Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

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  • #81
In the trunk or went willingly if he was a coach or LE or ?

Holman is saying it is similar to Iowa. We know the Iowa girls were abducted in a vehicle because of the distance. That has to be one of few similarities because there was no cause of death in that case because of their decomposition. MOO.
I think the main similarity is the taking of two victims, the kind of killer who does that, makes himself out numbered. I just don't see with the timeframe, that BG put them in a vehicle. If he did I think they'd have been found elsewhere, not only a half mile from where they were first taken, near a public trail. JMO
 
  • #82
I walk quite a bit, mostly in the woods, but also around my small town.

If/when I cross paths with a group of girls of any age, I will give them a nod and say: "Ladies." For the older girls, I consider it a way to show respect, and the younger kids get a kick out of being called ladies. I imagine.

Maybe that's just mostly me. I have seen that from others, tho.

Anyway, maybe that is the reason LE wants us to think about "Guys."

I realize the word is common usage. But, it still seems odd to me.
That how my group were addressed growing up, my Dad would say "Ladies". I also heard "Girls". "Guys" was used between us or if we were talking to our age group of guys. It was also used by teachers sometimes trying to get a hold of a classroom but then I think I heard "People" more than "Guys". Could just be my period in time type thing and using "Guys" for two female is just the norm now. It seems a little odd to me also, BG saying "Guys".
 
  • #83
That’s only a slight snag for me. Could’ve been a family friend that one or both knew, but didn’t totally care for. At their age they might feel obligated to go with them even if they didn’t like him or if he gave them the creeps. My kid can be mortal enemies with someone and an hour later they are besties - middle school relationships are weird. Like I said, I’m not completely sold on this, but I can see something like this happening.

What I find puzzling is BP mentioned this conversation about BG a couple of times I think, but I haven’t read where AW confirms the girls apprehension toward BG. I saw where she said they said they talked about the path ending. Was she not privy to the same info or did she interpret their reaction differently?

I might not have seen her reaction to the additional footage or when I did I did not see her interpretation as dire as BPs. If anyone has a reference I’d appreciate a link.
AW talks about Abby's apprehension wanting to move forward and away. Libby answering with some language about but the trail ends. It was on this show on ID channel.

Down the Hill | Still A Mystery
 
  • #84
  • #85
That how my group were addressed growing up, my Dad would say "Ladies". I also heard "Girls". "Guys" was used between us or if we were talking to our age group of guys. It was also used by teachers sometimes trying to get a hold of a classroom but then I think I heard "People" more than "Guys". Could just be my period in time type thing and using "Guys" for two female is just the norm now. It seems a little odd to me also, BG saying "Guys".
Using the term "guys" for either gender. is very common here in Indiana
 
  • #86
  • #87
AW talks about Abby's apprehension wanting to move forward and away. Libby answering with some language about but the trail ends. It was on this show on ID channel.

Down the Hill | Still A Mystery
Is it also in here where Anna says that Abbey didn't know her house was back down that road under the bridge? So neither did Libby then? If so then I find that strange because at a much younger age I was out and about roaming with friends up to 2 miles away at least. Especially around old rail tracks. And Becky mentioned she drove back home in case the girls were walking back to her house. MOO.
 
  • #88
Is it also in here where Anna says that Abbey didn't know her house was back down that road under the bridge? So neither did Libby then? If so then I find that strange because at a much younger age I was out and about roaming with friends up to 2 miles away at least. Especially around old rail tracks. And Becky mentioned she drove back home in case the girls were walking back to her house. MOO.
I don't recall AW saying anything about that. It was really a short piece because there was another case talked about also in the hour program with commercials too. I would very much like to listen to that discussion if someone knows where AW talked about that.
 
  • #89
Using the term "guys" for either gender. is very common here in Indiana
It's common here also but when I was young girl it was mostly used towards me by my peers or sometimes a teacher. I heard "Ladies", "Girls" or "People" more. It's used more when talking about people, "those guys", which could be male or female, but not directly to a group/couple of just young girls. Unless by a teacher, camp counselor etc...
 
  • #90
I was watching the ID Discovery thing on this case; I followed it loosely so don't know what would be wrong with my theories since I have not followed it that closely. But could it be that the girls were going there to meet a boy that they met on the internet or a boy they knew? Why would the girls go there on a school day? If it was someone they met on the internet that would explain why perhaps the video was taken -they realized that the person approaching was not a 14 year old boy.

However, I would think if there was internet chat they would have figured that out by now. If it was not someone from internet (I have also been watching "Web of Lies" and there are lots of stories with the internet and young girls), I don't think the video would have been deliberate. No adult - let alone a child - would, in a moment of danger be thinking to kick their shoes off to leave evidence or leave a video for someone to find them; it happens in a split second and no one would think through this chain of events.

I also think he had to have a weapon, a gun most likely, especially if it was a stranger. Otherwise how would he have been able to restrain two girls? He would have had to tie them up if no gun because otherwise one could have gotten away.

How deserted is the area? would anyone have heard them? It had to have taken some time to do the murders and clean up- would no one else have gone by? The bodies were not found in the same area- he would have had to march them somewhere since I doubt he could have carried 2 girls though the woods so he had to have some measure of control over them (through a weapon or really knowing them well, or have been in a position of authority over them like clergy or a teacher, otherwise I don't think then girls would have marched through the woods for an aquaintance); it looks like it was quite a distance, they would have run. He could have caught one but he could not catch two running girls. Wouldn't the video/audio have captured the murders?

This incident calls to mind something I saw on Oprah. they said never ever go to the second location. Nothing good ever comes from that second location.

I also think it had to have been planned; it would not be a random person that came across them right then. He either knew they would be there that day or else saw them earlier and planned on the spur of the moment. If it was not a populated location, why would someone go there with a gun or rope-if he wanted to do something that day, he would have went to a place where there would be more people around. It was just random chance if he was a predator that he would encounter the girls there on a school day in middle of winter no less.

And BG has to be the killer. What are the chances that there's a photo taken right at time of the murder in a deserted location? And if that person was there innocently, I would have thought they would have come forward, submitted DNA, etc. and cleared themselves.

The tone of the talking is odd. Would a random predator call the girls "guys"? It's a somewhat casual term.

And why isn't DNA solving this case? If it is someone close like LE imply couldn't they test many of the people in the town of 3,000 (so what maybe 500 age-appropriate males?) and at least through familial DNA find the perp?

You have lots of interesting ideas and questions in this post. Here are a few things I'd like to address BBM:

Even though it was a Monday it was not a school day. Schools were closed for a holiday based on an unused snow day.

Its hard to know for sure if Libby's video was deliberate or accidental. LE seem to give her credit for being a 'hero' in having the presence of mind to turn on her recording to capture the onset of criminal behaviour. We do know that the girls had been taking photos (SnapChat) and recording their conversation prior to BG (the 'girl talk') so I think it is possible Libby's phone just happened to be in record mode when they spotted BG on the bridge. Either way it is amazing that the girls have BG's image and voice on the phone. These are valuable clues for LE and have made this case very captivating for the public.

I agree with you about BG needing to have a weapon to control the girls. Libby and Abby were both smart and athletic. Their combined weight was 300 pounds. I don't see how he could have abducted/murdered them both at the same time without a weapon to induce fear.

I've never been to MHB but I get the impression that the area, although rural and naturalistic, is not as remote as some people imagine. It is only a few miles from town, it is bordered by the HH Highway and private properties, as well as a cemetary. According to KG there were several people at the bridge that day (it is a teen hangout), so BG definately took a chance on there being a witness or there being someone near by to hear the girls scream.

LE won't disclose whether the audio/video captures the actual murders. They have said that there is more unreleased recording but not its contents. Its possible the recording was shut off, timed out/battery died before the murder. I get the impression there isn't much more video of BG. I think Libby put the phone inside her clothing as he was approaching.

I disagree with you about BG not likely being a random stranger. Lots of rapes/murders involves victims being in the proverbial wrong place at the wrong time. If BG was a family member/acquaintance/SM link I think this case most likely would have already been solved. Stranger crimes are much more difficult to solve because there is literally no connection between suspect and victim.

I think the use of 'guys' is a casual greeting, which initially BG used to his advantage in connecting with the girls. When he greeted them in a friendly tone, they probably let their guard down for a just a split second, long enough for him to pull a weapon and change his tone to a more authoritative "down the hill". If he'd approached with his weapon already drawn, or yelling in an angry tone, the girls might have run away into the woods or towards the private drive. The use of "Guys" was strategic to 'hook' them.

I'm hopeful DNA will help solve this case in time. It is possible that LE has only a partial profile or simply no match. If BG hasn't committed significant crimes before or after the Delphi murders, than his DNA is not in the database for comparison.

All JMO
 
  • #91
Using the term "guys" for either gender. is very common here in Indiana

Right! And it doesn’t necessarily indicate familiarity either. Someone asking a couple of strangers walking by for directions might say, “Hey guys, can you tell me how to get to Steak & Shake?”
 
  • #92
AW talks about Abby's apprehension wanting to move forward and away. Libby answering with some language about but the trail ends. It was on this show on ID channel.

Down the Hill | Still A Mystery

Will have to rewatch. Totally missed that part although I remember the path ending part.

Edit: Just watched it (well, just AWs parts). After she talks about the trail ending comment she says you can’t really know what they are thinking because you can’t really see anything or hear anything. I’m assuming she means BG isn’t in frame or saying anything. She doesn’t say anything about them being scared. If anything she’s saying you can’t really tell what is going on.

On a side note...I find her to be the most relatable of all of the family members. She’s very open and wears her heart on her sleeve.
 
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  • #93
I don't recall AW saying anything about that. It was really a short piece because there was another case talked about also in the hour program with commercials too. I would very much like to listen to that discussion if someone knows where AW talked about that.

I don’t remember that either. It was brought up by KG in the recent GH interview. She wasn’t aware of it and it came up at crimecon.
 
  • #94
i am VERY confused why the times of the drop off and pick up changed?? it clearly says drop off 1 and pick up 5:30


Month after girls found dead, double murder haunts Indiana town


"The girls were dropped off at the trail at 1 p.m. and were supposed to be picked up at 5:30 p.m., but they never showed, according to Indiana State Police."
 
  • #95
i am VERY confused why the times of the drop off and pick up changed?? it clearly says drop off 1 and pick up 5:30


Month after girls found dead, double murder haunts Indiana town


"The girls were dropped off at the trail at 1 p.m. and were supposed to be picked up at 5:30 p.m., but they never showed, according to Indiana State Police."

Great question. I think someone said who was to pick them up changed in the beginning as well, I think at first it was the same person that dropped them off and then it was her dad, etc.

Not to knock LE, but it is difficult to understand how LE expects legitimate tips sometimes. This is a confused mess imo, and the new sketches that are different but the same but not the same really (??) helped nothing.

Some days I think they know who did it and are on it and the April PC was all talking to him, everything had double meanings and they KNOW and others day I think they know not one thing more than they ever did and it was all bluster. This day is one of the latter for me.

Jmo though.
 
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  • #96
AW talks about Abby's apprehension wanting to move forward and away. Libby answering with some language about but the trail ends. It was on this show on ID channel.

Down the Hill | Still A Mystery

I’m unable to sign into this, can somebody please pull the exact quotes if you get a chance? Tia very much!
 
  • #97
I’m unable to sign into this, can somebody please pull the exact quotes if you get a chance? Tia very much!

I quoted what she said above.
 
  • #98
Will have to rewatch. Totally missed that part although I remember the path ending part.

Edit: Just watched it (well, just AWs parts). After she talks about the trail ending comment she says you can’t really know what they are thinking because you can’t really see anything or hear anything. I’m assuming she means BG isn’t in frame or saying anything. She doesn’t say anything about them being scared. If anything she’s saying you can’t really tell what is going on.

On a side note...I find her to be the most relatable of all of the family members. She’s very open and wears her heart on her sleeve.
AW is the only member of both families that I find to be totally likable for me.....moo
 
  • #99
i am VERY confused why the times of the drop off and pick up changed?? it clearly says drop off 1 and pick up 5:30


Month after girls found dead, double murder haunts Indiana town


"The girls were dropped off at the trail at 1 p.m. and were supposed to be picked up at 5:30 p.m., but they never showed, according to Indiana State Police."

Just poor reporting. They apparently confused the time police were called (5:30) with the planned pick up time. Nothing nefarious, imo.
 
  • #100
Will have to rewatch. Totally missed that part although I remember the path ending part.

Edit: Just watched it (well, just AWs parts). After she talks about the trail ending comment she says you can’t really know what they are thinking because you can’t really see anything or hear anything. I’m assuming she means BG isn’t in frame or saying anything. She doesn’t say anything about them being scared. If anything she’s saying you can’t really tell what is going on.

On a side note...I find her to be the most relatable of all of the family members. She’s very open and wears her heart on her sleeve.
She says, Libby says something like, well we can't go any father the trail ends. That to me sounds like a response to Abby probably saying something about getting away from the spot they were at, away from BG's approach. JMO
 
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