Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

[moonlessnight]

in the Virtually a Detective video part 10, Renner said that the voice that says "down the hill" is when the mask comes off. It sounds different than when he says "guys". I think guys is said in his normal, recognizable voice. Down the hill is in his impulsive voice - the demand voice. when he drops his usual fake-ly normal voice. People may recognize the way he says "guys" but not the way he says "down the hill".

I was looking for this quote below a couple of days ago. I’ve no idea why it’s taken two years to confirm the voice and photo are of the same man but Carter now says so. Also “guys” and “down the hill” is the audio of the same person.

Aor 22/19
“Please keep in mind that the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls" Carter said. "This is not two people speaking. Please listen to it very, very carefully."...”
ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Delphi killer

 

[MizStery]

And Delphi is farmland. Low population density. The murderer doesn’t need to be on a good footing with either people or animals. He needs a little bit of luck.

bbm
Maybe, he is so very smart to know, that LE would think so: must be of the area, must be living in the area, must have connections to the area - and he is NOT. IMO and thoughts.

True. The police know he probably has close ties, but are aware someone could scouted the area well in advance to fake that local knowledge.

Thanks Charlot123 ,From Germany and Boxer for your replies.

That possibility is my worst nightmare. Perhaps BG just drifted around like Israel Keys scouting out random places always on the hunt. Lurking in the shadows ready to strike and carry out his evil unspeakable crimes against innocents.

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

"Surprised a bit that there hasn’t been more TALK in town since the presser"

Perhaps all in town are afraid of embarrassing themselves with a suspicion, that they have, but themselves consider highly unlikely.

Well said.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Thanks Charlot123 ,From Germany and Boxer for your replies.

That possibility is my worst nightmare. Perhaps BG just drifted around like Israel Keys scouting out random places always on the hunt. Lurking in the shadows ready to strike and carry out his evil unspeakable crimes against innocents.

MOO

Someone other than me here on WS had the idea in the early days already, the double murder might be connected to the IA double murder (L+L) through the dates 07132012 and 02132017. Recently I'm believing more than ever, that might be the case perhaps. IF it is connected indeed and the perp has a passion for dates/numbers/math, then this double murder of sweet A+L has to have been prepared/thought out since a long time possibly. Maybe, the perp knew: this date, come hell or high water; victims have to be 2 girls, no matter which; area has to be near a lake/creek/forest/wood/park. Maybe, the MHB was some unplanned and not important "addition" to the whole scenario, but useful for him and his quick mind.
Idk, if a felon would plan a murder on basis of a certain date?
All MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

Someone other than me here on WS had the idea in the early days already, the double murder might be connected to the IA double murder (L+L) through the dates 07132012 and 02132017. Recently I'm believing more than ever, that might be the case perhaps. IF it is connected indeed and the perp has a passion for dates/numbers/math, then this double murder of sweet A+L has to have been prepared/thought out since a long time possibly. Maybe, the perp knew: this date, come hell or high water; victims have to be 2 girls, no matter which; area has to be near a lake/creek/forest/wood/park. Maybe, the MHB was some unplanned and not important "addition" to the whole scenario, but useful for him and his quick mind.
Idk, if a felon would plan a murder on basis of a certain date?
All MOO.

Interesting idea. Sometimes people focused on dates have OCD, or obsessive, magical thinking. That would fit an older BG; certain other character traits ("a loner", "a daydreamer") are quite plausible.

They should look at other "13th" in between, in other states.

If he is obsessive, he might be "closing" some states, such as Midwestern belt, or the ones around the Great Lakes (IL-IN-MI-MN-NY-OH-PA-WI), or just doubles on the 13th? Then adult couples could also be included. And, I think, it would be simply "water".

 

[Charlot123]

Thanks Charlot123 ,From Germany and Boxer for your replies.

That possibility is my worst nightmare. Perhaps BG just drifted around like Israel Keys scouting out random places always on the hunt. Lurking in the shadows ready to strike and carry out his evil unspeakable crimes against innocents.

MOO

Another concern. Much as MO implies a man, and statistically it is likely a man, I hope LE are not fully neglecting women.

Voice is a very unpredictable thing. Especially on a recording. Today I answered a phone and was positive the call came from a woman; it appeared to be a man. The opposite things happen, too, and I am not implying anything specific. The BG person looks like a guy, but he also looks like an older guy; now we are told he's younger and thinner. In short, I hope LEs are checking females' alibis, too.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Interesting idea. Sometimes people focused on dates have OCD, or obsessive, magical thinking. That would fit an older BG; certain other character traits ("a loner", "a daydreamer") are quite plausible.

They should look at other "13th" in between, in other states.

If he is obsessive, he might be "closing" some states, such as Midwestern belt, or the ones around the Great Lakes (IL-IN-MI-MN-NY-OH-PA-WI), or just doubles on the 13th? Then adult couples could also be included. And, I think, it would be simply "water".

Interesting: OCD/Magical thinking.
In the early days, when the repetition of the 13th came up (question: coincidence or not), a member made a list of cases (missing/murdered girls), I vague remember.
IF the BG is now a younger perp, then the list hasn't to be as long as it was with the older perp, but certainly long enough (to work through).
You are right: IF he had an obsession with a murder on a 13th, maybe it could have been women too.
He seems to like the vicinity of "water" (lake/pond/creek/river - who knows), yes.
All that, IF there is a connection between Iowa and Indiana at all. MOO

 

[Angelcat13]

Yes! Even if there were mental health diagnoses he knew what he was doing.

Yes. IMO the fact that he has made attempts to conceal his involvement indicate he knew right from wrong which, I believe, would eliminate an insanity defense?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Another concern. Much as MO implies a man, and statistically it is likely a man, I hope LE are not fully neglecting women.

Voice is a very unpredictable thing. Especially on a recording. Today I answered a phone and was positive the call came from a woman; it appeared to be a man. The opposite things happen, too, and I am not implying anything specific. The BG person looks like a guy, but he also looks like an older guy; now we are told he's younger and thinner. In short, I hope LEs are checking females' alibis, too.

If you would ask me, I would say, the BG has to be a man for sure. But IF he had accomplices, it could have been a girl/a woman. Checking female's alibis perhaps would make a lot of sense. To select these will be ornate. IMO

 

[Mimi in London]

Interesting idea. Sometimes people focused on dates have OCD, or obsessive, magical thinking. That would fit an older BG; certain other character traits ("a loner", "a daydreamer") are quite plausible.
.

RSBM
Agreed, interesting. There is also a significant incidence of OCD in young people.

 

[SeattleStew]

DBM

 

[rosesfromangels]

If you would ask me, I would say, the BG has to be a man for sure. But IF he had accomplices, it could have been a girl/a woman. Checking female's alibis perhaps would make a lot of sense. To select these will be ornate. IMO

Law enforcement has given the general public instructions of who to look for; a man. We have a sketch which is representative of what this man might resemble. We have an audio clip of a man’s voice.
I think it is important to follow LE instructions in who we are seeking vs put out information that may confuse efforts, and unknowingly abet the Perp’s ongoing escape.

Amateur opinion and speculation.

 

[MizStery]

I’m not adding any narrative beyond LE. Focus.

rosesfromangels I learned the wisdom of your ‘post’ the hard way. Ouch,I still feel the poke administered by Websleuths Moderator ‘Nursebeeme’. Yes, Nurse’s persuasive ‘needling’ reminds me to this day to obey WS ‘TOS Rules’ or else!

 

[rosesfromangels]

rosesfromangels I learned the wisdom of your ‘post’ the hard way. Ouch,I still feel the poke administered by Websleuths Moderator ‘Nursebeeme’. Yes, Nurse’s persuasive ‘needling’ reminds me to this day to obey WS ‘TOS Rules’ or else!

I've made mistakes too, so you are in good company. : )
I appreciate this well moderated forum. WS is a cut above (way above) most of the salacious garbage posted elsewhere. We have some very talented people on this forum, and everyone contributes their part to thinking through these sad and complex crimes against society. In many cases, we have seen incredible outcomes based on WS contributions such as Doe identification, and so forth.
A worthy hobby! Peace and love to all

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[steeltowngirl]

I have a question that I’m sure has been answered before, but could someone please remind me?

Given that OSG and NSG are two different people and that NSG is the man in the video: Was the height, weight, general description of the suspect the same back in 2017 with OSG, as it is today with NSG?

Description: The person depicted in the composite sketch is described as a White male between 5'6" and 5'10", weighing 180 to 220 pounds, with reddish- brown hair. His eye color is unknown. The suspect is believed to be between 18 and 40 years old but may appear younger.
Multi-Agency Taskforce Clarifies Points about the Delphi Murder Suspect Sketches
https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/liberty-german/@@download.pdf

 

[HEY YOU!]

Hey all! I am trying to catch up so please be patient with me. In looking at BG's pic, the jacket appears huge. Perhaps an XL on a medium body. It bunches up on the sleeve and has room even though it appears there are clothing layers as well. What is that on BG's left leg shaped like a rectangle under the pants as he moves.

Who lived in the home with Libby?
Who is CP in relation to MP?
Did he live there at the time?
With regards to FSG, if he had not seen the 2 girls why would he send <modsnip: redacted name of family member> in a direction away from the crime scene? Also, could the 2 people he claimed he saw fighting (a couple I believe) have been BG and one of the girls after the other girl was killed? The timing was certainly right.
I thought the girls were doing some work to get some money to shop, what made them go to the trail instead?
Where was Abby's phone?
Was the phrase 'creepy guy' said by the girls on audio? If not, where did it come from?
Was there a witness who saw a man in black?

It had to be planned, BG appeared ready to kill. In my opinion of course. He had what appeared to be a gun and possibly other items under a huge jacket. It appeared something was also in his pockets or under his jeans on the left leg. He was in and out quickly.

BUT, did he know the girls? If random, why pick 2 girls instead of waiting for just one? This makes me think targeted. Which means he knew where they would be and approximately for how long. Either way, he certainly knew the area. And he definitely took some risks on this warm day with so many out. Did the girls see something like a drug deal? <modsnip: not victim friendly> Could one of the girls have a tracker app that BG had access to?

Thanks for your patience, I did try to get the answers but this thread is so dang long. I do hope we get closure for these girls.

 

[SeattleStew]

‘They Have A Tough Investigation Ahead:' Paul Holes On The Delphi Murders

Hello All, This was just posted on the Oxygen Network's website this morning. There is also a video. I'm hoping CrimeCon19 will broadcast the panel with Kelsi German today.

 

[Charlot123]

Interesting: OCD/Magical thinking.
In the early days, when the repetition of the 13th came up (question: coincidence or not), a member made a list of cases (missing/murdered girls), I vague remember.
IF the BG is now a younger perp, then the list hasn't to be as long as it was with the older perp, but certainly long enough (to work through).
You are right: IF he had an obsession with a murder on a 13th, maybe it could have been women too.
He seems to like the vicinity of "water" (lake/pond/creek/river - who knows), yes.
All that, IF there is a connection between Iowa and Indiana at all. MOO

If OCD about “numbers” (and we all have some of it, otherwise why are people afraid of “Friday the 13th?” - it was unlucky only for the Templars), then it truly might be that he dislikes the number 7. 07-13, or 13-2017. But it might have been that the first killing randomly fell on 07-13, and maybe afterwards he was lucky, and now he is somehow tied up to “doubles” and numbers.

There might be even "triples" as long as "no less than two" I think. And - the idea of "one case fulfilling all the conditions per each state" might be feasible. These connections are hard to trace because what do we know about a person's OCD? A date, with numbers, at least two people, either near water or a flat clearing, or "a meadow next to water"? Could it be the case?

ETA: he might be randomly "closing" the months. 07-13, 02-13, one year it will be 10-13, etc. Probably more likely than disliking nr 7, as I initially thought. So maybe in the database, one could look for killings falling on the 13th of each month, with at least a couple killed, fould close to water on a clearing, and see what else pans out? Some may not be found, as the intent is not for them to be found.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

I cant stop puzzling over the way this article explained the genesis of YSG .



'.......officials said the new image came about after some bit of new information that had been "continuously reviewed and examined." Authorities said the image "more accurately" depicted the face of the suspect from video recorded on German's cell phone while she and Abigail were on the High Bridge'

'New' Delphi suspect sketch was drawn days after murders of 2 Indiana girls, artist says

 

[MsBetsy]

Hey all! I am trying to catch up so please be patient with me. In looking at BG's pic, the jacket appears huge. Perhaps an XL on a medium body. It bunches up on the sleeve and has room even though it appears there are clothing layers as well. What is that on BG's left leg shaped like a rectangle under the pants as he moves.

Who lived in the home with Libby?
Who is CP in relation to MP?
Did he live there at the time?
With regards to FSG, if he had not seen the 2 girls why would he send <modsnip: redacted name of family member> in a direction away from the crime scene? Also, could the 2 people he claimed he saw fighting (a couple I believe) have been BG and one of the girls after the other girl was killed? The timing was certainly right.
I thought the girls were doing some work to get some money to shop, what made them go to the trail instead?
Where was Abby's phone?
Was the phrase 'creepy guy' said by the girls on audio? If not, where did it come from?
Was there a witness who saw a man in black?

It had to be planned, BG appeared ready to kill. In my opinion of course. He had what appeared to be a gun and possibly other items under a huge jacket. It appeared something was also in his pockets or under his jeans on the left leg. He was in and out quickly.

BUT, did he know the girls? If random, why pick 2 girls instead of waiting for just one? This makes me think targeted. Which means he knew where they would be and approximately for how long. Either way, he certainly knew the area. And he definitely took some risks on this warm day with so many out. Did the girls see something like a drug deal? <modsnip: not victim friendly> Could one of the girls have a tracker app that BG had access to?

Thanks for your patience, I did try to get the answers but this thread is so dang long. I do hope we get closure for these girls.

I don't think the couple arguing could have been mistaken for one of the girls arguing with the killer. She would have been screaming or crying in shock and horror if she had just seen her friend murdered.
From what I understand, the girls mentioned the killer on SC but did not necessarily mention the word creepy. They just indicated that they noticed him. I suspect that whatever she said made the family believe he was "creepy" in some way.
I don't think the girls witnessed anything like a drug deal or anything else that would cause the killer to murder them. It was a crime of opportunity in my opinion. He saw them and picked them to be his victims. Whether or not he had seen them before we don't know, but it is possible.
But I do think he killed just because he wanted to. Imo