Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #109

[Detective Willy]

I think this guy is a serial killer for sure. He would not have just woken up on February 14th 2017, ended up in the middle of nowhere by accident, committed these murders and then gone back to live a "normal" life.

 

[scruffydog]

I think you're right. The missing piece is the same piece that keeps thousands of other murder cases from being solved: who did it. I do think they've got DNA from an unidentified source. But until they match it to someone, they don't know if it belongs to the killer or to someone else (DNA randomly picked up somewhere). I also wouldn't be surprised if the persons depicted in the two sketches both had nothing to do with the murders. LE has already ruled out the person depicted in the first sketch. The person depicted in the second sketch, if they determine his identity, may also have nothing to do with the murders. We don't even know where the witness saw this individual. LE certainly didn't give the witness account much credibility to begin with.

Agree with everything you’d both said!!

 

[gregjrichards]

I don't know if this has been discussed but is there a possibility the girls knew something about an influential person which could have been career ending if revealed?

I personally think that is unlikely with Abigail and Liberty being normal teenage girls. I don’t think monster is an influential person or he was someone ordered to do a hit job on them. I think he may have been a flasher and things got really bad real quick. He may have realised they were witnesses who could identify him and he could lose everything like his marriage and his job and he didn’t want that.

 

[Fizzle]

Maybe OBG & NBG are both based upon witness sketches created the week of the murders. For some reason, they thought OBG was the more accurate sketch at the time. Something changed — maybe something related to isolating the DNA of the murderer and receiving Parabon sketches for BG at different age ranges. They realize that the Parabon looks JUST like the other witness sketch from day 1 (that they had previously disregarded). They then release the NBG sketch & change the age range. MOO

 

[Boxer]

I wonder about the "getting around quickly."
Police having a theory know where he was at A time and then B time, and that is a lot more info than I thought they had.
I suppose they know when he was killing the girls for TOD and various constraining factors, but that they know something about where he was after, and the B time/place being interpreted by the police as meaning BG had local knowledge.

If the vehicle leaving CPS was really BG leaving, and he could have left as late at 5pm, that is very creepy.
I assume that means the fiend was waiting in the woods for a gap between searchers to sneak his way back to the car.

 

[Nerissa]

I wonder about the "getting around quickly."
Police having a theory know where he was at A time and then B time, and that is a lot more info than I thought they had.
I suppose they know when he was killing the girls for TOD and various constraining factors, but that they know something about where he was after, and the B time/place being interpreted by the police as meaning BG had local knowledge.

If the vehicle leaving CPS was really BG leaving, and he could have left as late at 5pm, that is very creepy.
I assume that means the fiend was waiting in the woods for a gap between searchers to sneak his way back to the car.

Yeah - I'm thinking along these lines too!

It's also interesting, a comment by LE, & gosh sure wish could track - I've done so before, but a couple weeks ago or so - to the effect that it's not the suspect they were worried about but building evidence!! Have all the evidence you want: but if you don't have the suspect - kinda pointless. Maybe poor wording by LE & I'm not 'reading' it right -but frankly, that essentially what was said. Could be my wishful thinking they know the perp - & just biding time, keeping him in surveillance, building their case.

Edit to add, as said previously: I do think part of that statement is due to LE believing the perp could get there, get away & establish an alibi - & they are pretty sure that alibi is shaky, & possibly someone is helping the perp to maintain it...
JMO

 

[CelticIre]

I may be wrong, but IIRC old teddy was arrest a handful of times in his teens for Assualt and Theft. Those were later taken off his permanent record.

Also after that first arrest he was release as they didn't have enough evidence to detain him if you can believe that!!

To my knowledge, he was not arrested while a juvenile. I've never read that in any published documentation or heard of it in any retrospective documentaries or interviews. If you know of one such source, by all means I would be interested to hear of it.

When he was arrested for the first time, he was released on bail pending charges. About two months later, he was identified in a lineup by Carol DaRonch as the man who had tried to kidnap her. From then on, he was either incarcerated or a fugitive.

The point of this is to illustrate that many killers, including serial killers, had no trouble or altercation with law enforcement throughout the trajectory of their escalating crimes and violent behavior. They were, to borrow the phrase, the last person in the world people would have suspected. So it is not outside the realm of possibility that the offender in Delphi is similarly regarded as a perfectly normal, law-abiding, non-threatening person with no record of criminal or violent behavior.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think this guy is a serial killer for sure. He would not have just woken up on February 14th 2017, ended up in the middle of nowhere by accident, committed these murders and then gone back to live a "normal" life.

The question is, how far does his crime map extend?
We need a national POV on this, not just Indiana.

 

[CelticIre]

The question is, how far does his crime map extend?
We need a national POV on this, not just Indiana.

I'm not clear on what you mean by "a national POV".

 

[rosesfromangels]

I'm not clear on what you mean by "a national POV".

Birds eye analysis from a national perspective. Meaning compare crimes with a similar signature nation wide to determine where his footprint might be

 

[Boxer]

Yeah - I'm thinking along these lines too!

It's also interesting, a comment by LE, & gosh sure wish could track - I've done so before, but a couple weeks ago or so - to the effect that it's not the suspect they were worried about but building evidence!! Have all the evidence you want: but if you don't have the suspect - kinda pointless. Maybe poor wording by LE & I'm not 'reading' it right -but frankly, that essentially what was said. Could be my wishful thinking they know the perp - & just biding time, keeping him in surveillance, building their case.

Edit to add, as said previously: I do think part of that statement is due to LE believing the perp could get there, get away & establish an alibi - & they are pretty sure that alibi is shaky, & possibly someone is helping the perp to maintain it...
JMO

That would be great. Very hopeful.

 

[CelticIre]

Birds eye analysis from a national perspective. Meaning compare crimes with a similar signature nation wide to determine where his footprint might be

Well, considering the FBI has been involved in this case, I would view that as such a perspective. They would have and would continue to be examining any similar cases across the country as a contingency. That's what the FBI does.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I posted a link yesterday that basically said they used information from all resources to make that sketch. It's a composite, and I'm going to take a wild guess that it came from one witness (with lesser input from others, possibly), the video, and evidence from the CS. YBG appears to be from a single witness.

Let's say, for example, there was a reddish brown hair found at the CS. If the YBG witness didn't describe reddish brown hair, but the OBG witness did, that would likely move OBG sketch as priority. JMO

The big question is what changed their minds. We have no way of knowing, and I was willing to back up LE about the change until Carter said the killer will likely be a combination of both. I still support LE, but have put less importance into the sketches themselves.

I’ve always thought the OBG sketch was HEAVILY influenced by the video.

 

[JnRyan]

I’ve always thought the OBG sketch was HEAVILY influenced by the video.

I've wondered that myself.

 

[PaulaDC]

That is one of the most polite ways of calling baloney that I have ever seen!!

Why does bologna/baloney get such a bad rap?

 

[PaulaDC]

Yes, I forgot about that part. (Then why put a hat on the sketch?)

They had no clue what his hair looked like. They wanted the face out there. A rush job that backfired.

 

[Cutiekitty]

To my knowledge, he was not arrested while a juvenile. I've never read that in any published documentation or heard of it in any retrospective documentaries or interviews. If you know of one such source, by all means I would be interested to hear of it.

When he was arrested for the first time, he was released on bail pending charges. About two months later, he was identified in a lineup by Carol DaRonch as the man who had tried to kidnap her. From then on, he was either incarcerated or a fugitive.

The point of this is to illustrate that many killers, including serial killers, had no trouble or altercation with law enforcement throughout the trajectory of their escalating crimes and violent behavior. They were, to borrow the phrase, the last person in the world people would have suspected. So it is not outside the realm of possibility that the offender in Delphi is similarly regarded as a perfectly normal, law-abiding, non-threatening person with no record of criminal or violent behavior.

Bbm - Sam little. There is always a counter point.

Serial killers, IMO, are unique individuals. Unique in society and unique to each other. A lot of times you read media reports where people state that so and so serial killer was the last person anyone would suspect. I question if that is because they appeared to be normal or if people are just kind of oblivious. I wonder if weird incidents with serial killers are justified or explained away internally by witnesses because people don’t tend to immediately jump to the conclusion that someone is a killer or has that potential.

Not being argumentative at all. Just something I’ve been thinking about and this seemed like a good place to put it. I do not think the Delphi offender is a serial killer.

 

[PaulaDC]

I'm thinking the 'getting around quickly' comment has more to do with the perp being able to get to the park, from the park & then back to somewhere else to have a believable/confirmed alibi.....

If this is the case: stands to reason they have a fairly good idea of who the perp is OR it's merely their speculation that if this person is local & the alibi a lie - he must have been able to hustle to make it work.....

Fits one theory I have - & that is whomever he is he was privy to the information, somehow, that Abby & Libby were headed to the park - he 'got around quickly' to pull this off

JMO

Unless he borrowed a vehicle without the owners knowledge and was gone without the owners knowledge and then returned the vehicle, also without the owners knowledge, and the vehicle owner is his alibi. That would also be getting around quickly imo.

 

[CelticIre]

Bbm - Sam little. There is always a counter point.

Serial killers, IMO, are unique individuals. Unique in society and unique to each other. A lot of times you read media reports where people state that so and so serial killer was the last person anyone would suspect. I question if that is because they appeared to be normal or if people are just kind of oblivious. I wonder if weird incidents with serial killers are justified or explained away internally by witnesses because people don’t tend to immediately jump to the conclusion that someone is a killer or has that potential.

Not being argumentative at all. Just something I’ve been thinking about and this seemed like a good place to put it. I do not think the Delphi offender is a serial killer.

I think a lot of the time serial killers -- and some criminals -- are just very good at masking themselves and playing at "being normal".

Sociopaths in particular seem to have either the knack or developed necessity of learning how to function unobtrusively in society. Ted Bundy is one example of that. So is Dennis Rader. Jack the Ripper was probably a very nondescript, ordinary, regular looking fellow living completely under the radar in Whitechapel. I think in hindsight, when killers are caught, that people around them start remembering things that were 'off'. We tend to see things in the past more clearly through the prism of new context and knowledge, if that makes sense.

I wouldn't presume to say definitively if the Delphi offender is a serial killer, but I don't rule it out. If he is a serial killer, I tend to think this is either his first or one of his first murders.

 

[Charlot123]

I don't think he actually lives in Delphi. He may have been there earlier that day specifically for a purpose (like a meeting, for example.)

Had he attended the search, I believe he would have drawn unnecessary attention with his presence by returning back to Delphi that day.

JMO

I don’t think he lives in Delphi, but he surely knows Delphi.

I wonder if he does not have the midwestern accent IRL? Well, say, he lived in Delphi and then moved to the East Coast?

For some people, it is easy to shed an accent.