Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #104

[Charlot123]

we don’t know if it is a he, a she, the age, the looks, nothing. I guess LE has done a lot of work trying to cross-match alibis and going through the tips. My guess is, the person is very quiet, JP-style and lives near Delphi, in a certain isolation, but I may be wrong.

They should know better whose alibis don’t match. Maybe they should look at very quiet types living around Delphi, too, not only the loud guys with bad police record. JP’s case should be an eye-opener.

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

Teens should be allowed to go to a park and enjoy life. Criminals have taken this away from us.
Honestly, it should have been safe!!!

I agree. Really what is the murder rate in rural Indiana? Pretty low I bet. These kids were in the wrong place at the wrong time. It isn’t the parents fault for letting the kids enjoy life!

 

[PaulaDC]

Interesting, how long ago did that happen?

Within this past year.

 

[tresir2012]

​

Do we know where the 2:07 pic was posted? By that I mean, was it just posted to LG’s story (so only her friends could see it) or was it posted to our story (made public) or both?

For those that don’t know about Our Story in SC....you can opt to post a photo or video publicly and SC groups the pics by area or even event. For example posts at places like Disney are all grouped together and anyone can just browse and see what everyone is posting.

I’m sure LE checked out the our story posts that day for both the trail and Delphi to see who else might’ve been in the area. Might have no impact on this case, but it’s something to consider for future cases. Got to be quick because the posts disappear.

I don't think we know but if the little timer icon which shows on the pic is an indication, from what I have had explained to me on here, that seems to indicate it was only available temporarily as you suggested and was screenshot to show to LE and MSM but AJMAOO.

 

[Jaclin]

I agree on a personal level but on the flip side, wouldn't it be like, for a small town like Delphi, where were you the day Kennedy was killed?

You might remember where you were when you heard about it. I remember where I was when I heard about 9/11. It was my 2nd day of work. I can't tell you how I spent the early morning, previous afternoon, or evening, though. This is kinda like that. If you know that something is happening, you'll be hyper alert, but the 13th was just another day for most people. A lot of people didn't know about it until the 14th or later. So, they might still remember where they went that day, but they might not know exactly what time they went or came back. They might, for example, only remember it was sometime in the morning before work or in the afternoon after work. Some people are better at remembering the details than others. Even now, if someone asked me what time I got home yesterday I couldn't say. I know it was sometime in the evening, but statements like that aren't really going to be very helpful for alibis.

 

[tresir2012]

They don’t need to. A couple of amateur genealogists with own DNA and a long Delphi trees would be enough. However, before police does anything, people who are in Gedmatch, should go to Gedmatch Genesis and turn on their DNAs to be allowed to be used for police identification. Opt in. The option is a pen next to the kits. Because today only 10% of Gedmatch participants have done so.

Do you think LE have done that (ie your first sentence) and that is why they are now saying he is from Delphi and may still return to visit? That would explain that IMO.

 

[BlueShoe]

Does anyone know of a photo of the abandoned Social Services building that is not a map, but shows the side of the building? Or do you know if it was a brick building? This may or may not be important, but I would appreciate any help. MOO

 

[mtnlites]

When LE says that the killer may look younger than he is would that be because the witness said the person looked young? Why would they say that if they don't know who the person is. JMHO

IMO because the witness was able to describe him but was unable to provide an actual age because they don't know him. Saying that he looks X age but acquiescing that he could be older and just look younger is a way of covering a wider range of people.

 

[tresir2012]

Personally, although it may sound like a good idea, I'm just not comfortable with that approach. Rather, if LE have certain individuals as strong suspects and they have viable DNA from the scene, why not just wait for some cast-off DNA and run that for a match. I haven't committed a crime nor do I intend to, but I'm sure my DNA is out there all over the place. I'm blessed with a full head of hair at my age but I lose a hand full a day at least. Goodness only knows where it all ends up. Hopefully, not in a parking lot that turns into a crime scene

Well it would be voluntary. I don't think LE have any viable suspects any more and they have been swabbing suspects. I believe that was how they ruled out the prior suspects IMO.

 

[tresir2012]

Does anyone know of a photo of the abandoned Social Services building that is not a map, but shows the side of the building? Or do you know if it was a brick building? This may or may not be important, but I would appreciate any help. MOO

You can see it on street view in 2015.

 

[squareandrabbet]

I agree on a personal level but on the flip side, wouldn't it be like, for a small town like Delphi, where were you the day Kennedy was killed?

I remember all of it, but then again, it ended up being a day outside of my usual from the very beginning, so I suppose that’s why I can remember what happened before, during and after I heard about the attacks even more clearly.

As another point of reference, I am known amongst my friends as "the group historian". I have an excellent memory and have lived in New York City, through both 9/11 and the multi-state blackout caused by a transformer lightning strike. Over time, I find that while I would have thought I have remembered everything with extreme clarity (I think that biologically scientists have said that memories can be fixed in your mind by, amongst other reasons of course, floods of adrenaline); over the past several years, I have gradually found difficulty in remembering "which crisis went with what", like such - "when did I take the MetroNorth train out of town?... no, that can't be during the blackout, because electricity doesn't differentiate between the subway and MetroNorth (a separate system)... or does it?" "... was that when I lived in New Jersey, or was that when I lived in the Bronx? No, wait, if I had to get to New Jersey after 9/11 that would have been impossible, because the Towers would have fallen down on the train system I take. That must have been the day I searched desperately for an express bus, any bus, to take me anywhere in the Bronx from where I could then walk home."

TL;DR: IMO, your long term memory fades with time passed, and it's highly likely that you will remember "that" something happened; but may not necessarily remember it fixed in the time-space continuum. Conversely, sometimes I can remember things like particular pieces of striking clothing my friends have worn and owned, when they wore them, and what we ate and drank when they met, etc.

For those interested in further reading on the topic of memory and recall, a beginning discourse on "types of memory" follows:

Episodic Memory and Semantic Memory - Types of Memory - The Human Memory

 

[Charlot123]

I will always have the belief you cant predict future behavior. Even if you live next door to a convicted pedophile how do you know he will reoffend? You dont.

Time and time and time again we have witnessed horrific crimes by people not in the system. Vegas shooter had no serious priors. Jayme Closs kidnapper had no serious priors.

I bet you this guy has nothing on his background.

Only way to prevent crime is to attack the brain and mindset.

I think he’ll have nada on his background.
But, he is very dangerous to women and children of both sexes. MOO.

To get him on the radar, one has to understand. LE himself is emotional, social, and assumes the guy is, like him, religious, and has conscience. IRL, the person might be very different.

They need to use JP for profiling.

Vegas shooter is of the same type but age outlier, so I wonder, maybe he had some form of early-onset dementia? Lewy body or so?

 

[Spartygirl]

Does anyone know of a photo of the abandoned Social Services building that is not a map, but shows the side of the building? Or do you know if it was a brick building? This may or may not be important, but I would appreciate any help. MOO

 

[mtnlites]

Personally, although it may sound like a good idea, I'm just not comfortable with that approach. Rather, if LE have certain individuals as strong suspects and they have viable DNA from the scene, why not just wait for some cast-off DNA and run that for a match. I haven't committed a crime nor do I intend to, but I'm sure my DNA is out there all over the place. I'm blessed with a full head of hair at my age but I lose a hand full a day at least. Goodness only knows where it all ends up. Hopefully, not in a parking lot that turns into a crime scene

I'm not comfortable with that, either. And pressing me for an alibi just because I refused to submit to a voluntary DNA test? That sounds awfully scary and not entirely legal. In fact, if LE came up to me (and I KNEW that I didn't have anything to do with the crime) and said, "Give us your DNA or else you need to supply us with your alibi for such-and-such date" then it would probably make me even more likely to turn them down. And lawyer up.

 

[mtnlites]

I agree. I'd be sent to the gallows for sure. Can't remember from day to day an alibi or specific time I was somewhere. Not to excuse any deliberate lies among those questioned in this case, but sprinkled in there are people like me that simply live and do normal-and sometimes unscheduled-things and get mixed up on what day it was.

And if it's a normal day and nothing particular stands out during it, then there's no real reason for me to remember it. I work from home. I'll sometimes go a week without leaving my yard.

I started to say that they could check my internet activity for an alibi but I just realized that, more specifically, they could just come to WS and check my posts and log ins. I'm sure I'm on here at least once an hour.

 

[tresir2012]

Thanks Jax, that's interesting to me that it was said about the first sketch released guy, that according to a close-up witness, he didn't have blue eyes. One of the things I find fascinating about the "DNA testing research" mentioned by Sheriff Leazenby is the blue-eyed gene mutation marker, the "switch". It could serve to narrow down the gene pool a lot more for investigators if the suspected killer's DNA shows he has it, as only 8-10% of humans do. We can only hope and pray.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2008/02/dont-it-make-your-brown-eyes-blue

Maybe that is how they discounted that sketch with the DNA from the crime scene. E .g. perhaps DNA does indicate blue eyes?
MOO

 

[tresir2012]

I'm not comfortable with that, either. And pressing me for an alibi just because I refused to submit to a voluntary DNA test? That sounds awfully scary and not entirely legal. In fact, if LE came up to me (and I KNEW that I didn't have anything to do with the crime) and said, "Give us your DNA or else you need to supply us with your alibi for such-and-such date" then it would probably make me even more likely to turn them down. And lawyer up.

I certainly would have no objection, especially if I thought it would help catch a double child killer, but I understand the reservations. I don't know if I would want it on file forever, but having the choice for local purposes only would be fair I think. MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

Maybe that is how they discounted that sketch with the DNA from the crime scene. E .g. perhaps DNA does indicate blue eyes?
MOO

If Delphi was founded by Brits, Germans and Dutchmen, high chance of some Viking DNA, surely. The blue-eyed population is shrinking down in general, but Delphi might have one of “pockets”.

 

[mtnlites]

I agree on a personal level but on the flip side, wouldn't it be like, for a small town like Delphi, where were you the day Kennedy was killed?

It might sound weird to people like us, those who have followed every article and interview from the beginning, but despite how horrible these murders were there are still those who haven't heard about them. It didn't make everyone's life come to a stop. I was surprised when I was in Delphi back in August to find that one of my friends couldn't tell me when the crime happened and another couldn't tell me the girls' names (only referring to them as "the girls"). And I had some family members say, "I thought they'd already caught the guy?" For many, life just continued on as normal. At first I thought it was weird, but then I started thinking about our small town and our worst crime. A 14-year-old girl was on a walking trail just a few feet from downtown and she was beheaded. Still no arrest. I'm sure the family could tell you where THEY were when they learned the news and when it happened but the rest of us? I couldn't.

 

[mtnlites]

Well it would be voluntary. I don't think LE have any viable suspects any more and they have been swabbing suspects. I believe that was how they ruled out the prior suspects IMO.

It wouldn't be so voluntary if you were also threatened with a "then provide us with your alibi" if you refused.