Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

[sunshineray]

Watched ID channel's Still a Mystery: "Down the Hill". Some things said:

Libby's sister said when someone yelled out to her group, "a question about something the girl's were wearing" Kelsi then said "they had found one of the shoes". Narration goes on to say, "For a moment it feels like a sign of hope, but within minutes there's another discovery". So it seems confirmed that at least one of girl's shoe was off their foot and discovered away from the body. Nothing was said about what that distance was.
When the video was taken of BG coming towards them, "about 40 feet away", narrator says, "the only way to get to the spot that Libby's Dad was supposed to pick them up was to cross [back over] the narrow bridge". Then Abby's Mom says, "They couldn't pass each other. They were gonna have to wait for him to come to the side before they could go and I don't believe there's any running when it comes to a bridge like that". Later in the program after it being said that police did allow her to hear and see more of the audio and video, Abby's Mom says, "Libby says something like, well the path ends here so we can't go any farther".

The audio of BG speaking is extremely clear in this program. I've never heard killer's voice so cleaned up. The first release of "down the hill" now almost sounded like "he's down the hill" but then later, while talking about the newly released snippet they transcribed it as "Guys...get down the hill" and it does sound like that. The audio was pristine with none of that noise in between the "Guys" and the "get down the hill". If for no other reason, IMO, people in and around Delphi should watch this, turn the sound way up, and really hear the killer's voice so much clearer.

 

[castilloisno1]

I watched all 10 parts the other day highly recommended.

Is the audio bad for you on youtube when he is in the car? I have to have the volume way up?

 

[SeattleStew]

@sunshineray Thank you so much for taking your time to share. Can't wait to watch this. Sounds like new info. Good to hear.

 

[Charlot123]

I decided to post about the use of mitochondrial DNA in cold cases.

Mitochondrial DNA Examination of Cold Case Crime Scene Hairs

Limited, but might be useful.

They don’t enter mitochondrial DNA in CODIS database. A mistake. They should.

People who chose to opt into Gedmatch Genesis, should manually enter mito DNA type there. Please.

It is incredibly useful in identifying old skeletons and bone fragments.

(One of my family members has a very rare mitoDNA. 1:14000. We just found a match, it is definitely a direct maternal line. Fingers crossed. I do it for genealogy, but... Such cases, with rare mito, can be solvable.)

 

[x_files]

I am starting to think that YBG dressed up as OBG...as in like his father. That is why this case is complex. Especially if you use dad's USED clothes, then some of dad's DNA may pop up on fibers. MOO (To add to this, maybe YBG got mad at OBG and thought he could frame him?) MOO

This has crossed my mind as well...

 

[zencompass]

Watched ID channel's Still a Mystery: "Down the Hill". Some things said:

Libby's sister said when someone yelled out to her group, "a question about something the girl's were wearing" Kelsi then said "they had found one of the shoes". Narration goes on to say, "For a moment it feels like a sign of hope, but within minutes there's another discovery". So it seems confirmed that at least one of girl's shoe was off their foot and discovered away from the body. Nothing was said about what that distance was.
When the video was taken of BG coming towards them, "about 40 feet away", narrator says, "the only way to get to the spot that Libby's Dad was supposed to pick them up was to cross [back over] the narrow bridge". Then Abby's Mom says, "They couldn't pass each other. They were gonna have to wait for him to come to the side before they could go and I don't believe there's any running when it comes to a bridge like that". Later in the program after it being said that police did allow her to hear and see more of the audio and video, Abby's Mom says, "Libby says something like, well the path ends here so we can't go any farther".

The audio of BG speaking is extremely clear in this program. I've never heard killer's voice so cleaned up. The first release of "down the hill" now almost sounded like "he's down the hill" but then later, while talking about the newly released snippet they transcribed it as "Guys...get down the hill" and it does sound like that. The audio was pristine with none of that noise in between the "Guys" and the "get down the hill". If for no other reason, IMO, people in and around Delphi should watch this, turn the sound way up, and really hear the killer's voice so much clearer.

Dear @sunshineray,

Thank you so much for generously relaying the information from the show for us.

You are always greatly appreciated!

 

[sunshineray]

@sunshineray Thank you so much for taking your time to share. Can't wait to watch this. Sounds like new info. Good to hear.

You're very welcome. It was broadcast last night but I couldn't watch it til this morning.

The little snippets interspersed here and there with ISP Carter talking at the April PC, seeing them like that, I swear everytime he mentions anything about the killer being from Delphi or maybe in the room, age group he looks to be directly looking to the right, at someone, at that moment, with purpose. Anyone else ever get that feeling?

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Dear @sunshineray,

Thank you so much for generously relaying the information from the show for us.

You are always greatly appreciated!

IMHO It's always worth anyone who wants to watch it but cant watch it on TV or Stream it, checking on somewhere like youtube etc. Hopefully someone may have popped it on there?

 

[mtnlites]

To me, the ID special made it sound like he wasn't necessarily doing anything creepy on the bridge, they were just standing there at the end, waiting for him to cross so that they could then re-cross to go home. There have been lots of theories about how maybe he pushed one of them off, how he may have been doing something vulgar, etc. But it sounds like he just kind of blitz attacked when he reached the end.

I'm still not entirely convinced that they didn't cross back over and go "down the hill" on the other side. That would explain why they were on the opposite side of the creek. (Though I still think it was possible to wade through it, either through panic or by force.)

Abby's house was close as a crow flies and as viewed from an aerial position. It's not like they could've taken off at a run for it and been there in a couple of minutes, though. They'd have had to run across uneven ground, underbrush in some places, across ditches, and even over a couple of fences and that would've been before they reached the main road. We tried to walk the same route once. It was exhausting and not an easy walk.

 

[sunshineray]

To me, the ID special made it sound like he wasn't necessarily doing anything creepy on the bridge, they were just standing there at the end, waiting for him to cross so that they could then re-cross to go home. There have been lots of theories about how maybe he pushed one of them off, how he may have been doing something vulgar, etc. But it sounds like he just kind of blitz attacked when he reached the end.

I'm still not entirely convinced that they didn't cross back over and go "down the hill" on the other side. That would explain why they were on the opposite side of the creek. (Though I still think it was possible to wade through it, either through panic or by force.)

Abby's house was close as a crow flies and as viewed from an aerial position. It's not like they could've taken off at a run for it and been there in a couple of minutes, though. They'd have had to run across uneven ground, underbrush in some places, across ditches, and even over a couple of fences and that would've been before they reached the main road. We tried to walk the same route once. It was exhausting and not an easy walk.

It certainly sounded to me like Abby's Mom was saying Abby must have said something about getting out of there, something made her want to put distance between an approaching BG and herself. Abby's Mom said Libby commented something like "well the path ends here so we can't go any farther". It's heartbreaking and I wish they'd just taken off through the woods. Wasn't it Libby's Grandma who said the girls had mentioned a guy, whether they called him "creepy guy" or those were just her words. So sweet Abby was very uncomfortable as BG approached. This is how I interpret what Abby's Mom says about what she heard Libby say on the extra audio police let her listen to. AJMO

 

[mtnlites]

It certainly sounded to me like Abby's Mom was saying Abby must have said something about getting out of there, something made her want to put distance between an approaching BG and herself. Abby's Mom said Libby commented something like "well the path ends here so we can't go any farther". It's heartbreaking and I wish they'd just taken off through the woods. Wasn't it Libby's Grandma who said the girls had mentioned a guy, whether they called him "creepy guy" or those were just her words. So sweet Abby was very uncomfortable as BG approached. This is how I interpret what Abby's Mom says about what she heard Libby say on the extra audio police let her listen to. AJMO

Yes, there was some reference to him earlier in their walk.

I wasn't saying that he didn't do anything creepy, just that in that moment, right there on the bridge, she made it sound like they were waiting so that they could cross back over. To me, and maybe not to you, that eliminates the theory of him pushing one of the girls off the bridge so that he could attack the other-which is a very real theory that is going around.

 

[sunshineray]

Yes, there was some reference to him earlier in their walk.

I wasn't saying that he didn't do anything creepy, just that in that moment, right there on the bridge, she made it sound like they were waiting so that they could cross back over. To me, and maybe not to you, that eliminates the theory of him pushing one of the girls off the bridge so that he could attack the other-which is a very real theory that is going around.

Oh yeah, I don't think those girls stepped foot on that bridge after they initially crossed it. In fact I think they moved away from it some feet knowing if they were to cross it, they'd have to wait til BG got to the end. I think at least Libby felt stuck there because the path ended and both girls were feeling very uneasy which I believe made Abby want to go in the opposite direction away from the bridge and made Libby start recording video. Hearing Abby's Mom was so hearbreaking. She also said this:

Abby's Mom says at one point about Libby taking video, "What she did, is miraculous because that's the only way that we even knew...I mean outside of finding them deceased...that there was somebody out there or what they mighta looked like."

Then later speaking to the time period right after the sketch was released Abby's Mom said, "The police thought within the first few weeks with the sketch and the picture...this was gonna be a done deal. This was not gonna take long after that. This whole thing was gonna unfold fast, and it didn't".

 

[CSIDreamer]

What's the end of the bridge like? A big dropoff?

 

[sunshineray]

What's the end of the bridge like? A big dropoff?

It's like over a hillside, very steep terrain going downward to a small roadway under the bridge. The creek is aways back, more towards the middle or 3/4 way over, the way the girls and BG had come over.

 

[CSIDreamer]

It's like over a hillside, very steep terrain going downward to a small roadway under the bridge. The creek is aways back, more towards the middle or 3/4 way over, the way the girls and BG had come over.

So down the hill makes perfect sense, to me, in that context.

 

[mtnlites]

So down the hill makes perfect sense, to me, in that context.

There are "hills" on both ends of the bridge. They differ in grade, but either one could be considered a hill.

 

[moonlessnight]

this is making a lot of sense to me actually. the jeans look too big. and the coat. If YBG was wearing his dad's clothes, they may truly need the witness to clear up if this is a younger man or older man (father or son). Otherwise, the DNA and the vehicle could implicate both. Even if they suspect the son, they need an airtight case and any of the father's DNA will throw doubt.

If this is the case, I wonder if it was intentional to frame his own father, or just a disguise with no thought to what could happen.

In no way I am I saying that both sketches are relevant. I don't think sketch #1 is BG's father/OBG. I think sketch #2 is BG/YBG. BG's father was not there IMO and not seen, but his DNA may be there, and his vehicle.

This has crossed my mind as well...

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

There are "hills" on both ends of the bridge. They differ in grade, but either one could be considered a hill.

Great to have local knowledge on a thread.

Possibly dumb Q ahead ( and almost cert asked before!)

Ive seen video and maps etc of the SE end of the bridge but somehow just cant visualise or rationalise.

Given that the bridge carried rail, how does the trail ( of the rail line) terminate so decisively , so as to make continuation impossible, given that the rail track must have continued on when it was functional?

 

[mtnlites]

Great to have local knowledge on a thread.

Possibly dumb Q ahead ( and almost cert asked before!)

Ive seen video and maps etc of the SE end of the bridge but somehow just cant visualise or rationalise.

Given that the bridge carried rail, how does the trail ( of the rail line) terminate so decisively , so as to make continuation impossible, given that the rail track must have continued on when it was functional?

No, that's a great question. Most of the rails were removed when I was a kid so I don't really remember ever seeing the area as it was when trains actually ran. I used to think that the train literally had to stop there and couldn't go any further. But, to answer your question, there used to be rails that would take you right on to your next destination. The trail didn't end as decisively as it does now.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

No, that's a great question. Most of the rails were removed when I was a kid so I don't really remember ever seeing the area as it was when trains actually ran. I used to think that the train literally had to stop there and couldn't go any further. But, to answer your question, there used to be rails that would take you right on to your next destination. The trail didn't end as decisively as it does now.

Thanks mtnlites. Does it end by being blocked or overgrown etc or was there more support structure that carried the rail that is now not there etc?

What physically stops you continuing where the rails used to run after the bridge?

Sorry to be so thickskulled