Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #107

[Falling Down]

Has anyone ever figured out where BG is exactly on the bridge in Libby's video?

GH used the forked tree in the background, plus help from folks who went to the bridge two years ago, to get pretty much the exact location of BG in the images and video released by LE. Initially, we all thought Libby was on the bridge, but the camera angle(s) from the phone indicate she was slightly off of the bridge.

 

[Charlot123]

That's true. And it's hard to know what people are getting right and wrong. I guess part of what's bugged me since the very beginning of this is why BG would want to cross that creek. It just seems counterproductive in every way. Get wet, get cold, get muddy, be generally uncomfortable, leave footprints, keep two girls under control all the while. It just doesn't make sense.

Is there any scenario according to which the girls did not have to cross it but went back via the bridge?

It takes a lot of time to cross the water...

And if not crossing the bridge explains other findings better, then maybe this is what had happened.

I have Googled the temperature in Delphi, IN, during the night of Feb 14, 2017. Barely above zero. Very cold for wet clothes, I think the police would have been able to tell if they went into the water the previous night, or not.

More and more am I thinking that there was some pretext for them to cross the bridge back.

I don’t know what it was. I am thinking the killings were not random, but perhaps he was stalking them and knew what to say?

 

[Krwiley60]

Perhaps ligature was the white loop seen below his neck.

This is one of the few pictures of BG that I always go back to. I don’t see any facial hair or hat. The colors are not totally accurate as you can see, but makes what is under his chin more visible. I do see a much younger BG. Possibly late 20’s, early 30’s

ETA: It looks like he may be carrying a club or baseball bat over his left shoulder.

 

[cody22]

Even more so, losing or gaining weight

Or baldness over the last 2+ years.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Yes but how many male HS pupils would she have added? Not many IMO. The age of the perp has come down to under 18 so he could be a HS pupil IMO. (age 18-40 but could be younger than he appears)

She probably had a lot TBH. It’s a small town and I’m sure the kids all know each other at least by sight. Plus, she may have known HS kids through her sister or her friend’s siblings. She had a lot of FB friends so I’m sure she had a lot of SC “friends”. It’s kind of a thing to amass a lot of friends/followers which aren’t necessarily going to be true friends or people you speak to every day.

Edit- typo

 

[Cutiekitty]

Carter said somewhere between the two sketches, IIRC.

If he’s started drinking or doing drugs it’s going to age him even if he’s at the younger end of the age range. Maybe that is what they are getting at.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Hi all, newbie here. Been looking at the video that was put out over and over again, pausing it and looking at the stills. I had to put the first sketch from my head as all I could think was hat hat hat. Now in the stills I see him, the new sketch. On the left picture I think the hood of his hoody has blown down and to me shows a Justin Bieber type haircut which is browny blond, a cleanshaven face that looks young with quite a thick jawline. I think his big belly is either weapons, rope maybe and he appears to be holding it up. The unsteady gait is the unkempt bridge but maybe he had a few beers? Have a look and please.. .be gentle with me. Good on you all for fighting for justice for these two beautiful girls. Never forget.

I see the beiber haircut too and maybe a cowlick on the back of his head.

 

[MistyWaters]

If he’s started drinking or doing drugs it’s going to age him even if he’s at the younger end of the age range. Maybe that is what they are getting at.

I think after the PC when Carter announced the sketch was The Face of the suspect that went with the body somebody reminded him the FBI sketch artist who was also interviewed by the media offered no such high assurance of total accuracy. So IMO Carter was forced to sidestep his earlier declaration.

 

[Charlot123]

This is one of the few pictures of BG that I always go back to. I don’t see any facial hair or hat. The colors are not totally accurate as you can see, but makes what is under his chin more visible. I do see a much younger BG. Possibly late 20’s, early 30’s

ETA: It looks like he may be carrying a club or baseball bat over his left shoulder.

You know what he could be wearing?

A version of Groucho glasses minus the glasses and with white mustache.

Groucho glasses - Wikipedia

They are sold in many Xmas stores. It is part of Santa’s outfit but without the beard. Red nose, mustache. Sometimes sideburns. I used to have such as a kid.

And then, a scarf.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Interesting. This is my recollect on the SC, for what it’s worth —

It was not LE who released the SC photo of Abby or the other one on the bridge. It was the media who apparently discovered the photos posted on “a friend’s” FB. After it was published by the media I admit I wondered if that was how both LE and the families first became aware of the photos existence. The media then began to run with the “SC murders” although they’ve since matured their line of reporting by referring to the victims by name.

The reason I’ve always had the thought it was a friend who was the source of the SC may well be due to the post you discovered.

Another unanswered questions - as it’s oft reported, the SC photo was sent at 2:07pm but we don’t know what time it was taken. This is one reason why knowing an exact timeline would be helpful as there’s quite a range between various mentioned arrival times, appx 1pm to 1:45pm. If the photo was originally taken, at say 1:40 or 1:50pm I’d say it’s quite doubtful the girls remained on the bridge deck the entire time, until 2:30pm (?) video of the suspect.

YES!

It was posted as soon as she took it. We just don’t know when it was taken. It had to have been taken/posted sometime between 1:06 and 2:07. I’d guess that the went straight to the bridge after being dropped off so soon after that. The drop off times are all between 1:35 and 1:45.

 

[Thelastleg]

Not to harp on this idea of the girls crossing the creek by choice and BG going back across the bridge and meeting up with them on the north side of the creek, but I did measuring on a map. If the girls went pretty much straight across the creek and toward the cemetery, and BG crossed back until he could get off the bridge and headed toward the girls, he only had about 900 feet further to walk. If the girls headed towards the trail once across the creek, it would be even less for BG to catch up to them. And I think without leaves on the trees, he really probably could see them (or hear them). Walking 1000 feet would easily still fit into that "minutes" time frame LE has given. JMOMOOIMO...

If LE is truthful about the reenactments being wrong, than we're missing something. This could explain it, but it also opens others questions, like why the crime scene tape at the end of the bridge? Why not go to Abby's? Why not call somebody? IMO, I can come up with answers to those questions, but it's all guessing.

I think about what a 13 and 14 year old girl might think to do in a situation where they are scared and alone. I'd guess they would want to get to where there are people. The trail, the road (N 300 W), the person waiting for them at the trailhead. JMO

Im confused about where Libby's father had arranged to pick them up. Was it on the side of the creek that they were found near the cemetery? Is part of the trail on that side of the bridge too. I keep thinking that they seem to have doubled back on themselves. If it was close to the time that they were to be picked up and they were still on the bridge or in the area how long would it have taken to get to the pick up point? I'm trying to picture the bridge and your theory I think it's very possible that he watched them trying to get to safety but headed them off when they crossed the creek.

 

[TL4S]

GH used the forked tree in the background, plus help from folks who went to the bridge two years ago, to get pretty much the exact location of BG in the images and video released by LE. Initially, we all thought Libby was on the bridge, but the camera angle(s) from the phone indicate she was slightly off of the bridge.

Thank you!

 

[TL4S]

GH refers to them as platforms. Yes according to his analysis of the tree branches and markings on the ties, a platform can be seen just to the right of the suspect.

Thank you!

 

[Cutiekitty]

I think after the PC when Carter announced the sketch was The Face of the suspect that went with the body somebody reminded him the FBI sketch artist who was also interviewed by the media offered no such high assurance of total accuracy. So IMO Carter was forced to sidestep his earlier declaration.

He said something about BG being between the sketches too during the WISH interview. I don’t think BG will look exactly like the sketch, but will have some similarities.

 

[JnRyan]

Maybe it wasn't BG's idea to cross that creek.

It is possible that the girls ran into the creek hoping to escape him.

One of my possible scenarios.

 

[TL4S]

Im confused about where Libby's father had arranged to pick them up. Was it on the side of the creek that they were found near the cemetery? Is part of the trail on that side of the bridge too. I keep thinking that they seem to have doubled back on themselves. If it was close to the time that they were to be picked up and they were still on the bridge or in the area how long would it have taken to get to the pick up point? I'm trying to picture the bridge and your theory I think it's very possible that he watched them trying to get to safety but headed them off when they crossed the creek.

That is close to what I am saying. We know BG crossed to bridge up to a certain point. What he did after that point in the video, we don't know...until he said "down the hill," and at some point later killed the girls.

LE has told us the girls crossed the creek, so we know that. I'm also not sure where Libby's father was set to pick them up. I guess I've assumed at the same spot the sister dropped them off. I think if they had crossed the bridge, turned straight around and gone back the same way, maybe the timing was right? Not sure.

But at the moment, I'm putting a lot of thought into him cutting them off from the north after they crossed the creek. It does make more sense from BG's perspective than he himself crossing the creek. I am probably thinking beyond rational, though. It doesn't feel like a popular theory.

 

[Mimi in London]

This is one of the few pictures of BG that I always go back to. I don’t see any facial hair or hat. The colors are not totally accurate as you can see, but makes what is under his chin more visible. I do see a much younger BG. Possibly late 20’s, early 30’s

ETA: It looks like he may be carrying a club or baseball bat over his left shoulder.

Seeing this picture, I can see a really very young man for the first time. And yes, a bat too.

 

[TL4S]

This is one of the few pictures of BG that I always go back to. I don’t see any facial hair or hat. The colors are not totally accurate as you can see, but makes what is under his chin more visible. I do see a much younger BG. Possibly late 20’s, early 30’s

ETA: It looks like he may be carrying a club or baseball bat over his left shoulder.

I see a blob with a sloth sticking out of his jacket.

ETA: I am not good with determining anything from the pictures/video. I wish I was.

 

[TL4S]

GH used the forked tree in the background, plus help from folks who went to the bridge two years ago, to get pretty much the exact location of BG in the images and video released by LE. Initially, we all thought Libby was on the bridge, but the camera angle(s) from the phone indicate she was slightly off of the bridge.

So he was only like 80 or 90 feet from them? I wonder when they had their conversation about not having anywhere to go. How long had they watched him crossing the bridge? Hmm...

 

[MJPeony]

So sorry- can someone direct me to the transcript of LE saying the girls definitely crossed the creek? (The video posted a couple pages back is not syncing up for me.).

I checked for a while in the media thread but my tired brain has given up after searching multiple pages. TIA.