Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #104

[MizStery]

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Do you know where the answer about the couple occurred? Got through about 20 minutes and had to turn it off.

Hello to Cutiekitty and all:
The Podcast Abby and Libby Delphi case Round Table - with Mike and Becky Patty Part Two is no longer available by Grey Hughes.I am sorry Cutiekitty you spent 20 minutes looking for the BP timeline from my post 396 that the link no longer exists.

I am puzzled by it’s disappearance. Now the only reference to the ‘Mike and Becky Patty Part 2’ YouTube Video is from a caller “Jackie from Houston at 28:35.” Grey Hughes confirms to Jackie it was a Podcast with Becky and Mike answering questions over Skype unfortunately he does not offer up any clues as to why he purged it. Finally to summarize Mike and Becky Patty Part Two Podcast is unavailable instead Grey substituted a 60 minute + video titled Abby and Libby Delphi Round Table Discussion.

Broken, unavailable or modified links seem to happen in every single case I have followed. It is very frustrating when we document MSM sources only to have them later made unavailable.

MOO

 

[MDATCA]

Probably a dumbish question to ask at this point (since the CPS building is now gone), but... Does any WS-er know: Did LE find useful evidence** there before the building was demolished/burnt down, whether inside or in the general parking area? (I believe that someone here said that they had seen the building "boarded up", so I am guessing that it had been closed up tightly to keep people/critters out.)

**Other than a possible sighting of a vehicle parked there sometime between 12 noon and 5 p.m. on February 13, 2017.

Didnt they use that as part of the LE staging area? At the very least that area was not considered at first and searchers parked there. It was contaminated before they even knew it was an area of interest.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

If a searcher got close enough to touch a body they contaminated the scene. IMO

I believe the two girls were located by a Sheriff’s Deputy - who ironically enough - was one of the first to respond to the Flora fires. This makes me believe the scene may not be as contaminated as we believe.

 

[tresir2012]

Hello to Cutiekitty and all:
The Podcast Abby and Libby Delphi case Round Table - with Mike and Becky Patty Part Two is no longer available by Grey Hughes.I am sorry Cutiekitty you spent 20 minutes looking for the BP timeline from my post 396 that the link no longer exists.

I am puzzled by it’s disappearance. Now the only reference to the ‘Mike and Becky Patty Part 2’ YouTube Video is from a caller “Jackie from Houston at 28:35.” Grey Hughes confirms to Jackie it was a Podcast with Becky and Mike answering questions over Skype unfortunately he does not offer up any clues as to why he purged it. Finally to summarize Mike and Becky Patty Part Two Podcast is unavailable instead Grey substituted a 60 minute + video titled Abby and Libby Delphi Round Table Discussion.

Broken, unavailable or modified links seem to happen in every single case I have followed. It is very frustrating when we document MSM sources only to have them later made unavailable.

MOO

Is this the same one that JudgeJudi transcribed yesterday or a different one?

 

[tresir2012]

I believe the two girls were located by a Sheriff’s Deputy - who ironically enough - was one of the first to respond to the Flora fires. This makes me believe the scene may not be as contaminated as we believe.

Do you have a link because I thought volunteer searchers found them by following footsteps?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

​

Hello to Cutiekitty and all:
The Podcast Abby and Libby Delphi case Round Table - with Mike and Becky Patty Part Two is no longer available by Grey Hughes.I am sorry Cutiekitty you spent 20 minutes looking for the BP timeline from my post 396 that the link no longer exists.

I am puzzled by it’s disappearance. Now the only reference to the ‘Mike and Becky Patty Part 2’ YouTube Video is from a caller “Jackie from Houston at 28:35.” Grey Hughes confirms to Jackie it was a Podcast with Becky and Mike answering questions over Skype unfortunately he does not offer up any clues as to why he purged it. Finally to summarize Mike and Becky Patty Part Two Podcast is unavailable instead Grey substituted a 60 minute + video titled Abby and Libby Delphi Round Table Discussion.

Broken, unavailable or modified links seem to happen in every single case I have followed. It is very frustrating when we document MSM sources only to have them later made unavailable.

MOO

Agree it is disheartening when later on in a case we want to go back and the links are broken. That is why I always try to do a summary if I ever see a link without any quotes from the story, and appreciate people who take the time when they do a link to do a paragraph or two to go with it for the most important information. And I won't even go into how sometimes mainstream media updates and deletes when they do, and the only way we know it was there because somebody had caught it on the first time around.

 

[MingyMoo]

Apropos "fire": I remember, a fire happened on the day of 13th in Delphi/near Delphi, but I don't know, where exactly and what building. Even saw a pic in some newspaper in 2017. Anyone, who hasn't forgotten the location?

13th March 2019 Washington Street. It started in a chicken coup and damaged 6 buildings and several cars

5 buildings destroyed in overnight fire

 

[Cryptic]

I heard mention of the purported white skull balaclava a few times now. Something like that would certainly seem to fall in to a certain age group?

Not sure. Maybe? I have one. I don't know that they appeal to certain age groups as they do to certain subcultures.

The age group that skull balaclava they appeal to would be 20-40 year old males, of whom most would be in the military interest sub culture and military "wanna'bes / wanna'be tough guy" sub culture.

Balavlavas are associated with SWAT and Special Forces officers because they are worn to prevent neck / face burns caused by "flash / bang" gernades. Ideally, the hostage takers get momentarily stunned by the dual sensory over load and are then more easily killed or subdued by the rescuers. They also conceal identity.

Some Special Forces soldiers have also adopted the 'Punisher skull' as an unofficial logo due to the lethal justice dealt out by the fictional character. Marketers then mixed balaclavas and skulls together. I have seen photos of French Foreign Legion soldiers fighting in Mali wearing skull balaclavas- of course, not as part of their official uniforms.

The official and unofficial association of balaclavas and 'Punisher' skulls with special forces then spread to the military interest sub culture. Paintballers and airsoft hobbysists sport them on occasion to complete a 'look' during their games. Other people display punisher balaclava logos either out of admiration for Special Forces or as "wanna'be tough guys". More ominously, some rampagers, including the Texas church shooter, have worn either real balaclava's or skull varieties.

 

[rosesfromangels]

The age group that skull balaclava they appeal to would be 20-40 year old males, of whom most would be in the military interest sub culture and in some cases, military wanna'bes".

I believe that SWAT and Special Forces officers wear balacavas to prevent neck / face burns caused by "flash / bang" gernades. Ideally, the hostage takers get momentarily stunned by the dual sensory over load and are then more easily killed or subdued by the rescuers.

Some Special Forces soldiers have also adopted the 'Punisher skull' as an unofficial logo due to the lethal justice dealt out by the fictional character. Marketers then mixed balaclavas and skulls together. I have seen photos of French Foreign Legion soldiers fighting in Mali wearing 'Punisher' balaclavas- of course, not as part of their official uniforms.

The official and unofficial association of balaclavas and 'Punisher' skulls with special forces then spread to the military interest sub culture. Paintballers and airsoft hobbysists sport them on occasion to complete a 'look' during their games.

Other people display punisher balaclava logos either out of admiration for Special Forces or as "wanna'bes". More ominously, some rampagers, including the Texas church shooter have worn either real balaclava's or skull varieties.

Cryptic, this is invaluable information, and fodder for another threads worth!
This profile you just gave us really lines up with the military-like precision in which this Perp carried out the attack. Clearly, he was meticulous, was well planned, and his killing mission accomplished.

A lot to think about here. Best post on this thread. Thank you.
Amateur opinion and speculation

ETA: This profile also reminds me of some online gamer that lost their grip on reality

 

[rosesfromangels]

13th March 2019 Washington Street. It started in a chicken coup and damaged 6 buildings and several cars

5 buildings destroyed in overnight fire

I'm a bit confused. Does this have anything to do with the CPS structure? Did we ever figure out if that came down intentionally or otherwise?
TIA. Trying hard to keep up with all the info on the thread!

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Backstroke10]

Hello to Cutiekitty and all:
The Podcast Abby and Libby Delphi case Round Table - with Mike and Becky Patty Part Two is no longer available by Grey Hughes.I am sorry Cutiekitty you spent 20 minutes looking for the BP timeline from my post 396 that the link no longer exists.

I am puzzled by it’s disappearance. Now the only reference to the ‘Mike and Becky Patty Part 2’ YouTube Video is from a caller “Jackie from Houston at 28:35.” Grey Hughes confirms to Jackie it was a Podcast with Becky and Mike answering questions over Skype unfortunately he does not offer up any clues as to why he purged it. Finally to summarize Mike and Becky Patty Part Two Podcast is unavailable instead Grey substituted a 60 minute + video titled Abby and Libby Delphi Round Table Discussion.

Broken, unavailable or modified links seem to happen in every single case I have followed. It is very frustrating when we document MSM sources only to have them later made unavailable.

MOO

Why would he take down the video? Did someone ask him to take it down? I find it puzzling. MOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

Why would he take down the video? Did someone ask him to take it down? I find it puzzling. MOO

Perhaps there is something in there that is either now known to be inaccurate, or is inaccurately inflammatory to an individual, or suggests something sensitive that LE is working on. Just a guess.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Backstroke10]

There are different case scenarios.

1) Let us say, my DNA is in Gedmatch, and I have a tree. Now, Gedmatch has the options to opt-in or out of one’s DNA being compared in police investigations.

If, say, in a discussion whether to opt-in or out, in a genealogy community, I say, I am against it because of this and this, it should not be viewed as suspicious. People have opinions.

2) I say nothing in such a discussion. But instead, I suddenly call my relative who lives nearby, is deeply into genealogy and has a tree. And ask her specifically not to check opt-in for her own DNA in Gedmatch.

This could look suspicious to her.

The same with Indiana - if someone living in/around Delphi area starts asking relatives to opt-out of Gedmatch, it would be unusual. If they opt-out for own DNA, it should be OK. MOO.

Question, if one or two family members opt out but numerous others opt-in, wouldn’t they still be able to narrow a suspects DNA down to someone in that family? LE wouldn’t be able to compare DNA to that opted-out member but they would know their close. Is this correct?

 

[Imvp2]

Motorcyclists, those who enjoy heavy metal or hard rock, goths, non goths who just enjoy some parts of the sub's clothing, race car drivers, members of the counterculture, those who are into certain aspects of military wear, etc.

In pop culture they're associated with crime (robberies, cartels, other criminals) and they definitely stand out. If you don't mind the attention and you don't care if people are looking at you and treating you like you're getting ready to hold up a bank then you're probably okay. It's not something you'd want to wear to blend in, though. People notice.

Here in Indiana, we also wear them for warmth. The younger generations go towards the skull look as opposed to a simple black Note it is pulled down to his neck A simple pull up and you're totally scaring someone

 

[Cutiekitty]

Hello to Cutiekitty and all:
The Podcast Abby and Libby Delphi case Round Table - with Mike and Becky Patty Part Two is no longer available by Grey Hughes.I am sorry Cutiekitty you spent 20 minutes looking for the BP timeline from my post 396 that the link no longer exists.

I am puzzled by it’s disappearance. Now the only reference to the ‘Mike and Becky Patty Part 2’ YouTube Video is from a caller “Jackie from Houston at 28:35.” Grey Hughes confirms to Jackie it was a Podcast with Becky and Mike answering questions over Skype unfortunately he does not offer up any clues as to why he purged it. Finally to summarize Mike and Becky Patty Part Two Podcast is unavailable instead Grey substituted a 60 minute + video titled Abby and Libby Delphi Round Table Discussion.

Broken, unavailable or modified links seem to happen in every single case I have followed. It is very frustrating when we document MSM sources only to have them later made unavailable.

MOO

Thanks for trying. I found what looks like a written Q&A with BP and TG on another site. They are asked about the “couple” and they state it was a man and a woman. I do not know the veracity of the Q&A or if it’s allowed to be linked so I’m not going to add it. Looks like it was something posted on FB.

 

[MistyWaters]

Hello to Cutiekitty and all:
The Podcast Abby and Libby Delphi case Round Table - with Mike and Becky Patty Part Two is no longer available by Grey Hughes.I am sorry Cutiekitty you spent 20 minutes looking for the BP timeline from my post 396 that the link no longer exists.

I am puzzled by it’s disappearance. Now the only reference to the ‘Mike and Becky Patty Part 2’ YouTube Video is from a caller “Jackie from Houston at 28:35.” Grey Hughes confirms to Jackie it was a Podcast with Becky and Mike answering questions over Skype unfortunately he does not offer up any clues as to why he purged it. Finally to summarize Mike and Becky Patty Part Two Podcast is unavailable instead Grey substituted a 60 minute + video titled Abby and Libby Delphi Round Table Discussion.

Broken, unavailable or modified links seem to happen in every single case I have followed. It is very frustrating when we document MSM sources only to have them later made unavailable.

MOO

This one? It’s still available although I haven’t watched it yet as its a long one, 1:07:31. How do we know the video was substituted?

Abby and Libby case Round Table - with Becky Patty Part 2

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And then Part 1. 1:06:32

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[Cutiekitty]

This one? It’s still available although I haven’t watched it yet as its a long one, 1:07:31. How do we know the video was substituted?

Abby and Libby case Round Table - with Becky Patty Part 2

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And then Part 1. 1:06:32

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BP addresses the “couple” comment at about 15:50 in the first video (part 1) I’ll be honest, the second one (if this is the one originally posted) was hard for me to watch/listen to due to the host. There seemed to be an agenda and I want to come to my own conclusions based on what BP says. My heart goes out to BP.

 

[Charlot123]

Question, if one or two family members opt out but numerous others opt-in, wouldn’t they still be able to narrow a suspects DNA down to someone in that family? LE wouldn’t be able to compare DNA to that opted-out member but they would know their close. Is this correct?

Depends on the degree of connection. If there is one cousin who opts out but numerous ones from the same side opt in, probably, not because they share, in average, 12.5% of DNA. But if it is a third cousin, then on average, only 0.78% is shared, so your cousin may share 0.3% and you, 2%, with the perp, so it may matter.
Also, say, the perp is my relative on dad’s side. Then if dad drops out but I stay, it will be less informative.

Average percent DNA shared between relatives

 

[Backstroke10]

Depends on the degree of connection. If there is one cousin who opts out but numerous ones from the same side opt in, probably, not because they share, in average, 12.5% of DNA. But if it is a third cousin, then on average, only 0.78% is shared, so your cousin may share 0.3% and you, 2%, with the perp, so it may matter.
Also, say, the perp is my relative on dad’s side. Then if dad drops out but I stay, it will be less informative.

Average percent DNA shared between relatives

Thanks Charlot123! Great information. I’m torn on this issue. I love how this can solve crimes but I also understand the “Big Brother” privacy issues as well. MOO

 

[TL4S]

Didnt they use that as part of the LE staging area? At the very least that area was not considered at first and searchers parked there. It was contaminated before they even knew it was an area of interest.

I know I seem obsessed with cameras, but I've wondered if the state or city owned the abandoned building, maybe they had a security camera up? Maybe not, if they were planning to demolish it anyway, but since abandoned buildings are prime targets for vandalism, I'm just curious...

Also curious about a camera on the Delphi U-store storage facility up the road.