Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[sunshineray]

The police seem to be utterly reliant on the audio tape and low quality photos to serve as a catalyst in regards to somebody recognizing the murderer.

I can understand that the police are reluctant to share details about the crime due to respect for the victims and their families. Yet, even general details would seem to be able to aid in making an arrest. For example:

- Was a fire arm used? If so what calibre? Maybe somebody knows a local "meth Mike" who has a fetish weapon in that calibre.

- Strangulation? Horrible to think about, but maybe a former high school student remembers local "creepy Carl" who once shared disgusting fantasies or who had been known to seek out with unusually disgusting themes as a twenty something year old.

I read something not long ago where it stated that LE in this case have had numerous false confessions. I think more than the families sensibilities, it's kept that info of how the murders were committed a secret so LE knows whether a confessor is really the killer.

 

[Cryptic]

Well said !
I believe that IF LE knows the motive, it could benefit the investigation if they made that knowledge public.

It would provide a basis for the public in regards to the type of individual(s) being sought and would bring greater scrutiny by any individuals that might be associated with the “social circles” of that type of activity.

Very well said.

The "social circle" concept is especially beneficial in a small town. Though I am not saying that everybody knows everybody's sexual, criminal, vengeance fantasies, respect / disrespect issues, such things are harder to conceal in a small town due to close proximity.

I am from a relatively small town. Extended social circle wise, I knew a very close pair of twenty year old cousins with violent fantasies- including ordering "hits". They were, were committing a variety of criminal acts, had fantasies about forming a "biker / mafia family". Their charisma and one in particular's intelligence made them potentially more than just standard small town talkers.

On another occasion, a local man came into the garage where I worked to buy tires. I among other , I saw extreme SM in the trunk. I knew of only one store in town that sold some of the the laminated page stuff he had- sick, I know. Other magazine may of been from a mailing list. If needed, I could also tell the police where the man probably bought gas / magazines as well as describe him, his car and the exact tires (tread marks) he bought. The name he gave would also be on the store receipt. I could even describe a few of the magazine titles and maybe the issue dates- thus possibly further narrowing his movements.

If there was a horrible crime in that town, a published motive either criminal or sexual might make me think of those people.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Very well said.

The "social circle" concept is especially beneficial in a small town. Though I am not saying that everybody knows everybody's sexual, criminal, vengeance fantasies, respect / disrespect issues, such things are harder to conceal in a small town due to close proximity.

I am from a relatively small town. I knew a very close "one spirit, one mind" pair of twenty year old cousins with a fondness for violent imagery- including murder, were committing a variety of criminal activity, had fantasies about forming a "mafia family" and were just plain bad news- especially when they were together as they "fed off" each other. On another occasion, a local man came into the garage where I worked to buy tires. I saw extreme SM (hetero and ) in the trunk.

I was never friends with any of these people. Rather, I just brushed against their "circles" for one reason or another. If there was a horrible crime in that town, a published motive either criminal or sexual might make me think of those people.

It's amazing what goes on in small towns. I'm sure most of our shock comes from just the fact we see and know more than if we were in a large city.

 

[TL4S]

I read something not long ago where it stated that LE in this case have had numerous false confessions. I think more than the families sensibilities, it's kept that info of how the murders were committed a secret so LE knows whether a confessor is really the killer.

Yes, at some point, we all need to accept that there's probably good reason for LE releasing what they've released, and nothing more. And if they don't truly have all that much, they need to keep some things for the very reason sunshineray has said. IMO

Honestly, I don't think LE means to be coy, or is sending covert messages to the killer. I think it's just us trying too hard to read between the lines.

 

[tresir2012]

Maybe LE stood down a bit at last PC (less LE present) bcuz perp's (s) already under lock and key?

Although I see the logic, the bit about "may be in this room" would be misleading if the perp was already in jail. Having said that, perhaps there is an accomplice, or at the very least a relative or friend of the perp that knew but is still free (the alibi)?

 

[tresir2012]

Just had a random thought, and have no idea if it means anything...but it's niggling at me. "Down the hill". Things have gone "down hill", is a commonly used phrase to mean a situation has declined; it's gone "down hill". Perhaps this concept might trigger a recollection....someone that uses that phrase a lot. "Down hill". It's weird how the subconscious manifests in to verbal speech.

Very amateur opinion and speculation!

Do you think it was maybe not a direction but was a statement? Eg. "Guys, just let me pass, I'm only going down the hill. " They stood back and as he went by, he grabbed one of them. MOO.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Do you think it was maybe not a direction but was a statement? Eg. "Guys, just let me pass, I'm only going down the hill. " They stood back and as he went by, he grabbed one of them. MOO.

Certainly possible, but it sounded more like an order to me.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[tresir2012]

This is Chapter 6 of the recently approved Renner interviews.
This one is with Anna and is the first of two interviews with her.
One of the things she briefly states is that she found out that Abby had Facebook and mentions a boy from another school. After all that has been discussed, this does show a possible online contact with at least one of the girls. This opens up the possibility of how available was Abby's Facebook at that time? Anna also mentions she was blocked from Abbey's Facebook too, to stop her finding out.
Wonder what the chances are that this could have been the opening for an online predator to make contact, in addition to Libby's SC, Kik and musically apps ?

 

[Boxer]

It's amazing what goes on in small towns. I'm sure most of our shock comes from just the fact we see and know more than if we were in a large city.

Agree.

 

[TL4S]

The police seem to be utterly reliant on the audio tape and low quality photos to serve as a catalyst in regards to somebody recognizing the murderer.

I can understand that the police are reluctant to share details about the crime due to respect for the victims and their families. Yet, even general details would seem to be able to aid in making an arrest. For example:

- Was a fire arm used? If so what calibre? Maybe somebody knows a local "meth Mike" who has a fetish weapon in that calibre.

- Strangulation? Horrible to think about, but maybe a former high school student remembers local "creepy Carl" who once shared disgusting fantasies or who had been known to seek out with unusually disgusting themes as a twenty something year old.

IMO, LE has shared a fair amount with the media and public. We know the general time and location the bodies were found and that they and the phone were all in close proximity. We know approx. when the video was taken, and from where on the bridge, and that it was taken just before criminal behavior, and that the girls were killed within "minutes" after. We know they were not answering their phone by 3:11pm. We know BG's voice, and what he looked like from a distance right before the murders.

If we also knew the COD, whether there was a SA, and the exact way it all happened, just imagine the youtube videos.

 

[BNA]

Could the "mannerism as he walks" be chewing tobacco? A thought. Would make for possible DNA... if he didn't spit it over the side. Just more thoughts...

Could be. But I feel like he was mumbling to himself...based on my other feeling that he was inebriated.

 

[MistyWaters]

Very well said.

The "social circle" concept is especially beneficial in a small town. Though I am not saying that everybody knows everybody's sexual, criminal, vengeance fantasies, respect / disrespect issues, such things are harder to conceal in a small town due to close proximity.

I am from a relatively small town. Extended social circle wise, I knew a very close pair of twenty year old cousins with violent fantasies- including ordering "hits". They were, were committing a variety of criminal acts, had fantasies about forming a "biker / mafia family". Their charisma and one in particular's intelligence made them potentially more than just standard small town talkers.

On another occasion, a local man came into the garage where I worked to buy tires. I among other , I saw extreme SM in the trunk. I knew of only one store in town that sold some of the the laminated page stuff he had- sick, I know. Other magazine may of been from a mailing list. If needed, I could also tell the police where the man probably bought gas / magazines as well as describe him, his car and the exact tires (tread marks) he bought. The name he gave would also be on the store receipt. I could even describe a few of the magazine titles and maybe the issue dates- thus possibly further narrowing his movements.

If there was a horrible crime in that town, a published motive either criminal or sexual might make me think of those people.

Just thinking about this, I’d bet people with traits that verge on the fringe of who might be capable of murder have already been tipped a multiple of times by others who know them, considering the substantial reward. But not everybody makes their lurid fantasies known to others and therefore I can see the value in LE asking the public to focus solely on the visual and audio of the suspect, rather than known behaviours. JMO

 

[susiQ]

The police seem to be utterly reliant on the audio tape and low quality photos to serve as a catalyst in regards to somebody recognizing the murderer.

I can understand that the police are reluctant to share details about the crime due to respect for the victims and their families. Yet, even general details would seem to be able to aid in making an arrest. For example:

- Was a fire arm used? If so what calibre? Maybe somebody knows a local "meth Mike" who has a fetish weapon in that calibre.

- Strangulation? Horrible to think about, but maybe a former high school student remembers local "creepy Carl" who once shared disgusting fantasies or who had been known to seek out with unusually disgusting themes as a twenty something year old.

Ahhh, strangulation. Seems to be someone's MO down in that area.

 

[tresir2012]

Just thinking about this, I’d bet people with traits that verge on the fringe of who might be capable of murder have already been tipped a multiple of times by others who know them, considering the substantial reward. But not everybody makes their lurid fantasies known to others and therefore I can see the value in LE asking the public to focus solely on the visual and audio of the suspect, rather than known behaviours. JMO

I think it also highly likely he has already been tipped, possibly even cleared by a false alibi even, early on. In fact, LE alluded to this when they stated they believe they were initially on the right track or similar words to that effect. Even the prosecutor said something similar IIRC.

 

[Boxer]

Certainly possible, but it sounded more like an order to me.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Agree.
MOO His words are threatening. No tone of the "excuse me, can I ask you something" that should in his voice, and would be there for any normal person interrupting others out in the world. I would really like to see the sketch produced by the AI voice modeling program.

MOO Even just the "Guys" is intonation is weird, to me it conveys " Hey you all, look over here and be shocked and scared"

 

[Cryptic]

But not everybody makes their lurid fantasies known to others

Very true. A certain number never publicize theirs. Others might generally intend to keep their lurid fantasies private, but forget one day (Xtreme in the car trunk at a garage). Still others like to boast or talk.

Two years have gone by relying on the public recognize two very different sketches and an audio consisting of what- four words in static. Might be time to give out more information if it is available.

 

[susiQ]

Maybe LE stood down a bit at last PC (less LE present) bcuz perp's (s) already under lock and key?

Yes, OR said perp(s) are talking and pointing the finger elsewhere, but LE don't have the DNA to prove it. Maybe they have so much DNA they don't know who to pin it with. There may not just be a twist here, it could be a bag of pretzels. There are a number of dealers in the area, snitches too. I started with one dead POI and one in jail, now I have one/some in jail and some "in plain sight". It's a very twisted web down there and I can only hope that it is only a matter of time before it gets untangled. JMO

 

[Boxer]

This is Chapter 6 of the recently approved Renner interviews.
This one is with Anna and is the first of two interviews with her.
One of the things she briefly states is that she found out that Abby had Facebook and mentions a boy from another school. After all that has been discussed, this does show a possible online contact with at least one of the girls. This opens up the possibility of how available was Abby's Facebook at that time? Anna also mentions she was blocked from Abbey's Facebook too, to stop her finding out.
Wonder what the chances are that this could have been the opening for an online predator to make contact, in addition to Libby's SC, Kik and musically apps ?

MOO with a younger assailant I cannot imagine this crime was committed without some SM involvement.

 

[zoricaj1]

...still nothing...

 

[mtnlites]

I think it also highly likely he has already been tipped, possibly even cleared by a false alibi even, early on. In fact, LE alluded to this when they stated they believe they were initially on the right track or similar words to that effect. Even the prosecutor said something similar IIRC.

This is closest to what I think may have happened. I think he very well could've been cleared early on, either through a false alibi or something else, and LE has gone on a wild goose chase in the opposite direction.