Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

[sleuther0192837465]

*program alert "Still a Mystery" on Investigation discovery on the Delphi Murders

Airing now

This is making cry....even though I’ve seen/read everything about this case....it’s just so heart breaking

 

[ab01]

Right after the 4/22 PC police stated they followed up with about 1000 individuals so far and have few dozen left to process. Some of the 1000 must have been asked to give a DNA sample.

During the recent allowed DC Youtube interview, the interviewer asked DC if they have DNA, DC said he could not answer that. The interviewer went on and said a "lead detective said there was DNA."
Carter was strong in asking who had said that. The interviewer said it was early on in the case, and DC relaxed, I supposed remembering that instance of early slip in the security of the case details.

I absolutely believe they have processed DNA, I'm just hesitant to believe for certain that any of its is linked directly to the victims bodies and is actually BG's

They very well may have BG's DNA that they have confirmed through lab testing, But I'm not entirely convinced that they do

I believe that what some may see as a slip up early on may have been a simple case of Investigators knowing that they had DNA, But Lab testing had yet to determine who was the source of said DNA.

It would not totally surprise me to learn that the DNA that they have processed was not that of BG's

Like I said I'm hopeful that they do infact have BG's DNA but I can certainly envision a scenario where they thought they did and after testing it ended up being from an individual that was proven not involved and had left a cigarette days before the crime or what have you

I would still expect that they would continue taking Buccal swabs to possibly compare in the future if that was the case

But as far as ppl on SM claiming that someone has been cleared bc of DNA, Honestly I put no value in any of that

Like I said before I'm hopeful, But I wouldn't bet the farm on it

 

[ab01]

This is making cry....even though I’ve seen/read everything about this case....it’s just so heart breaking

Yah its well done, a more personable side to it, really tugs at the heart strings

 

[BigTexas]

I am starting to think that YBG dressed up as OBG...as in like his father. That is why this case is complex. Especially if you use dad's USED clothes, then some of dad's DNA may pop up on fibers. MOO (To add to this, maybe YBG got mad at OBG and thought he could frame him?) MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

I meant the off the wall comment in this context. If the ISP has absolutely no evidence pointing to someone or even just a family, saying that he could be in this room would not be a truthful statement especially when taken with everything else he said. I know LE sometimes are not completely truthful/accurate when trying to catch a killer(s) but that, IMO, would be an obsurd thing to say, unless they have narrowed it down enough to say that. I was gobsmacked when those words came out of his mouth, just speechless. AJMO

Suggesting the killer could be in the room isn’t a definitive statement though, so it can’t ever be proven either true or false. It’s merely a possibility involving speculation. Had Carter announced the killer was in the room, if Carter wasn’t certain, that’d be an example of a false and misleading statement.

If, as LE now believe, the killer has strong local ties, considering the PC was advertised to the public in advance and was held in Delphi, plus the fact it’s well established killers are compelled to follow happenings involving their crimes, all that I think is the reason Carter stated the killer could be in the room. His comment was intended to make locals very aware the killer could be walking amongst them, going unnoticed. That’s how I perceive it anyway, for what it’s worth.

 

[kkdj]

dbm.

 

[kkdj]

This is making cry....even though I’ve seen/read everything about this case....it’s just so heart breaking

I haven't been able to watch it, but these cases are so sad.

 

[ab01]

Suggesting the killer could be in the room isn’t a definitive statement though, so it can’t ever be proven either true or false. It’s merely a possibility involving speculation. Had Carter announced the killer was in the room, if Carter wasn’t certain, that’d be an example of a false and misleading statement.

If, as LE now believe, the killer has strong local ties, considering the PC was advertised to the public in advance and was held in Delphi, plus the fact it’s well established killers are compelled to follow happenings involving their crimes, all that I think is the reason Carter stated the killer could be in the room. His comment was intended to make locals very aware the killer could be walking amongst them, going unnoticed. That’s how I perceive it anyway, for what it’s worth.

Yup He likely wanted the locals to think long and hard about the people they know and consider the fact that the killer is likely walking among them.

It was a very powerful tactic IMO

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I haven't been able to watch it, but these cases are so sad.

They are the worst Seeing these kids so happy & knowing that somebody took that away is just sickening ;(

 

[MistyWaters]

I am starting to think that YBG dressed up as OBG...as in like his father. That is why this case is complex. Especially if you use dad's USED clothes, then some of dad's DNA may pop up on fibers. MOO (To add to this, maybe YBG got mad at OBG and thought he could frame him?) MOO

I think this case is far more complex with absolutely no connection between the individuals depicted by the two sketches. And considering the suggested age range of OBG was 40s to 50s and YBG 20s to 30s, the respective ages could be 40 and 39. LE also stressed that YBG might appear younger than his true age, as opposed to older.

If LE had any reason to believe the two men might be connected, that’d have been a very important detail when asking for that “one tip” to help solve the case IMO. But they didn’t.

 

[ab01]

I think this case is far more complex with absolutely no connection between the individuals depicted by the two sketches. And considering the suggested age range of OBG was 40s to 50s and YBG 20s to 30s, the respective ages could be 40 and 39. LE also stressed that YBG might appear younger than his true age, as opposed to older.

If LE had any reason to believe the two men might be connected, that’d have been a very important detail when asking for that “one tip” to help solve the case IMO. But they didn’t.

Yep the most likely reason for this case not being solved is the absolute randomness of it and by an absolute unkown individual. If this was a case of someone familiar to the victims we wouldn't still be here

Statistically these are the most difficult crimes to solve

 

[Dontknow?]

I absolutely believe they have processed DNA, I'm just hesitant to believe for certain that any of its is linked directly to the victims bodies and is actually BG's

They very well may have BG's DNA that they have confirmed through lab testing, But I'm not entirely convinced that they do

I believe that what some may see as a slip up early on may have been a simple case of Investigators knowing that they had DNA, But Lab testing had yet to determine who was the source of said DNA.

It would not totally surprise me to learn that the DNA that they have processed was not that of BG's

Like I said I'm hopeful that they do infact have BG's DNA but I can certainly envision a scenario where they thought they did and after testing it ended up being from an individual that was proven not involved and had left a cigarette days before the crime or what have you

I would still expect that they would continue taking Buccal swabs to possibly compare in the future if that was the case

But as far as ppl on SM claiming that someone has been cleared bc of DNA, Honestly I put no value in any of that

Like I said before I'm hopeful, But I wouldn't bet the farm on it

I thought about the farm but didn't. Still thinking. I agree with you!

eta, I'll eat my old whatever if it's not one of the previous poi's.

 

[moonlessnight]

especially if he also used Dad's car.

I am starting to think that YBG dressed up as OBG...as in like his father. That is why this case is complex. Especially if you use dad's USED clothes, then some of dad's DNA may pop up on fibers. MOO (To add to this, maybe YBG got mad at OBG and thought he could frame him?) MOO

 

[k-mac]

Yep the most likely reason for this case not being solved is the absolute randomness of it and by an absolute unkown individual. If this was a case of someone familiar to the victims we wouldn't still be here

Statistically these are the most difficult crimes to solve

yep and murderess minds depend on that random zero connection.
unfortunately for bridge guy we have video, we have sound and odds are good for dna.
we have to believe that this is going down.

 

[mtnlites]

I absolutely believe they have processed DNA, I'm just hesitant to believe for certain that any of its is linked directly to the victims bodies and is actually BG's

They very well may have BG's DNA that they have confirmed through lab testing, But I'm not entirely convinced that they do

I believe that what some may see as a slip up early on may have been a simple case of Investigators knowing that they had DNA, But Lab testing had yet to determine who was the source of said DNA.

It would not totally surprise me to learn that the DNA that they have processed was not that of BG's

Like I said I'm hopeful that they do infact have BG's DNA but I can certainly envision a scenario where they thought they did and after testing it ended up being from an individual that was proven not involved and had left a cigarette days before the crime or what have you

I would still expect that they would continue taking Buccal swabs to possibly compare in the future if that was the case

But as far as ppl on SM claiming that someone has been cleared bc of DNA, Honestly I put no value in any of that

Like I said before I'm hopeful, But I wouldn't bet the farm on it

This is pretty much what I think as well. I believe they have DNA, but I'm not convinced that it's BG's, and they may not either. It's a public park and even on the private land where the girls were found, people absolutely could've dropped cigarette butts, Coke cans, etc. Even if the DNA was discovered on their bodies or clothing, there could be an innocent explanation for it. (Depending on the source and exact location, of course.) But I'm hopeful that what they have will eventually be helpful.

 

[mtnlites]

Yep the most likely reason for this case not being solved is the absolute randomness of it and by an absolute unkown individual. If this was a case of someone familiar to the victims we wouldn't still be here

Statistically these are the most difficult crimes to solve

I also agree with this. If there was an electronic connection or the perp was known to the girls then I think there'd have been some kind of a trail. At the very least one of their families would probably have recognized him or his voice. I think this is a total stranger to both girls and not anyone who has a significant role in the community.

 

[sunshineray]

I absolutely believe they have processed DNA, I'm just hesitant to believe for certain that any of its is linked directly to the victims bodies and is actually BG's

They very well may have BG's DNA that they have confirmed through lab testing, But I'm not entirely convinced that they do

I believe that what some may see as a slip up early on may have been a simple case of Investigators knowing that they had DNA, But Lab testing had yet to determine who was the source of said DNA.

It would not totally surprise me to learn that the DNA that they have processed was not that of BG's

Like I said I'm hopeful that they do infact have BG's DNA but I can certainly envision a scenario where they thought they did and after testing it ended up being from an individual that was proven not involved and had left a cigarette days before the crime or what have you

I would still expect that they would continue taking Buccal swabs to possibly compare in the future if that was the case

But as far as ppl on SM claiming that someone has been cleared bc of DNA, Honestly I put no value in any of that

Like I said before I'm hopeful, But I wouldn't bet the farm on it

You made me remember Dr. Lee talking about I think it was Jon Benet's clothing. There was foreign touch DNA registering on her panties. He made a very good argument that in fact it could be from the people who handled and packaged the clothes in production. Touch DNA, when there's no match coming up with LE databases, ancestry companies and swabbing POI's for testing, can be a very wide open field of contributors, even half way accross the world in a factory.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

I don’t know. For me, the Renner interviews with Kelsi were interesting, despite the 360 angle of his camera which I don’t have the app to watch that way and have to look at Kelsi on one side and Renner on the other with the background of the restaurant in the middle. She is very brave. I learned so much about the case, especially that a group of teens were around the trailhead that day. Check Renner out, if you haven’t already.

Ive had a request in to Tricia, via Harmony2, to see if I can post the James Renner series of 'Virtually a Detective' 10 eps relating to the Delphi case. Will give a little bump to the request as a few posters are mentioning it. Imo its a well balanced and useful source.

 

[Charlot123]

I absolutely believe they have processed DNA, I'm just hesitant to believe for certain that any of its is linked directly to the victims bodies and is actually BG's

They very well may have BG's DNA that they have confirmed through lab testing, But I'm not entirely convinced that they do

I believe that what some may see as a slip up early on may have been a simple case of Investigators knowing that they had DNA, But Lab testing had yet to determine who was the source of said DNA.

It would not totally surprise me to learn that the DNA that they have processed was not that of BG's

Like I said I'm hopeful that they do infact have BG's DNA but I can certainly envision a scenario where they thought they did and after testing it ended up being from an individual that was proven not involved and had left a cigarette days before the crime or what have you

I would still expect that they would continue taking Buccal swabs to possibly compare in the future if that was the case

But as far as ppl on SM claiming that someone has been cleared bc of DNA, Honestly I put no value in any of that

Like I said before I'm hopeful, But I wouldn't bet the farm on it

Theoretically, there is a way to clear someone of the suspicion, but probably, not rule the suspect in. And I hope that they do have at least this...

Think of a hair shaft without a viable follicle. Someone is balding, or simply shedding hair because of stress. One can get mitochondrial DNA from it.

Mitochondrial DNA is a tricky thing. It is not nuclear DNA. It is different, its own. It could be very rare, or common. A rare is very interesting.

A regular "H" mitogroup, for example, won't tell much. Except for European ancestry.
However, even in the "regular" one, there might be private mutations that can make it very rare, although, still an H.

So if LEs have the material with rare mitogroup, then the whole maternal line of the suspect needs to be checked, who else might have it, how high is the chance of the person living in Delphi, being a male, etc, etc. However, don't expect a "DNA match".

Now, if the rare hair matches the suspect, and the suspect had nothing to do near the killing place on 2/13, this might be interesting.

(I hope it was not a cigarette. First, not sure that the perp is smoking, second, such unexpected "gifts", most likely, are placed specially. He chose the girls, the place, he did it fast as fast could be, and he dropped a cigarette? No way).

People can drop a lot of things that can be of interest, however. They don't necessarily need to leave "touch" DNA that is difficult to prove, or cigarettes near the bodies.

 

[Charlot123]

I also agree with this. If there was an electronic connection or the perp was known to the girls then I think there'd have been some kind of a trail. At the very least one of their families would probably have recognized him or his voice. I think this is a total stranger to both girls and not anyone who has a significant role in the community.

I would not be surprised if he followed them on SM, though. Enough to get obsessed He does not need much. But for them, he was a total stranger, of course. He might be following a lot of young women.