’s chagrine, I was hopeful this could be some definite technology used to solve this case. I know it doesn’t happen overnight, but it has been a while now, and nothing.