Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[tresir2012]

Agreed bringing them back to an area that was an active search scene would have been the complete opposite of BG's main objective of not getting caught IMO

Theres just no way that happened, As if it did this case would have been solved very quickly IMO

ETA

Additionally the fact that this crime has gone so long without being solved leaves me to believe strongly in a few almost certain things

1 BG likely had no meaningful connection to the victims, likely a complete stranger

2 BG likely committed the crimes within a very short time frame, He was likely long gone before anybody even knew the girls were missing

The search stopped at 10 p.m. and started again in the morning I understand. So there was a time when no search activity was taking place IMO.

 

[ab01]

The search stopped at 10 p.m. and started again in the morning I understand. So there was a time when no search activity was taking place IMO.

The official search was called off, but believe you me there were still many, Many people out there searching overnight.

 

[ab01]

Horse trails are common on the area surrounding the crime scene I understand, because the property owner has horses. It is an intriguing possibility. Did the girls go and see the horses over there? "Guys, have you seen the horses, just down the hill and over the creek"? Did Libby recognise him a little and video him approaching for a friend? To be able to later say, look who we saw on the trails?

AJMO

@mtnlites Has been in that park numerous times.

If she says that atvs and horses are extremely rare and would stick out like a sore thumb I tend to believe her.

Also it was the middle of February, not exactly prime atv and horseback riding weather.

 

[tresir2012]

The official search was called off, but believe me there were still many, Many people out there searching overnight.

Do you have a reference or link for the search continuing thru the night? I thought Abbey's mum said a lot went home at 10. LE finished at 12 midnight, and searchers went home because of the steep hills, Kelsie stated that just recently.
Also, RL land was definitely not searched that night at all because a searcher actually called at his house Monday evening to get his permission to search the next day.

Ok - I have to withdraw anything of CE as only the Heavy article seems findable now and that does not state times. I really thought I read in MSM that she took a picture at 2:49. Can't even find anything about seeing DG either.


2:07 Girls on bridge
2:30? LG video of BG on bridge
2:47 FSG sees BG on trail
2:55? FSG gets to MHB hears couple
3:15 DG and FSG talk at trail near parking

I think the time of the photo may have been 3.49. She saw DG when she arrived I believe. MOO
(Anyone with exact times CE was there please jump in)

 

[tresir2012]

@mtnlites Has been in that park numerous times.

If she says that atvs and horses are extremely rare and would stick out like a sore thumb I tend to believe her.

Also it was the middle of February, not exactly prime atv and horseback riding weather.

Not exactly prime trail walking time either then? I appreciate all opinions especially locals, but reserve the right to add my own. Mtn was just talking about the trails. I was not talking about the trails but adding my own thoughts about private land in the area. The girls were abducted and murdered on private land right? Riding horses on a warm February day on private land would be very likely. (Hunting on horseback with hounds is a winter pastime for example.)
MOO

 

[tresir2012]

IMO that statement speaks volumes. Elephant in the room in which we can't talk about elephants.

Elephants on the trails now? Don't be ridiculous.
;-)

 

[tresir2012]

MOO he knew of and really liked the flat place they were found.
Since I believe he is a local young man, I think he had a geeky epiphany at some point that the flat could not be seen from bridge, but he could see the bridge, like a hunting blind. Then he also noted prevailing afternoon winds come from the west, carrying sound away to the east. He is now not just hiding in plain sight, MOO he also murdered in plain sight.

MOO MOO Look for someone with a well to do background that offsets his social deficits. Too tightly wound, who has difficulty being natural, someone people are made uneasy by. Someone with off sense of humor, a startling or strange quickness in retorts or movements. Someone who never really connects, but really wants friends and approval. Someone who would kill over being passed over, rejected for a date or being excluded.

A local, a hunter, a fisherman plus everything else you mention - murdered in plain sight is right I think. Audacious attack, pre meditated or not? IDK.

 

[tresir2012]

ATV's were used on the trails in the searches that day and evening. It's certainly not outside the realm of possibilities that the murderer used an ATV to move the bodies under cover of darkness or even pretending to be, or actually being, part of the search imo. LE were not there after midnight so they would not have known would they? I'm pretty sure the maintenance workers on the trails use ATV's too rather than schlepp all their gear around manually. MOO

 

[tresir2012]

Indiana state police releasing one word after 2 years of no turn up.. is equivalent to Portugal police releasing sketch of the kidnapper in the missing case of Madeleine McCann

(Please refer to photo)

 

[tresir2012]

Agreed bringing them back to an area that was an active search scene would have been the complete opposite of BG's main objective of not getting caught IMO

Theres just no way that happened, As if it did this case would have been solved very quickly IMO

ETA

Additionally the fact that this crime has gone so long without being solved leaves me to believe strongly in a few almost certain things

1 BG likely had no meaningful connection to the victims, likely a complete stranger

2 BG likely committed the crimes within a very short time frame, He was likely long gone before anybody even knew the girls were missing

LE have witnesses so will hopefully know his timeframe. Do you think he was completely gone before DG got there to pick them up? I.e. before 3.11 ? If so then that is incredibly quick 2.30 to 3.11 would be virtually impossibly to commit the crimes and be out of there on foot only. FSG saw him possibly and perhaps one other.

 

[tresir2012]

Ok - I have to withdraw anything of CE as only the Heavy article seems findable now and that does not state times. I really thought I read in MSM that she took a picture at 2:49. Can't even find anything about seeing DG either.


2:07 Girls on bridge
2:30? LG video of BG on bridge
2:47 FSG sees BG on trail
2:55? FSG gets to MHB hears couple
3:15 DG and FSG talk at trail near parking

I'm gonna be a pain again. FSG saw BG at 2.47 . Is this after the murder DWK? Where did FSG see him? then he sees couple at 2.55. Couple of girls? Man and woman? This seems vital IMO. Have you some more info on these times? Really appreciate your input.

 

[tresir2012]

3:11pm Libby not answering DG's first call.
3:13pm Libby not answering DG's 2nd call.

I'm going to speculate the crime is already over by this time and the perpetrator had left the CS. Why? Because the phone was found near to the bodies and if the perp heard it ringing, it's more likely he would have picked up and/or destroyed the phone.

Or taken it and tossed it outta the window somewhere along BBR. MOO

 

[tresir2012]

No, it would be Gray Hughes thing, non MSM. so Take away the BG sighting by FSG.

2.07 girls on bridge
2:30? LG videos BG on bridge
3:11 / 3:14 DG calls ring but goes to voice
mail message
3:15 DG meets FSG

Still catching up. So we can put an estimated time that FSG saw BG and the couple possibly?

 

[tresir2012]

Everything is clean confusion in this case. It's turning into a circus.

Horses, elephants, perhaps yes.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Tres bien, Tresir! bbm above "so it had to be after 3p.m." Uh, not if DG arrived earlier than the time we have been led to believe.

From my transcript of GH's interview with BP:

So when Derrick got done taking his pictures in Frankfort, he came back to pick Libby up. He came up 75 and came across the country roads to pick Libby up, ‘cause it’s the easy way. That’s the way we always go, that direction. That’s just how you do here. So he – when he was – there’s a bridge – it’s called Wilson’s Bridge – and he said as he was crossing that bridge he called her again. We checked phone records and it was at 3:11 that he called her to tell her – he was going to tell her, “Hey, start heading towards the trailhead. I’m gonna be there in a minute or two”, you know, but she didn’t answer. So when he got to the trail…– to the drop off point, he called her again. And that on our phone records show at 3:14, and he told me that as he was getting out of the car, he called her. So at that point she didn’t answer so he started walking up towards the trailhead. He stood there for a little bit. He looked around and didn’t see anybody or anything so he started walking towards the High Bridge.

He was just about to where it forks and he ran into an older guy, a gentleman that was coming from the High Bridge, and he asked him, “Did you see a couple of girls there?” and he said, “No, but there’s a couple down underneath”. So Derrick, instead of going to the High Bridge, took the trail that went down to the creek to where he said that the couple was there. I don’t even remember if he said he saw them or what but he came walking back up and he called me. That was when he called me – it was about 3:30 – and said, “Libby’s not answering her phone and I don’t see her”. So we told him that we would – Tara works with me – so I started calling her and then Tara called and messaged. We sent several messages. We would take turns calling. Derrick did walk down to the Freedom Bridge and walked back. He passed that older gentleman again and – so he went
back to the car and he was, like I said, he was walking, and by this time it was about 4 o’clock.

 

[susiQ]

Actually, I agree. I think crossing the creek was an essential feature of his behavior. He wanted to get out of sight and the site was one he knew very well.

For me this makes it really important to think about and identify people that knew RL’s property and would know that outlying spot too.

Absolutely agree! This is where this investigation should have started right from the beginning, to narrow it down to anyone that had that kind of knowledge of the creek and RL's land.

 

[Yvettea]

Who is FSG, please? I don’t remember this name.

 

[susiQ]

Who is FSG, please? I don’t remember this name.

I believe he is referred to as "Flannel Shirt Guy" No other name.

 

[ab01]

Absolutely agree! This is where this investigation should have started right from the beginning, to narrow it down to anyone that had that kind of knowledge of the creek and RL's land.

I'm honestly not sure if that's not likely where it did in fact begin

It's highly likely that it did start as most investigations do with people known to the victims, people with a connection to the specific area of the crime scene etc and then moved out from there.

I truly think this case is almost certainly hampered by a lack of physical evidence recovered from the crime scene that could be used to tie to a specific individual JMO

With video, audio of the suspect and witness descriptions, If LE had any useful physical evidence they would have almost certainly had a suspect in their cross hairs long ago IMO

Additionally the tools are there to use parabon snapshot, Gedmatch etc. Something is holding them back from using those tools and Its my belief that its the lack of a viable Dna profile

I Think investigators were very hopeful early on that when they sent items in to be tested that the lab would be able to extract an unkown male DNA profile (BG's)

Unfortunately I don't think that ended up being the case

Its no fault of investigators IMO they can only work with the evidence that they were able to recover IMO

If the evidence wasn't there well its simply not there and its going to take some new information to be discovered in order to resolve this case

 

[Yvettea]

I believe he is referred to as "Flannel Shirt Guy" No other name.

O that FSG! Thanks.