Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[ab01]

So how many/which witnesses have seen BG that we know of?

We know of the atleast two that contributed to the sketches for certain

atleast 1 per each sketch if IIRC

Now whether the persons that they were describing to the sketch artist is actually BG, Well that's another question all together

 

[Justice101]

And like I said previously, he got lucky:

Lucky, as in:
1) Lucky it was a regular work day. Ever been on a trail during the week versus the weekend? It's a ghost town during the week. Not near as many people out on the trail. Girls were out of school by chance.
2) Lucky to hit the "perfect location" to confront, abduct. murder where nobody would be within half a mile, and then easy to escape from. (this part was not necessarily pure luck.. but the guy knew the area well and may have fantasized about this before).
3) Lucky that the girls were alone and not without an adult or a third person.
4) Lucky if LE have already identified him and have talked to him as to his whereabouts that day: Lucky that he has a credible alibi (at least for now).
5) Lucky the frame grab from the video is blurry. Not clear enough for positive ID by LE or by friends/relatives.
6) Lucky the audio recording that was made was only short in length....or had so much noise from leaves/wind rustling in the background that you can't hear what is being said.

But Buddy, YOUR LUCK IS GOING TO RUN OUT!

 

[MistyWaters]

So how many/which witnesses have seen BG that we know of?

I don’t think we’ll ever know the answer to that until an arrest and a trial occurs.

In the meantime it seems to me this question falls under the category of Carter’s statement to the killer “you want to know what we know”.

I know if I were a witness capable of offering incriminating evidence to convict a suspect of double homicide I sure wouldn’t want my identity known publicly beforehand. Who would?

 

[TL4S]

We know of the two that contributed to the sketches for certain

1 per each sketch if IIRC

Now whether the persons that they were describing to the sketch artist is actually BG, Well that's another question all together

Yeah, like if a guy who looks kind of like the YBG sketch was on the trail that day getting high, he maybe doesn't want to come forward as the guy the witness saw because, well, he doesn't want trouble with the law.

 

[ab01]

I don’t think we’ll ever know the answer to that until an arrest and a trial occurs.

In the meantime it seems to me this question falls under the category of Carter’s statement to the killer “you want to know what we know”.

I know if I were a witness capable of offering incriminating evidence to convict a suspect of double homicide I sure wouldn’t want my identity known publicly beforehand. Who would?

Agreed and even if we did know we can't discuss or sleuth them here

 

[MistyWaters]

Yah a movie script most of these cases ain't

Normally the ones that don't get caught right away always have a few key elements

The crime is seemingly random with no obvious/easily traceable connection to the victims

The crimes happen very quickly

And they are extremely lucky

The more complicated the crime is the more likely it is solved within days of the crime taking place (more complicated more mistakes and more evidence)

And generally just more chances of being seen

Its one thing to not be seen in the act of committing the crime.

It's another to actually go back to the same location and to try to place bodies without being caught again, especially when there are more suspicious eyes focused on the general area

The odds would be astronomical

Nobody is that lucky no matter how clever or smart they think they are

Somewhere in the archives of statistics, it’s also said outdoor crimes are often harder to solve.

That makes sense to me for lots of reasons - it’s much more difficult to collect evidence from grass/natural elements as opposed to physical premises, there’s less chance of CCTV and in this case the perp would’ve been able to view the surroundings to eliminate any eye witnesses. An initial search for missing girls also caused a lot of different people to tromp around while searching so possibly contamination occurred reducing the ability of sniffer dogs to successfully track the perp.

Worst case scenario - if the perp happened to be involved in that initial search, that could also justify his DNA being found near the crime scene adding a whole other layer of complexity.

 

[MistyWaters]

Agreed and even if we did know we can't discuss or sleuth them here

Yes indeed, there can be a fine line between witnesses and suspects.....somebody claiming to have seen a murder suspect or someone attempting to point fingers in another direction while admitting to their presence during the time a murder occurred.

It’s impossible for the general public to determine one from another in the absence of investigative facts of the crime.

 

[crazychris]

And like I said previously, he got lucky:

But Buddy, YOUR LUCK IS GOING TO RUN OUT!

I hope you are right but as LE has said before, not specifically about this case though, the longer it goes on the less likely it is to be solved. Never say never but he must be counting himself very lucky so far. I don't know about anyone else but I couldn't live like that, always with that nagging feeling at the back of my mind that today could be my last day of freedom and that knock on the door or rather my door being put in by an FBI or SWAT team. It's a sort of life sentence really.

 

[Boxer]

So how many/which witnesses have seen BG that we know of?

MOO there are no specific MSM sources for witnesses or times.
The sketch July 2017 info from at least two witnesses.
The sketch released April 2019, drawn Feb 2017 was information from one witness.

 

[ab01]

Somewhere in the archives of statistics, it’s also said outdoor crimes are often harder to solve.

That makes sense to me for lots of reasons - it’s much more difficult to collect evidence from grass/natural elements as opposed to physical premises, there’s less chance of CCTV and in this case the perp would’ve been able to view the surroundings to eliminate any eye witnesses. An initial search for missing girls also caused a lot of different people to tromp around while searching so possibly contamination occurred reducing the ability of sniffer dogs to successfully track the perp.

Worst case scenario - if the perp happened to be involved in that initial search, that could be also justify his DNA being found near the crime scene adding a whole other layer of complexity.

I'm not sure there is any evidence that the crime scene was compromised as it seems that the searchers were all informed what to do when they found the bodies etc.

Searches like the one that was being done on that day are very well organized and done in such away to preserve evidence

Also it seems as though the searchers found the bodies when they first searched that particular area so I'm not sure how much trapsing was going on.

LE was present when the bodies were discovered so I would imagine that they were called over as soon as the girls were located and it was very quickly quardoned off

As far as somebody being charged with murder and using the excuse that they were there just to help search and thats why they had left evidence at the crime scene? I'm not sure I have ever followed a case with that defense?

And as far as tracking dogs being used to locate BG, I doubt they would have been any use in this case regardless, as they need a reliable scent to be able to track from. Unless BG left an article of clothing etc behind I doubt they would have been much help in this case regardless

JMO

 

[krja80]

For the newbies on this thread (me included ), would y'all (if allowed) mind posting what the following acronyms mean:
BBM
MOO
BP
MSM

Thank you in advance, trying to keep up and I keep seeing those over and over again and can't for the life of me figure out what they stand for.

 

[ab01]

For the newbies on this thread (me included ), would y'all (if allowed) mind posting what the following acronyms mean:
BBM
MOO
BP
MSM

Thank you in advance, trying to keep up and I keep seeing those over and over again and can't for the life of me figure out what they stand for.

Bolded by me

My own opinion/my opinion only

BG is Bridge guy

Main stream Media

BP?

 

[susiQ]

For the newbies on this thread (me included ), would y'all (if allowed) mind posting what the following acronyms mean:
BBM
MOO
BP
MSM

Thank you in advance, trying to keep up and I keep seeing those over and over again and can't for the life of me figure out what they stand for.

BBM - bolded by me
MOO - my opinion only
BP - Becky Patty
MSM - Mainstream Media

 

[FinePrint]

BP = Becky Patty
MP = Mike Patty
CP = Cody Patty
FSG= Flannel shirt guy
and so, so many more. Don't be afraid to ask and welcome aboard!!

 

[Krwiley60]

This is totally my own opinion, but I think the more complicated the scenario, the less likely it is to have occurred. I know virtually nothing about BG, but based on what little I do currently know, I'm not comfortable saying that he's an elaborate or extraordinarily deviant killer. I don't see anything that sells me on complex details like moving or posing bodies, personal links to the CS location, taunting LE, wearing disguises, etc. That is JMO, and I could be completely wrong. But for now, I'm not giving this guy any credit other than he's an a**hole with good timing.

You are so right! My feelings exactly!

 

[krja80]

BP = Becky Patty
MP = Mike Patty
CP = Cody Patty
FSG= Flannel shirt guy
and so, so many more. Don't be afraid to ask and welcome aboard!!

Thank you so much! I will google the Patty's to figure out who they are. I'm not familiar with those folks.

 

[krja80]

Oops, those are Libby's grandparents. Sorry, I didn't know their last names, I assumed they had the same last name as Libby.

 

[tresir2012]

For the newbies on this thread (me included ), would y'all (if allowed) mind posting what the following acronyms mean:
BBM
MOO
BP
MSM

Thank you in advance, trying to keep up and I keep seeing those over and over again and can't for the life of me figure out what they stand for.

Bolded by me
My opinion only
Becky Patty, grandmother of Libby
Main Stream Media (news items)

HTH (hope this helps)

ETA edited to add. There is a list of all the non case specific ones somewhere. Maybe someone has a link to them.

 

[Krwiley60]

To me, I agree... it looks like the sort of thing he did because they made him mad. Kind of like a trigger when we kick the dog because we are highly irritated at everything and now at a poor defenseless animal. Apples and oranges, I know. But the same in a sort of way.

But my imagination is he walks around with a gun (probably has a concealed carry permit and is legally allowed to carry due to no previous felonies). He perceives their giggles are directed at him. He decides to "teach them a lesson" then it escalates as they look at him with shear terror in their eyes. Now, he's gone too far and if they live they will identify him for abducting them down the hill.

Anyway, just my guess based on what he looks like and the circumstances. However, if this was not planned, he sure did luck into the best possible location not to be detected. But... he WILL be caught!

It doesn’t matter how irritated or pissed off I was, I would never kick my dog. Under any circumstances.

 

[TL4S]

I think the more time BG spent with the girls, the riskier it would have been. Marching them around the woods, and/or through the creek, and/or over the bridge, for 10 or more minutes, just to get to the spot he then killed them, seems risky and unnecessary.

Add to that my lonely little thought that I hear running water (the creek) in the immediate background of the audio.

Personally, I don't think BG fully engaged the girls until very near the crime scene, and probably only spent less than 10 minutes directly with them. I don't think he led them to that specific spot, I think it just happened to be where he met up with and could approach them mostly unseen.

You may boo me off the stage now...