Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[Daisyeve]

Yep, I agree. Having lived both in the South and in the North...the only person I think we can rule out is someone who grew up in the South or the far Northeast. Southerners never say "Guys" - always, "Y'all" and true Yankees say "Youse Guys" or even "You-ens"... . So Indiana is midwestern so I am guessing Guys is pretty common practice. In the audio, there is no distinct southern drawl or northern "Mennisoda" accent. This guy is probably local within a state's radius.

I am a true southerner and most of us say you guys!! We also use ya’ll and I hear that all over the country now.

 

[TL4S]

Because of the use of "would" I am doubtful. If he wanted to convey that they did actually cross the creek he would have used the past tense (notice how I say he "would have used" in the same way?)
The interviewer posed the question as a hypothetical question. Would it have been difficult.....?

So I believe, if it had happened , the exchange would have been like this, (notice I use "would have been" for the hypothetical again)

A. I mean, WAS it difficult for the girls to (go) from where they were on the bridge to where they were found?

H: Yeah. Absolutely. I think it WAS difficult, obviously. They have to go through some pretty steep terrain in a wooded area, sticker bushes and things like that, so it's uh ... and then to cross the creek. The creek, and obviously it's February, it's probably not the warmest . The weather was a warm day that day, but still the water temperature is probably cooler than the air temperature. So yeah, it WAS difficult for ....

If just the three WAS words above replace the "would have been" and "would be" then the whole thing then becomes certain. If the reporter had just asked, "Did they cross the creek" we know what he would have answered right? Integrity, blah blah etc.

MOO

If she would have had to pose the question as a hypothetical, then he likely would have had to answer it in the same tone, IMO. Maybe he can't say "was" because than it's definite, disputable, and probably not in the best interest of the case? I'm guessing. But yeah, I do see what you're saying. It's hard to tell. I truly can read it both ways.

 

[HockeyMom330]

I know. That comment makes me rethink everything. I haven't seen all the reenactments, either, so I'm always wondering what's wrong.

One of the renactments I've seen seems to place Libby off the end of the bridge and to the side, but have Abby still on the bridge as BG comes up behind her. Even though one of the photo images appears to have a dark spot that many believe is Abby's sleeve, I've always thought that was wrong for three reasons. One is that its been said that these girls would not leave each other's side, so why would Libby be a distance ahead of Abby? Would it not be more logical to envision the girls waking in close proximity so they could talk with each other? A second reason is that the BG recording is said to be around 2:30pm. But the girls were almost halfway across the bridge at 2:07pm, so if these times are even close to being accurate there was plenty of time for them both to make it to the other side. Finally, L&A were recorded discussing that 'the trail ends here, there is nowhere to go' which makes me think that they were both off the end of the bridge as they saw him coming. It could just be one small detail of the reenactment that is not correct.

 

[mtnlites]

Yep, I agree. Having lived both in the South and in the North...the only person I think we can rule out is someone who grew up in the South or the far Northeast. Southerners never say "Guys" - always, "Y'all" and true Yankees say "Youse Guys" or even "You-ens"... . So Indiana is midwestern so I am guessing Guys is pretty common practice. In the audio, there is no distinct southern drawl or northern "Mennisoda" accent. This guy is probably local within a state's radius.

Southerner here and most everyone I know uses "guys."

 

[NameUser]

One of the renactments I've seen seems to place Libby off the end of the bridge and to the side, but have Abby still on the bridge as BG comes up behind her. Even though one of the photo images appears to have a dark spot that many believe is Abby's sleeve, I've always thought that was wrong for three reasons. One is that its been said that these girls would not leave each other's side, so why would Libby be a distance ahead of Abby? Would it not be more logical to envision the girls waking in close proximity so they could talk with each other? A second reason is that the BG recording is said to be around 2:30pm. But the girls were almost halfway across the bridge at 2:07pm, so if these times are even close to being accurate there was plenty of time for them both to make it to the other side. Finally, L&A were recorded discussing that 'the trail ends here, there is nowhere to go' which makes me think that they were both off the end of the bridge as they saw him coming. It could just be one small detail of the reenactment that is not correct.

Where did you find the recording discussing "the trail ends here" This is new info to me and I would like to investigate further!

 

[mtnlites]

I am a true southerner and most of us say you guys!! We also use ya’ll and I hear that all over the country now.

Same. My undergrad degree focused on lingustics, and using such a popular word as "guys" would not be used to id region in a professional sense. It is far too common of a word. 30 years ago, maybe, but with thousands of TV channels, the internet, and globalization in general, language has spread far and wide. "Guys" is not considered dialect. Anyone with kids can probably hear YouTubers opening their videos with "hey guys" in their sleep. And you are right about "y'all"; I now hear it as much from non Southerners as I do from my local peeps (who now use it more out of irony than habit).

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Where did you find the recording discussing "the trail ends here" This is new info to me and I would like to investigate further!

It was on the show, “Down the Hill, Still A Mystery” on the ID channel.

Still A Mystery | Watch Full Episodes & More! - Investigation Discovery

 

[HockeyMom330]

It was on the show, “Down the Hill, Still A Mystery” on the ID channel.

Still A Mystery | Watch Full Episodes & More! - Investigation Discovery

One thing I found intersting, besides learing about the comment itself, was that AW couldn't discern if the girls sounded scared when they said it, or if it was just casual conversation. Was it ever determined if the girls made this comment about the trail before or after they encountered BG?

 

[NameUser]

It was on the show, “Down the Hill, Still A Mystery” on the ID channel.

Still A Mystery | Watch Full Episodes & More! - Investigation Discovery

Gonna watch now - Thanks!!

 

[SheriBerry]

Ditto for the same reasons you stated except I’d add - It would actually be easier to get to the scene from the cemetery (no creek crossing needed). It’s a straight shot “down a hill”.

Some reports make it seem desolate, but RL stated his kids used to play there so it was an area that at least some people were recreationally familiar with. In a couple of videos I’ve seen you can actually see paths, but I’m not sure if those were made after the crime due to nosy people or if they’ve always kind of been there.

Would be fantastic to get some input from a local regarding the obscurity vs popularity of this particular area.

Edit: I mean the crime scene area not the trails.

The cemetery is almost a straight shot to the crime scene area and like you said down a hill. However the whole area is hilly. The “down the hill” could have literally been said anywhere. When I was there, there was a well worn path with a “no trespassing” sign that lead into the woods and down to where the girls were found. So I’m guessing RL had issues with people trespassing prior. This was mid April 2017 and there were still LE spotlights set up at the edge of the back of the cemetery facing into the woods so this was a main area of focus by LE.
I’m 60 miles south of Delphi. GPS took me to the park in town. Made 3 or 4 wrong turns even after asking for directions. IMO if you don’t know exactly where this park is you aren’t going to stumble upon it.

 

[scruffydog]

or he had an accomplice who did not get recorded. MOO.

I have sometimes wondered about that. Maybe an accomplice was “down the hill”....

 

[SheriBerry]

Based on the tone of the April presser, which in my opinion DC was speaking directly to the killer, I feel confident that LE have his name at or near the top of their suspect pool. It seems they are missing some crucial information needed to make an arrest.

I think LE knows who it is also. I have a gut feeling that the stopper is he has a spouse giving him a false alibi. IMO.

 

[rainwaterstill]

I personally think they do and are having problems joining all the dots.

Personal opinion only. They have most the pieces to the jigsaw puzzle but are having problems fitting it together to make the whole picture. That is why they continue to look for the one or two missing pieces .

But that is just me and they way I think.

MingyMoo

MOO, MOO,MOO-I believe the reason they are having trouble connecting all the dots is that someone has given LE a false alibi for the perpetrator (s), and that LE suspects or knows it is a false alibi but cannot prove conclusively that the alibi is fake.

IF a fake alibi is part of this, I hope the person providing the fake alibi will also face charges of being an accessory after the fact. MOO again.

 

[Spartygirl]

I was there in April of 2017 and the entrance across from Mears is where I parked and entered the trail. Has it recently been closed?

Yes, we were there last year, 2018 and it is closed

 

[rosesfromangels]

MOO, MOO,MOO-I believe the reason they are having trouble connecting all the dots is that someone has given LE a false alibi for the perpetrator (s), and that LE suspects or knows it is a false alibi but cannot prove conclusively that the alibi is fake.

IF a fake alibi is part of this, I hope the person providing the fake alibi will also face charges of being an accessory after the fact. MOO again.

This is very possible. It is also possible that someone just hasn't spoken up. They know who it is, or feel it in their gut, but are afraid.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[TTF14]

MOO, MOO,MOO-I believe the reason they are having trouble connecting all the dots is that someone has given LE a false alibi for the perpetrator (s), and that LE suspects or knows it is a false alibi but cannot prove conclusively that the alibi is fake.

IF a fake alibi is part of this, I hope the person providing the fake alibi will also face charges of being an accessory after the fact. MOO again.

This is on the top of my list as well. But if this is the case, I don't know why they wouldn't have appealed to alibi-givers at the weird press conference.

 

[JnRyan]

As a Connecticut Yankee I can say the Youse Guys is really a NYC thing and I've never heard You-ens. We say Y'all a lot but its not drawled out so reall it's a You all. I've heard Guys used a lot between friends or authority figures talking to a group.

Having grown up in the south and midwest with some time in NJ, I heard 'youse guys' frequently in northern NJ, but not Jersey shore. I had never heard 'you-ens' till I worked with someone from Pittsburgh. (Western PA, upstate NY thing? I don't know.) 'Ya'll' was something people from NJ, New England and CA were surprised to hear because they didn't believe southerners actually talked like that when they heard me talk. 'Ya'll' is something I've heard all across the south and into central MO, eastern MD and even the southern part of IN.

 

[Cutiekitty]

The cemetery is almost a straight shot to the crime scene area and like you said down a hill. However the whole area is hilly. The “down the hill” could have literally been said anywhere. When I was there, there was a well worn path with a “no trespassing” sign that lead into the woods and down to where the girls were found. So I’m guessing RL had issues with people trespassing prior. This was mid April 2017 and there were still LE spotlights set up at the edge of the back of the cemetery facing into the woods so this was a main area of focus by LE.
I’m 60 miles south of Delphi. GPS took me to the park in town. Made 3 or 4 wrong turns even after asking for directions. IMO if you don’t know exactly where this park is you aren’t going to stumble upon it.

Interesting post for many reasons. Thanks for sharing your real world observations! I’m stuck with google earth and photos which really don’t give the best perspective.

 

[mtnlites]

The cemetery is almost a straight shot to the crime scene area and like you said down a hill. However the whole area is hilly. The “down the hill” could have literally been said anywhere. When I was there, there was a well worn path with a “no trespassing” sign that lead into the woods and down to where the girls were found. So I’m guessing RL had issues with people trespassing prior. This was mid April 2017 and there were still LE spotlights set up at the edge of the back of the cemetery facing into the woods so this was a main area of focus by LE.
I’m 60 miles south of Delphi. GPS took me to the park in town. Made 3 or 4 wrong turns even after asking for directions. IMO if you don’t know exactly where this park is you aren’t going to stumble upon it.

It's a popular place but even people in Delphi have never been and some that have been couldn't give directions. I couldn't. @Falling Down could give you better directions than I and he's only been there once. And yes, that's what I've been saying about the hills-the whole place is a bunch of hills. Both ends of the bridge have hills, the cemetery has a hill, it's an incline going down to the creek, etc.

 

[mtnlites]

This is very possible. It is also possible that someone just hasn't spoken up. They know who it is, or feel it in their gut, but are afraid.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I wonder if someone has recognized him, but doesn't think it's really him. I was thinking about the farmer who lives on the farm next to me. He's in his 60s, wears glasses, has long gray hair, etc. Great guy. He's become an adopted grandpa for the kids. If LE released a sketch of a killer who resembled him, I'd just laugh. We might joke about how "ha ha, that looks like ___" but I'd never dream that it was actually him.