Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

[Deleted member 102539]

Radio may be the answer.

^^ This, and stages. Maybe the answer. MOO

 

[Cutiekitty]

That's a tough one that could mean something significant or nothing at all and there's really no way to tell. On the one hand, we know that a car is somehow involved (the one parked at the old govt building) but we don't know what role it played. Maybe it just belonged to a witness. Maybe RL really did see someone in a car and somehow connected it to the girls.

On the other hand...

My relatives up there say weird things like that all the time and it stumps me. They'll use "the" instead of "a" and it will confuse me because I'll think they're talking about something specific. "Well, they went to the restaurant." "Which restaurant?" "Well how should I know?" You know, when there's like 10 restaurants they could be at. Or when something is completely out of context and I'll just assume that I missed part of the conversation. Since we don't know what RL's experiences are, it's hard to say why he made that comment. In his world, though, maybe he hears about sneaky teens who miss curfews and ride off with friends when they're meant to be going home. He's lived there a long time. He knows young people go to the park. He may have even known there were others there that day. Maybe that was just his clunky way of saying, "I never thought they were hurt or dead, I just figured someone they knew came along and they went for a ride."

Like you, though, I've thought about this a lot. Would love to have it clarified. It's either REALLY important or not important at all.

BBM - I think that is what he is saying.

Is it possible that might have been what happened? Could the girls have known BG? He happens to be at the trail that day and saw the SC post at the bridge so he knows they are there too - they wouldn’t have had to formally announce their location it was broadcast via the pic. Maybe he’s parked at the abandoned building when he sees the post and drives to where they were dropped off at, walks to the bridge and asks them if they want to go for a ride. They think he’s kind of weird, but he’s got a car and seems harmless. There wouldn’t be sounds of a struggle because they left willingly. Maybe they ride into town (MP - phone pinging around town), but insist on coming back to the trail area because that’s where they are supposed to be picked up. Maybe BG wants to hang out more and he normally hangs out in the crime scene area. They don’t want to go, but he takes them to the cemetery anyway and forces them down that hill. Since he’s acting weird maybe this is when LG decided to record what was happening. Things go sideways very quickly and afterwards he goes back up to his car and leaves.

As a person with knowledge of the area and a LOT of knowledge of the case, is this even possible?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

“The person apparently gave the investigating officers the information they were looking for. We have to try to go back and check on the information that we have received."

I think, the investigating officers asked the wrong question, because they didn't know better at this early time. They got an answer to that question, which seemed satisfying and "what they were looking for". Investigation done, check. Looking for the wrong face (head on top of OBG's body ), all seemed okay with it until 2019, when a new important tip came in. The tip brought it to the surface, that in 2017 they (LE) got a right answer to a wrong question, therefore overlooking a certain person. - My thoughts and MOO.

 

[MistyWaters]

I interpret this as they probably interviewed BG. When they did BG gave an alibi. Now, for some reason, there is doubt about that alibi and they are going back and checking on it. Maybe they said they were at work and they were, but they failed to mention they left early or got there late.

You could be right but in how it reads, Riley contradicts himself by his owns words. If Riley knows who the murderer is IMO he should be “trying” to go back and check the information instead of talking to reporters. It’s highly unusual for LE to offer a suspect advance notice of an impending arrest and if that was his intention, he need not be vague because the murderer surely knows whether or not he’s been interviewed by LE.

“Somebody may have already interviewed him," said Riley. "I'm not going to say they have or have not, but there's a possibility that has happened. The person apparently gave the investigating officers the information they were looking for. We have to try to go back and check on the information that we have received."

 

[moonlessnight]

who knows, maybe authoring books runs in the family?

Or someone at church. Now with the weekend upon us, maybe someone reading this is local to Delphi, and this will bring some new possibilities to mind as to a possible suspect. What church? {shrug} Who knows? For those who go to church frequently, there are a number of voices one hears each week... Could be someone right near the door, handing you a church bulletin with announcements, etc. Could be someone standing near the coffee or the donuts. (Yeah, that close.) Could be...someone in the choir room (creepy thought, if it's someone that nearby). Maybe someone only semi-familiar and only well-known enough to say Good morning!, or... say (thinking out-loud here) someone making announcements, or leading the music/the worship (all MOO), or even... (grasping at straws here) could it be? Someone giving the message? Up on the platform? A youth pastor/sponsor, or children's minister? (Now that's extra-creepy, if it were someone in a trusted position like...that.)

Creepy, but...certainly not impossible.

Probably (again, MOO) the last place most people would think to look for a suspect. Great place to blend in...

"Hiding in.plain.sight..."

n. b. Just had this thought -- a church (and the various people who work there) would be an excellent place to "blend in", since many who work/volunteer at churches are very trusting souls (my general observations only; others may have different experiences), and... maybe...maybe someone at a church who might even occasionally see the suspect would immediately rush to cover for them: Him? Can't even imagine it -- why, he's not.that.kind.of.person. So trusting, perhaps, that they're missing a person right in front of them...
--
Church on Sunday. Murder on Monday. (sounds like a book title, but...also sounds creepily possible.)

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo they have been saying versions of “may have interviewed him already” for a while now, I think. It means nothing special. Most of what Carter and Riley say is so confusing...I understand almost none of it jmo.

 

[BNA]

You could be right but in how it reads, Riley contradicts himself by his owns words. If Riley knows who the murderer is IMO he should be “trying” to go back and check the information instead of talking to reporters. It’s highly unusual for LE to offer a suspect advance notice of an impending arrest and if that was his intention, he need not be vague because the murderer surely knows whether or not he’s been interviewed by LE.

“Somebody may have already interviewed him," said Riley. "I'm not going to say they have or have not, but there's a possibility that has happened. The person apparently gave the investigating officers the information they were looking for. We have to try to go back and check on the information that we have received."

I've been wondering if this investigation needs a shake up.

 

[Cutiekitty]

You could be right but in how it reads, Riley contradicts himself by his owns words. If Riley knows who the murderer is IMO he should be “trying” to go back and check the information instead of talking to reporters. It’s highly unusual for LE to offer a suspect advance notice of an impending arrest and if that was his intention, he need not be vague because the murderer surely knows whether or not he’s been interviewed by LE.

“Somebody may have already interviewed him," said Riley. "I'm not going to say they have or have not, but there's a possibility that has happened. The person apparently gave the investigating officers the information they were looking for. We have to try to go back and check on the information that we have received."

The vagueness would be for the public IMO. He’s not going to say they definitely interviewed BG. FB would explode.

They may have gone back and questioned BG and they are getting the same answers or getting no where. Another poster a while back mentioned the Jerry Michael Williams case and I’m wondering if the issues LE encountered with that case are what is happening in this case. LE knew who did it, the persons responsible knew they were suspects, but there wasn’t a way to prove they did it (well, not till one of them confessed). There was a lot of innuendo via the media and PC’s just like in this case.

“The person apparently gave the investigating officers the info they were looking for” was a poor word choice. Either he didn’t keep up with the vagueness for some reason or he was misquoted.

 

[moonlessnight]

I happened to watch the first episode of Criminal Minds recently. I was stunned to hear many of the same words come out of Carter's mouth at the April PC that Gideon used in his first profile. The "unsub" in that episode was a young, scrawny kid (18-22yo) who was an "extreme aggressor". I know the jargon used in C.M. is typical for profiles, but bc of the use of the reference to The Shack in the PC, I think Carter was referencing either that episode, or some other criminal profiling shows, as another message to the suspect. Maybe they know their suspect is obsessed with criminal shows, or forensics. Maybe they know their suspect is very much like the "unsub" in the first episode (impotent)? Maybe LE told the suspect in the PC they know who he is, based on messages placed in the PC.

Also, could there be a link between the girls and the killer based on an interest in forensics, however amateur?

Noop! I don't believe for a nano-second that he has "no close living relatives", or is a recluse, etc. What he does have? Immediate family that are frightened.out.of.their.minds. So frightened, in fact, that even though they know that telling LE about their relative is "the right thing to do", they are afraid of, oh -- soo many things: afraid of him (What'll he do when he finds out that we were the ones who turned him in?), afraid of their futures (We'll have to move! Everyone who's known us for years will shun us, or never again want to do business with us, etc., etc., re: their employment/employers, etc.), and just...filled with fears (after all, who can even begin to imagine what it would be like to be, say, immediate family members living in the same town, highly respected, seeing the suspect perhaps weekends, or once a week, etc., wondering if he might turn his angry impulses on them, murdering them?

n. b. While I have nothing other than MOO on this, I'm thinking that the suspect did not directly tell his family; rather, I think that he "ambiguously" told someone (i. e., told someone indirectly, without actually telling the "what" of his crime) who does know his family/at least one of his parents very well (and imagine how awful it would be, to have to have the burden of that knowledge). How thankful I was last evening to see & hear Supt. DC on a video link that a WS-er provided from a very recent interview that someone (the Armchair Detective? not sure) had with DC. During the course of that brief interview, DC very clearly stated that LE will protect [the informant]. Hearing *that* was a great "bright spot" in this case, I thought. (They've probably said it privately, LE to each other, but...have never been so clear about that as DC was on the short video I saw/heard last evening.) Sorry I'm not good at locating things yet here on WS, or I'd post it for everyone to watch...

That "offer of protection" -- by LE -- very well *may* be a game-changer in this case. Praying that the suspect's family and confidante(s) will DO the right thing, and SOON.

 

[sunshineray]

The bolded section bothers me, and makes me wonder if they are getting taunting communications from the killer. I haven't seen that mentioned, please forgive me if it has and I missed it.

To me it sounded like yeah maybe we talked to him but maybe not, then in the next breath, he told us some stuff that made sense but now we're going back and checking that info again. All very confusing unless it's just like poster MistyWaters said, bad reporting and mixing answers to different questions together incorrectly.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I know the jargon used in C.M. is typical for profiles, but bc of the use of the reference to The Shack in the PC, I think Carter was referencing either that episode, or some other criminal profiling shows, as another message to the suspect. Maybe they know their suspect is obsessed with criminal shows, or forensics.

If they know already, their suspect is possibly not obsessed, but at least very interested in crime/criminal mind/perhaps criminal psychology, then they have to know, who he is, IMO. Missing is "the car" or "a car" or "a vehicle" and a time between noon and 5pm and 1-2 witnesses, it seems.
Today is the day - or today June is beginning, let's hope for an arrest before June will end.

 

[moonlessnight]

yes, agreed. something stated in the CM episode that was similar to the PC was that the killer wants power and has likely inserted himself into the case in order to find out what LE knows, and that LE has probably interviewed him already.

I agree that they are waiting for a link or proof/witness of who was driving the vehicle, and that it is not anyone else who may have borrowed the vehicle or that it may have been jointly registered to.

If they know already, their suspect is possibly not obsessed, but at least very interested in crime/criminal mind/perhaps criminal psychology, then they have to know, who he is, IMO. Missing is "the car" or "a car" or "a vehicle" and a time between noon and 5pm and 1-2 witnesses, it seems.
Today is the day - or today June is beginning, let's hope for an arrest before June will end.

 

[Charlot123]

Just some thoughts on "hiding in plain sight". That idiom means, "Something [Someone] that defies apprehension by being too obvious".

At first the LE's selective attention, their focus would naturally gravitate towards who the local oddballs are and who are the randoms to the community.

A loner type killer that's been discussed a lot doesn't want to be obvious. Loners strive to be invisible and separate from others. They tend to feel uncomfortable when attention is turned their way and comfortable with the feeling of being cloistered.

If you add to the "hiding in plain sight" the "could be in this room right now", it seems that the person the LE has changed their strategy for is not a loner type at all. It's a person who ventures out regularly, is involved in Delphi's day to day and has shown interest in the case but only as much interest as everybody else around and involved with them has shown. "Hiding in plain sight" with all the other frightened, upset and caring citizens that may have participated in searching and then surely in vocalizing that they wanting a monster caught. Being involved in a way that just seemed so very normal for who they are and how they fit in the community.

In listening to ISP Carter's words from the April PC again and again, I get a very strong feeling that the girl's killer was in plain sight, easy to see after the murders. I think he might possibly have helped search on the 13th and most likely on the 14th. I think whatever he said, if and when asked, seemed perfectly logical to local LE so he wasn't even considered as suspect.

Something happened after mid January, IMO. Maybe it was DNA family tree research, maybe just a tip but there was a reboot and a revelation. I think the recent silence from LE is a very good thing and justice is coming for Libby and Abby. AJMO and praying it's so.

He may be “a loner”, and yet “not a loner”.

“The term is “an ambivert”, a seemingly extroverted introvert. It happens to people who are, by nature, introverted, but hypercompensate by pushing themselves to be in the crowd, so to say. They sometimes end up drinking too much as alcohol socially disinhibits them. (Parents usually state that their shy kid suddenly blossomed in college (duh...). )

Or else, they do not hypercompensate, but are merely extroverted within the frameworks of their chosen profession.

So the BG still may be a loner, in a way.

 

[Charlot123]

yes, agreed. something stated in the CM episode that was similar to the PC was that the killer wants power and has likely inserted himself into the case in order to find out what LE knows, and that LE has probably interviewed him already.

I agree that they are waiting for a link or proof/witness of who was driving the vehicle, and that it is not anyone else who may have borrowed the vehicle or that it may have been jointly registered to.

Can they interview both owners of the car? Unless someone can confirm that he/she borrowed the car, one of the owners might have a shaky alibi.

 

[Charlot123]

My own impression of LE asking "why" is just a general, why does this sort of thing happen? Why does a human being reach a point where they decide to wipe out the lives of two young girls?

Unless BG stopped to explain his reasoning on the audio, his motive likely wasn't clear. But who knows, except LE, of course. JMO

My interpretation is along the lines of “et tu, Brute?” The feeling of betrayal. And also, “what did not you have, to join the ranks of murderers?”

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Men in general brag about themselves.
(Ducking!)

Some men even have reason to brag about themselves, but these men, I think, will not tell anyone about their secret, if it is violent double murder. Maybe, they would say not more than, they did something bad in their past. MOO

 

[cluciano63]

I wonder sometimes if the sheriff is having some sort of emotional breakdown over this case...his words are so jumbled and confusing, almost every time he speaks. Jmo, it can happen.

I am fairly convinced they do NOT have a suspect or even a suspicion of a specific person.

The only way I would believe they do is if they do NOT have any DNA so can’t get an item to test him. But then if they don’t have DNA, how have they been eliminating people for two years?

 

[cluciano63]

Some men even have reason to brag about themselves, but these men, I think, will not tell anyone about their secret, if it is violent double murder. Maybe, they would say not more than, they did something bad in their past. MOO

Agree, killing children is NOT braggable...even to other killers. This guy has not told anyone.
Jmo

 

[MistyWaters]

I happened to watch the first episode of Criminal Minds recently. I was stunned to hear many of the same words come out of Carter's mouth at the April PC that Gideon used in his first profile. The "unsub" in that episode was a young, scrawny kid (18-22yo) who was an "extreme aggressor". I know the jargon used in C.M. is typical for profiles, but bc of the use of the reference to The Shack in the PC, I think Carter was referencing either that episode, or some other criminal profiling shows, as another message to the suspect. Maybe they know their suspect is obsessed with criminal shows, or forensics. Maybe they know their suspect is very much like the "unsub" in the first episode (impotent)? Maybe LE told the suspect in the PC they know who he is, based on messages placed in the PC.

Also, could there be a link between the girls and the killer based on an interest in forensics, however amateur?

If LE has a known suspect, I can’t think of one valid reason to play dangerous public mind games with him. Then on one hand commending the people of Delphi for their cooperation, but turning around and placing the 11th hour burden on to their shoulders for that “one tip” they need to identify the supposedly unknown suspect indicated in a “ballpark likeness” sketch described to be between 20 and 40 years old who might be living amongst them.

IMO that’d be the epitome of despicable. Either LE knows who the suspect is or they don’t and therefore require the community’s help. But I can’t see how it can be both.

 

[FleurQualia]

I wonder sometimes if the sheriff is having some sort of emotional breakdown over this case...his words are so jumbled and confusing, almost every time he speaks. Jmo, it can happen.

I am fairly convinced they do NOT have a suspect or even a suspicion of a specific person.

The only way I would believe they do is if they do NOT have any DNA so can’t get an item to test him. But then if they don’t have DNA, how have they been eliminating people for two years?

TBH I teeter on the edge of losing hope. Trying to maintain it for these two girls, though.