Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106

[TL4S]

However we have no way of knowing if the aerial video captured from the helicopter included the body recovery site. I’m thinking it’s highly possible it didn’t, with respect of the victims, their families, also protecting the integrity of the investigation.

I guess all we can truly ascertain is that they were found not far from the creek's northern edge, somewhere on RL's property between the cemetery and 575 W. No matter the place, he made them cross the creek, which the more I look at the map, the more makes sense because that's the only direction he could really have gone to get out of view.

If he had bad intentions when he set foot on the trail that day, I'd still lay my bets on him parking at the cemetery. JMO

 

[Cutiekitty]

Looks like from the most southern part of the cemetery to the waters edge is approximately 700 feet.

From the photo posted earlier by Jethro you can see how close the water is to the crime scene. Maybe 100 feet in my estimation. It looks to me (my own opinion) that those flashes seen in the copter footage are at the staging area for LE vehicles at the very rear (southern part) of the cemetery. That still picture of Jethro's with the crime tape is so much closer to the water than it is to the cemetery.

It’s really not that far from the cemetery road to the edge of the water. It’s about .15 miles 241 feet or about a little over 1/2 a lap on a track. That is just a straight line though. I made a path from the end of the bridge going partway on the service road and across the creek at the sand bar to the estimated location of the scene and it was pretty much the same distance.

 

[moonlessnight]

I personally think the "new strategy" is looking directly at the person who gave them the first sketch, or at least one of the people who corroborated the info that led to the first sketch. The perp would never believe LE changed their strategy bc he is (one of) the one(s) who shone the light on the first sketch, and thought he had power over the investigation, directing attn away from himself. MOO.

"What, precisely is the 'new strategy' they are using...? There's this sketch....but what else?
They also say they 'know' it's about power for him....why? & why would they say he would believe they would 'never' use a new strategy...?"

At risk of sounding utterly obtuse - the 'new' sketch merely looks like a version that takes into consideration the perp could be younger than thought. You could say the previous sketch was simply an 'older' version of the perp in question......ie, he in reality does not look that 'old' - he could indeed not be a teen or early twenties - but his face is youthful looking. I have an acquaintance who overall looks older than she is & yet if you just look at her face she really has essentially zero signs of ageing - no wrinkles, lines etc. - a 'full' youthful face...but see her as a whole, so to speak: no one would think she was in her 20s. Perp may appear like this...

The statement by LE is quite something IMO.
What, precisely is the 'new strategy' they are using...? There's this sketch....but what else?
They also say they 'know' it's about power for him....why? & why would they say he would believe they would 'never' use a new strategy...?

It's all rather enigmatic
But most of all: that they have a good idea they have already interviewed the perp
To me this suggests the perp could indeed by a friend/acquaintance of the family, or of Abby/Libby personally...that's the initial net that would be spread (of course, otherwise could reference any already know predators, sex offenders in the area)

Where were the forensic classes Libby was taking - ? Have others taken the class been interviewed? Kinda ironic and maybe just too coincidental to not be connected......

If this isn't random - who would have known that Abby & Libby were going to the park/bridge...? Maybe an offhand comment that was overheard....

I'm mulling these questions over......haven't got no answers, lol.....
JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

I guess all we can truly ascertain is that they were found not far from the creek's northern edge, somewhere on RL's property between the cemetery and 575 W. No matter the place, he made them cross the creek, which the more I look at the map, the more makes sense because that's the only direction he could really have gone to get out of view.

If he had bad intentions when he set foot on the trail that day, I'd still lay my bets on him parking at the cemetery. JMO

I’m just trying to think of things learned by “the news” that would be false.

BBM

“[The videos] help us know that people don’t know [the true details], because the facts haven’t been released,” Holeman says. “People watch the news and think they are picking up on things, but it’s false. Nothing out there is accurate, which only leads to more false tips.”
Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana

 

[Cutiekitty]

All theories should be on the table until LE says otherwise.

My apologies, I should have clarified what I meant about the perp not counting on cloud data being available, I didn't intend to imply that the perp wasn't aware of cloud data. That was my mistake.

What I should have said is that not everyone has their phone set to back up their data to a cloud (including me when I had my purse and phone stolen and learned my lesson by losing over a years worth of family videos and photos.) If you are an individual who doesn't have their phone set to backup, you may assume that others don't as well.

JMO

Some app data is stored in a cloud. For ex: SC memories are stored in I guess you’d call it the SC cloud and if you have your account set to auto save snaps to memories they’d be saved in that cloud. It’s not the iCloud.

 

[TL4S]

It’s really not that far from the cemetery road to the edge of the water. It’s about .15 miles 241 feet or about a little over 1/2 a lap on a track. That is just a straight line though. I made a path from the end of the bridge going partway on the service road and across the creek at the sand bar to the estimated location of the scene and it was pretty much the same distance.

And this might be annoyingly nitpicky of me, but where the creek dips south, just southeast of the cemetery, the northern creek bank (well over 50 feet in) does not appear to belong to RL, which if the girls were literally found on his property, puts them either east or west of that dip, barely. It's hard to explain, but I don't know if Beacon photo snips are allowed through TOS.

Considering the statement about the girls being killed within minutes of the video (IIRC), I don't think BG walked them to the far east bank. Plus, once you get on RL's eastern creek access, the bank just doesn't look the same as in the crime scene photos (much more open, wider, sandy, and angled southeast). That's why I suspect (and could be WAY WRONG) they were near the creek directly south of the cemetery, which is about 600 ft from the cemetery.

 

[TL4S]

I’m just trying to think of things learned by “the news” that would be false.

BBM

“[The videos] help us know that people don’t know [the true details], because the facts haven’t been released,” Holeman says. “People watch the news and think they are picking up on things, but it’s false. Nothing out there is accurate, which only leads to more false tips.”
Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana

Do we know for a fact if they were found on RL's property? He has some 35+ acres, of course only a fraction of those are creek access. It's hard to separate fact from fiction!

 

[MistyWaters]

I personally think the "new strategy" is looking directly at the person who gave them the first sketch, or at least one of the people who corroborated the info that led to the first sketch. The perp would never believe LE changed their strategy bc he is (one of) the one(s) who shone the light on the first sketch, and thought he had power over the investigation, directing attn away from himself. MOO.

"What, precisely is the 'new strategy' they are using...? There's this sketch....but what else?
They also say they 'know' it's about power for him....why? & why would they say he would believe they would 'never' use a new strategy...?"

Strategy and new direction are interchangeable IMO.

Why would Carter say the suspect would believe they’d never use a new strategy? Good question and I’d say it’s because LE seemed very confident the first sketch was the prime suspect. Now that he’s not, I think some of the general public would even agree they didn’t believe LE would ever change their strategy either. That might come from the tendency to believe LE has only ever had their eyes on a person who looked similar right from the very beginning. For the murderer, thinking LE was seeking the wrong guy and they weren’t on to him would undoubtedly give him a feeling of power IMO.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I’m just trying to think of things learned by “the news” that would be false.

BBM

“[The videos] help us know that people don’t know [the true details], because the facts haven’t been released,” Holeman says. “People watch the news and think they are picking up on things, but it’s false. Nothing out there is accurate, which only leads to more false tips.”
Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana

So the area where the flashes are isn’t the crime scene?

 

[Cutiekitty]

Do we know for a fact if they were found on RL's property? He has some 35+ acres, of course only a fraction of those are creek access. It's hard to separate fact from fiction!

Dbm

 

[MistyWaters]

Do we know for a fact if they were found on RL's property? He has some 35+ acres, of course only a fraction of those are creek access. It's hard to separate fact from fiction!

I’m unable to find any other proof the bodies were found on RL’s property except his own interview with IE, pointing toward yellow police tape at the bottom of his property. In fact, I don’t recall LE ever mentioning one word connected to “on the other side of the river” or “crossing the river” or asking anyone for sightings of “a man who might have wet pant legs”. Maybe the girls were found somewhere along the river but on the same side as the bridge???

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Just listened to the PC, and read thru comments posted recently. In MOO from the beginning of this case I could not believe this was random....Someone just wandering in the woods that day was prepared to murder young girls, and just happened to luck out and find them.

I truly believe this guy knew these two girls and knew they were going there that day. That is why they took his photo walking up to them. Why else would they take a photo of some random person. There was no struggle when he told them to go down the hill, they believed he was just asking them to go that way perhaps to show them something.
This has always made me shutter to think they probably trusted this monster.
The PC seemed to elude to the fact that they believe they already interviewed him and he is part of the community and may have even been at the PC. They also said he would "not have believed they would have gone in another direction" which to me means LE thinks it is someone the girls knew--which they had not believed before.
Just my thoughts and I hope they get this guy very soon..he thinks he is so smart...we will see about that!

 

[Nerissa]

sometimes I think the idea of it all being about 'power' to the perp plays into whatever was done to Abby/Libby & the state they were left in...plus: cannot help but think the perp has perhaps been in touch with LE - in a taunting manner
It interesting to say it's about 'power' - ie, is LE saying that's the motive (which sounds pretty serial killer to me) ? - the motive to kill them was power, to get away with it....not sexual necessarily or any other average motive but 'power'
Hmmm
JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

So the area where the flashes are isn’t the crime scene?

I don’t recall LE ever identifying the location where the bodies were discovered. But the actual crime scene would consist of the entire area from when the girls were first approached (LE’s reference to “criminal activity”) to where they were later found.

“Investigators said the audio came from a video recording on Libby’s cell phone of a man who was apparently on or near the Monon High Bridge on the day the girls went missing and was taken during "criminal activity."....”
One Year Later: Why the Delphi case isn't cold

 

[Nerissa]

Just listened to the PC, and read thru comments posted recently. In MOO from the beginning of this case I could not believe this was random....Someone just wandering in the woods that day was prepared to murder young girls, and just happened to luck out and find them.

I truly believe this guy knew these two girls and knew they were going there that day. That is why they took his photo walking up to them. Why else would they take a photo of some random person. There was no struggle when he told them to go down the hill, they believed he was just asking them to go that way perhaps to show them something.
This has always made me shutter to think they probably trusted this monster.
The PC seemed to elude to the fact that they believe they already interviewed him and he is part of the community and may have even been at the PC. They also said he would "not have believed they would have gone in another direction" which to me means LE thinks it is someone the girls knew--which they had not believed before.
Just my thoughts and I hope they get this guy very soon..he thinks he is so smart...we will see about that!

Thanks - that's where my brain is headed, too......
edit to add that given this concept of 'power' ties into idea of someone connected to Libby's forensic classes.....someone playing games, using what's been learned in class to do this terrible crime....JMO
Hard for me to get outta my mind she was taking classes like this & then this is what happens. Bizarre. Or maybe not a coincidence...?

 

[Cutiekitty]

I don’t recall LE ever identifying the location where the bodies were discovered. But the actual crime scene would consist of the entire area from where the girls were first approached, assumably on the bridge, to where they were later found.

By crime scene I meant where they were found. The flashes seem to jive with the location at the end of the Melvin video which looks like where they were found.

I don’t want to know what the scene looked like and have no desire to know what exactly happened to them at the scene. LE needs to know - I do not.

I just want to settle whether they crossed the creek in my mind and I haven’t been able to do that. I was hoping if I could tell where things ended that would help. It did not.

 

[Cutiekitty]

And this might be annoyingly nitpicky of me, but where the creek dips south, just southeast of the cemetery, the northern creek bank (well over 50 feet in) does not appear to belong to RL, which if the girls were literally found on his property, puts them either east or west of that dip, barely. It's hard to explain, but I don't know if Beacon photo snips are allowed through TOS.

Considering the statement about the girls being killed within minutes of the video (IIRC), I don't think BG walked them to the far east bank. Plus, once you get on RL's eastern creek access, the bank just doesn't look the same as in the crime scene photos (much more open, wider, sandy, and angled southeast). That's why I suspect (and could be WAY WRONG) they were near the creek directly south of the cemetery, which is about 600 ft from the cemetery.

I see what you are saying and that’s actually what I was wondering about. My measurement was from the right corner of the creek to where Jethro guesstimated the crime scene tape was.

 

[somequestions]

Where did the killer park his vehicle?

If he parked at the Freedom Bridge area over the Hoosier Highway wouldn't he have been seen by the "flannel shirt guy" when he walked back to his vehicle?

If he parked at the area where Kelsi German dropped off Abby and Libby, wouldn't police have questioned Kelsi about any other vehicles that may have been parked in the parking lot that day?

If he parked at the cemetery, wouldn't his pants be wet from first crossing the creek to get to the Monon High Bridge? The picture on Liberty German's phone looks like the person is wearing dry blue jeans. I guess there is the possibility the killer could have parked at the cemetery, then walked down to the entrance where Abby and Libby were dropped to gain entrance to the trails.

So where the killer parked while he committed the crime is a very good question.

 

[MistyWaters]

LE’s earliest announcement -
“Two bodies have been found on the edge of Deer Creek near Delphi, and authorities said foul play is suspected.

During a press conference Tuesday afternoon, Sgt. Kim Riley announced two bodies were found a mile east of Delphi on the edge of Deer Creek around 12:15 p.m. Tuesday.”
Two bodies found outside Delphi; foul play suspected

 

[ZoriahNZ]

Somequestions: To your first question - not if he walked north from the crime scene (after the crime was committed), went through the cemetery, then west along the W 300 N road to the old CPS building. That way he would be avoiding any part of the trails which the Flannel Guy, Derrick German and other potential witnesses or searchers were walking. To me, that seems the most logical exit the BG could make, assuming he did park his car at the old CPS building like LE was hinting at and assuming he wanted to reduce the chance of encountering other people on the way back to his car.