Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #107

[Cutiekitty]

But nobody was missing at 2:07. I’ll listen to it again because I thought it sounded as if she received it directly.

That’s why the time is so weird to me. Either they are just doing the math and coming up with the time or someone noted they saw the pic at that time when the girls weren’t missing.

I suppose someone could’ve screen shotted the pic immediately after it was posted. The pic would’ve said posted right now instead of 7 hours ago though. Maybe the pic that’s out there was just screen shotted by another person. Who knows?

I believe she had more than 1 SC account. I want to say she posted a SC “handle” to her twitter and a different one to her Instagram. Doesn’t mean she used both, but I swear I saw 2.

 

[TL4S]

That’s why the time is so weird to me. Either they are just doing the math and coming up with the time or someone noted they saw the pic at that time when the girls weren’t missing.

I suppose someone could’ve screen shotted the pic immediately after it was posted. The pic would’ve said posted right now instead of 7 hours ago though. Maybe the pic that’s out there was just screen shotted by another person. Who knows?

I believe she had more than 1 SC account. I want to say she posted a SC “handle” to her twitter and a different one to her Instagram. Doesn’t mean she used both, but I swear I saw 2.

I am not familiar with SC, so I appreciate your explanations. Are people alerted to new posts? If someone sees the picture come in, can they reply in any way that would be time stamped?

I still wonder if KG, or one of Libby's friends saw it come in and then texted Libby back immediately. That text could have been at 2:07 as referral.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Perhaps she saved the two bridge pics. They were good pics. That would explain how she had a timestamp.

True. The pic was posted to LGs story which means anyone she added could see it. That would mean the pic being circulated by the media with the 7 hours ago stamp was just screen shotted by someone else.

KGs pic would’ve said posted just now or have the seconds or minutes to come up with the precise time if she took a screen shot of it which is the only was to get the precise time. There is not going to be a timestamp saying 2:07 - doesn’t look like she used the time filter. KG could’ve told the person that posted the screen screen shot on FB the time it was posted.

TBH my gut says that is not what happened. I think people saw the pic with x amount of hours ago and tried to figure out when it was posted. The time is important for LE’s timeline and I’m sure they obtained the actual post time from SC. I haven’t seen where LE has verified or denied that the time is correct.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I am not familiar with SC, so I appreciate your explanations. Are people alerted to new posts? If someone sees the picture come in, can they reply in any way that would be time stamped?

I still wonder if KG, or one of Libby's friends saw it come in and then texted Libby back immediately. That text could have been at 2:07 as referral.

The way mine is set up I just see a red number on the app icon if one of my friends posts something to their story - kind of like when you get a text or missed call. It doesn’t say so and so posted something new.

If a friend texted back and noted the time they would’ve had to have shared that info with the FB poster or actually be the FB poster. The FB poster put the time on their post.

 

[JudgeJudi]

James Renner’s interview with Anna Williams

She had heard rumours that Abby had a boyfriend from a different school. She was on Facebook but had blocked her mother as she wasn’t supposed to have it.

Abby had been to the bridge with her family (grandparents and Anna’s younger sisters) in about 2012. She’d also been swimming in the river where there’s a sandy area when she was about 6 or 7. To get there you had to walk down a hill. She had also gone fishing in the area.

Abby had never walked across the bridge and Anna would never have allowed it. She was “livid” when she heard that Abby had crossed it on Feb. 13 and said Abby would be grounded once she was back home.

When asked who found the SC photo, Anna said “Becky got it or somebody else had seen it” (her SC followers). Anna and a male friend went to the bridge after the murders but she couldn’t get past the third railroad tie as her stomach was clenching and she had trouble breathing. Her friend said, “It’s not that bad. There’s only one railroad tie missing”, but it was just too much for her.

This is one of those ridiculous 360 degree videos. You can use your finger to rotate the picture so that you only see Anna.

 

[sunshineray]

I think it may. Not hearing an accent any different than anyone from the Indiana area would have (like it’s not Jersey, Southern, British, West Coast, etc).

Remember, there is a shift in thinking on the crime after the April presser. I’ve gone back and tried to read between the lines (the investigators have a new direction).

It’s now almost July.

It’s also possible they have an idea of the UNSUB, but lack evidence. Remember, not only do they have to have the guy figured out, they have to have the evidence to stand up in trial.

The rule out of other possibilities, or lack of attention to other crimes, the LE may have an outside in look on the UNSUB but need direct evidence to get the inside details.

That could have been what Carter was pleading for- the last piece of evidence to bring BG in, if he isn't already in jail. Hope that’s what at it as least. IMO.

First words family have said publicly since the April press conference and the new photo and strategy announced.

"...Two months ago, state police released a brand new sketch of their killer, along with video and an extended audio clip.

"Surprise and all of those other emotions that swell within us," said Eric, Abby's grandfather. "We also feel confident that they are doing their job."

Libby's grandfather, Mike Patty, felt the same way.

"It is still the same direction," Patty said. "We are still trying to catch a killer."
Family of Delphi murder victims speak out for first time since release of new evidence

 

[raja]

If BG followed the girls from the beginning of the trail how would he know they were going to cross the bridge? I would assume most people do not cross that bridge. Ambushing someone at the start of the bridge would have gotten him to the kill site without crossing the creek. Maybe he was surprised that they began to cross the bridge. This put a crimp in his plan and things went badly and the girls were killed. He may not had been planning to murder that day.

 

[Boxer]

i

If BG followed the girls from the beginning of the trail how would he know they were going to cross the bridge? I would assume most people do not cross that bridge. Ambushing someone at the start of the bridge would have gotten him to the kill site without crossing the creek. Maybe he was surprised that they began to cross the bridge. This put a crimp in his plan and things went badly and the girls were killed. He may not had been planning to murder that day.

MOO that makes sense to me. Following them and planning to force them further along the informal trail to the back of the cemetery. Then he waited and they ambled and then...did not come back across the bridge, maybe they were waiting for him to cross? He got impatient went across and forced them across the creek to maintain his original plan.

MOO if it happened that way, add that he can't let go of a plan once it is in motion to a model of his personality.

 

[tresir2012]

As you understand how SC works, maybe have a listen to the podcast. It sounded to me KG was saying she knew she received the SC from Libby at 2:07.

I heard it a while back actually. The SC pic was posted to LGs story and that’s how KG saw it. It wasn’t sent directly to her. If she saw it at 2:07, noted that specific time, and remembered it in the midst of looking for her missing sister I’d find that very odd.

Perhaps she saved the two bridge pics. They were good pics. That would explain how she had a timestamp.

KG must have seen it immediately LG posted it at 2.07 before the girls went missing. That is obviously where the last seen timestamp must have come from. The pic released by media was not released until after 9 p.m. because that had the 7 hours on it. Are you still doubting that time? That fits with KG dropping them off at 1.38 p.m.
The other pic of the empty bridge was just as the girls got on it so that would have an earlier time IMO, which had never been mentioned AFAIK. So what is your opinion of the 2.07 time? Do you still think it's wrong? Too early, too late?
What were Kelsie's exact words in the transcript? I haven't listened to it so far and am going by everyone's interpretations but it looks like that could be different. Have LE given a last seen time?

 

[Cutiekitty]

KG must have seen it immediately LG posted it at 2.07 before the girls went missing. That is obviously where the last seen timestamp must have come from. The pic released by media was not released until after 9 p.m. because that had the 7 hours on it. Are you still doubting that time? That fits with KG dropping them off at 1.38 p.m.
The other pic of the empty bridge was just as the girls got on it so that would have an earlier time IMO, which had never been mentioned AFAIK. So what is your opinion of the 2.07 time? Do you still think it's wrong? Too early, too late?
What were Kelsie's exact words in the transcript? I haven't listened to it so far and am going by everyone's interpretations but it looks like that could be different. Have LE given a last seen time?

I still don’t think 2:07 is correct.

In the interview KG says she was at work and had to leave to go to the police station to tell them what she remembered. This was around 6pm. She says she did not receive the SC directly and that it was posted to LG’s story. She says she showed LE the posts during this interview and says it was about 2:07.

The only way she could know the post time is if she saw it when posted and either remembered the exact time or screen shotted it. Based on the fact that she was showing LE the story I’m guessing that she did not screen shot the post. Remembering the exact post time would be very weird to me. Why would she remember and note that?

The pics would’ve said posted 4 hours ago at this point BTW. They would not have a precise post time.

 

[JnRyan]

I still don’t think 2:07 is correct.

In the interview KG says she was at work and had to leave to go to the police station to tell them what she remembered. This was around 6pm. She says she did not receive the SC directly and that it was posted to LG’s story. She says she showed LE the posts during this interview and says it was about 2:07.

The only way she could know the post time is if she saw it when posted and either remembered the exact time or screen shotted it. Based on the fact that she was showing LE the story I’m guessing that she did not screen shot the post. Remembering the exact post time would be very weird to me. Why would she remember and note that?

The pics would’ve said posted 4 hours ago at this point BTW. They would not have a precise post time.

Good question. Was 2:07 the time it was posted to snapchat? Or was it the time the photo was taken? Almost all cell phones have metadata embedded IN the photo itself. Unless the user disables this feature and most users do not. Primarily because a lot of users don't know about it. If Liberty had not disabled the feature then LE would likely know when the photo was actually taken adding to the timeline of that day.
https://www.howtogeek.com/354802/how-to-view-exif-metadata-for-photos-on-an-iphone-or-ipad/

 

[Cutiekitty]

Good question. Was 2:07 the time it was posted to snapchat? Or was it the time the photo was taken? Almost all cell phones have metadata embedded IN the photo itself. Unless the user disables this feature and most users do not. Primarily because a lot of users don't know about it. If Liberty had not disabled the feature then LE would likely know when the photo was actually taken adding to the timeline of that day.
https://www.howtogeek.com/354802/how-to-view-exif-metadata-for-photos-on-an-iphone-or-ipad/

The photo was taken via Snapchat not with the camera on the phone then uploaded. I believe SC removes a lot of the exif data to reduce file size. SC should still have the actual post time though and that would be something that LE would have obtained.

 

[JnRyan]

The photo was taken via Snapchat not with the camera on the phone then uploaded. I believe SC removes a lot of the exif data to reduce file size. SC should still have the actual post time though and that would be something that LE would have obtained.

So the 'Snap History' file doesn't have the recipient, sender and date/time?

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family

This would seem to indicate ,imo, that the audio was running for a period before the situation became threatening? If the Girls were just ' talking about what girls talk about' and then noticed the 'Man'? Why record their conversation when not in any danger?

ETA ' Just trying to think how much audio is recorded and what it may cover'

 

[Krwiley60]

DBM

 

[Cutiekitty]

So the 'Snap History' file doesn't have the recipient, sender and date/time?

I don’t see that as an option on my phone.

You can obtain the a data file from SC which should have that info. Just requested mine and will update on what I got back - no specifics, just general info. Just sent the request and I’m waiting on the email from SC.

Edit: hopefully a real email was set up to create the account. I suppose LE could just go in and change the email though if they have her password.

 

[Ellie1]

The ID "Still a Mystery" Down the Hill episode specifies the 2:07pm time of the Snapchat photo. It doesn't specify where they got that info from, but it does state it.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Snapchat history update - just got my info! They sent a zip file that I had to open via my icloud account.

The info was from June 1st through the present. I saw history about the snaps To/from individuals - time, date, person I sent to or received from. I did not see anything that I’ve posted to my story and I did post to my story in June.

Never looked at my data in this way so perhaps I’m not clicking the correct hyperlink (you’d think snap history would contain, well, all snap history).

No content or photos were provided.

 

[MistyWaters]

I still don’t think 2:07 is correct.

In the interview KG says she was at work and had to leave to go to the police station to tell them what she remembered. This was around 6pm. She says she did not receive the SC directly and that it was posted to LG’s story. She says she showed LE the posts during this interview and says it was about 2:07.

The only way she could know the post time is if she saw it when posted and either remembered the exact time or screen shotted it. Based on the fact that she was showing LE the story I’m guessing that she did not screen shot the post. Remembering the exact post time would be very weird to me. Why would she remember and note that?

The pics would’ve said posted 4 hours ago at this point BTW. They would not have a precise post time.

The topic of the SC begins just after 16:30. After the girls were reported missing I don’t think it’s weird at all for LE to seek to determine the last time there was any SM type of communication by Libby. Is it possible KG and Libby shared SC? Because KG says she was able to access Libby’s SC story in order to view the timestamp.
2: The Delphi Murders from Infamous Indy

KG - (talking about visit to police station, was called about 6pm) She posted them directly to her story so whether or not she sent them to someone is really hard to tell. (goes on to mention that’s how she was able to determine the time stamp @ 2:07)
Q - but they were there? You were actually able to look?
KG - uh huh (affirmative)
Q - do you have that phone now?
KG - No, I have a different phone now.
Q - so it was an iPhone though and you were able to see quickly?
KG - yes.

 

[tresir2012]

I still don’t think 2:07 is correct.

In the interview KG says she was at work and had to leave to go to the police station to tell them what she remembered. This was around 6pm. She says she did not receive the SC directly and that it was posted to LG’s story. She says she showed LE the posts during this interview and says it was about 2:07.

The only way she could know the post time is if she saw it when posted and either remembered the exact time or screen shotted it. Based on the fact that she was showing LE the story I’m guessing that she did not screen shot the post. Remembering the exact post time would be very weird to me. Why would she remember and note that?

The pics would’ve said posted 4 hours ago at this point BTW. They would not have a precise post time.

She must have texted or liked it to have such an exact time. As you say it is not possible for her to have exactly remembered that 4 hours later. Libby did have Instagram with a lot of her photos on it because I remember looking at it for some time after the murders and people were posting condolence messages . I don't remember when it became unavailable and I don't remember if the bridge pics were on there. In the absence of any other time we have to go with that. There may have been a last seen time on the very first posters issuedd and I'm sure LE could have got the time directly from SC. They would take about 5 mins to walk the bridge and maybe 10 to get there from the drop off so 20 minutes is a good estimate, which would be almost 2 p.m. plus 5 or so minutes dawdling or getting up courage to cross. MOO