Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #109

[ScumbagTrav]

IMO, KG needs to stop with the online banter and Q & A videos. I had heard Kelsi on some podcasts in the past and was incredibly impressed.

Since that time, I'm beginning to think she is showing her age and naivety. For instance, the "rumor" video didnt come off well at all imo. She came off as the young adult that she is, which I'm not blaming her for, mind you....just caused me pause at the idea she's become the spokesperson for the family...and idk if that's a good thing.

And the poor girl never asked for any of this...so I hope my words dont come off as harsh. A lot of content from her has come off as somewhat juvenile imo. And that isnt going to help anything.

I cant help but to wonder if the killer, himself, isnt one who is trolling her.

 

[Boxer]

IMO, KG needs to stop with the online banter and Q & A videos. I had heard Kelsi on some podcasts in the past and was incredibly impressed.

Since that time, I'm beginning to think she is showing her age and naivety. For instance, the "rumor" video didnt come off well at all imo. She came off as the young adult that she is, which I'm not blaming her for, mind you....just caused me pause at the idea she's become the spokesperson for the family...and idk if that's a good thing.

And the poor girl never asked for any of this...so I hope my words dont come off as harsh. A lot of content from her has come off as somewhat juvenile imo. And that isnt going to help anything.

I cant help but to wonder if the killer, himself, isnt one who is trolling her.

MOO if she or anyone thought she got the attention of the killer - LE would be all over that!

 

[x_files]

This case could quickly close with the discovery of PE as the Perp. It could be that “simple” despite all our elaborate theories and speculations.

I learned so much from the resolution of the decades old Jane Britton case. (The Harvard co-Ed). I was researching ancient burial rites because of the odd stones left on and around her body. I was convinced her death was part of an elaborate ritual.

Turns out her murderer was some random miscreant that climbed up the drain pipe in to her second floor apartment.
I tend to overthink these cases.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Strangers, dumb luck and unfortunate victims. This could be the case a dumb BG just happened to luck out and not get caught...not yet at least.

 

[Boxer]

Strangers, dumb luck and unfortunate victims. This could be the case a dumb BG just happened to luck out and not get caught...not yet at least.

MOO he is so lucky, that I do think he had "dumb luck."
This crime reminds me of shoplifting, with a criminal looking around and seeing that no one is paying attention, takes swift and bald action, grabbing and disappearing. Not random as much as opportunistic.

 

[sunshineray]

Some people have suggested he may be chewing tobacco and spitting to his left side. it definitely looks like he slightly turns his head to his left and then back. He may also be mumbling or talking to himself, another reason the girls felt uneasy and recorded him perhaps.

There is also something else look at his right hand, the one that looks like it is under his jacket or in his jacket pocket, Just as the video comes to an end, and loops to the beginning again, there is something that looks like it is hanging down from his hand, just a glimpse, like a strap hanging from his hand or something, then the video ends and begins again.
MOO

I see that slight turning of his head to the left also. It just really shook me up to see him moving his mouth like he was talking to himself or like someone else just pointed out, maybe to another person. If the girls observed him talking to himself I can see why they'd think he was creepy. Those poor kids, it breaks the heart again and again thinking about them watching him approach.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I see that slight turning of his head to the left also. It just really shook me up to see him moving his mouth like he was talking to himself or like someone else just pointed out, maybe to another person. If the girls observed him talking to himself I can see why they'd think he was creepy. Those poor kids, it breaks the heart again and again thinking about them watching him approach.

OR...he could have had AirPods on, and talking to an accomplice?

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

IMO, KG needs to stop with the online banter and Q & A videos. I had heard Kelsi on some podcasts in the past and was incredibly impressed.

Since that time, I'm beginning to think she is showing her age and naivety. For instance, the "rumor" video didnt come off well at all imo. She came off as the young adult that she is, which I'm not blaming her for, mind you....just caused me pause at the idea she's become the spokesperson for the family...and idk if that's a good thing.

And the poor girl never asked for any of this...so I hope my words dont come off as harsh. A lot of content from her has come off as somewhat juvenile imo. And that isnt going to help anything.

I cant help but to wonder if the killer, himself, isnt one who is trolling her.

She doesn't understand that her videos could jeopardize a trial, a conviction. A good defense attorney will study her videos, look for inconsistencies and holes, and pull her apart on the stand...planting reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors. Stay off social media Kelsi! We love you, but this is a bad, bad idea.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[SilentRogue]

She doesn't understand that her videos could jeopardize a trial, a conviction. A good defense attorney will study her videos, look for inconsistencies and holes, and pull her apart on the stand...planting reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors. Stay off social media Kelsi! We love you, but this is a bad, bad idea.

Amateur opinion and speculation

<modsnip>

I've watched her most recent video and there is absolutely nothing she says that could be useful for a defense attorney.

Shes not in the know. Shes not building a case, collecting evidence, investigating suspects, or otherwise responsible for finding facts.

Her video statements wouldn't even be admissible evidence.

 

[gregjrichards]

She doesn't understand that her videos could jeopardize a trial, a conviction. A good defense attorney will study her videos, look for inconsistencies and holes, and pull her apart on the stand...planting reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors. Stay off social media Kelsi! We love you, but this is a bad, bad idea.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I totally agree with you and @ScumbagTrav . I understand and appreciate Kelsi’s dedication to helping solve this horrific tragedy but she would be better letting people trained at LE and the FBI do so. Kelsi could end up doing more harm than good. I also really hope Kelsi is staying safe especially when out alone.

 

[SilentRogue]

I totally agree with you and @ScumbagTrav . I understand and appreciate Kelsi’s dedication to helping solve this horrific tragedy but she would be better letting people trained at LE and the FBI do so. Kelsi could end up doing more harm than good. I also really hope Kelsi is staying safe especially when out alone.

What do you think she has said that would 1) be admissible evidence (relevant, non-speculative, non-hearsay) and 2) vulnerable to impeachment or 3) substantial enough to create reasonable doubt?

 

[rosesfromangels]

I totally agree with you and @ScumbagTrav . I understand and appreciate Kelsi’s dedication to helping solve this horrific tragedy but she would be better letting people trained at LE and the FBI do so. Kelsi could end up doing more harm than good. I also really hope Kelsi is staying safe especially when out alone.

I agree. She shouldn't be putting herself out there like this, although I know she is doing it because she loves her sweet sister. It's dangerous. As you say, she needs to leave this to LE. But as SilentRogue pointed out....I'm very amateur, so who knows. ; )

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Trocroc9]

Doug Carter could have been saying look how much you have changed over the years because it could be someone that got cleaned up from drugs and became a productive member of society allowing him to now hide in plain sight. There are many people in Delphi that fit this bill imo.

 

[Trocroc9]

I agree. She shouldn't be putting herself out there like this, although I know she is doing it because she loves her sweet sister. It's dangerous. As you say, she needs to leave this to LE. But as SilentRogue pointed out....I'm very amateur, so who knows. ; )

Amateur opinion and speculation

I think she wants answers. Maybe that’s her goal. It’s like she’s prompting everyone to do more. If this is the case good for her. I think she hopes LE knows more and she is ready to move on with her life.

 

[gregjrichards]

I think she wants answers. Maybe that’s her goal. It’s like she’s prompting everyone to do more. If this is the case good for her. I think she hopes LE knows more and she is ready to move on with her life.

I understand she wants answers but I think Kelsi would be better concentrating on trying to get the sketch out in the public domain and honouring Liberty and Abigail’s memories like with the soft ball park. I don’t think the debunking rumours videos etc help the case any. Who is viewing them apart from a small number of people (including some of us) who care about the case?

I have a great deal of respect for Kelsi. I hope she doesn’t put her own life on hold because of the horrific tragedy she and her family has suffered. Unfortunately a resolution might be a long time away.

 

[Trocroc9]

I understand she wants answers but I think Kelsi would be better concentrating on trying to get the sketch out in the public domain and honouring Liberty and Abigail’s memories like with the soft ball park. I don’t think the debunking rumours videos etc help the case any. Who is viewing them apart from a small number of people (including some of us) who care about the case?

I have a great deal of respect for Kelsi. I hope she doesn’t put her own life on hold because of the horrific tragedy she and her family has suffered. Unfortunately a resolution might be a long time away.

Hi Greg! I think she has done that for two years. Imo she’s probably tired and fed up that’s why so much is happening with her since the last PC. I don’t exactly believe she put her life on hold but I think she’s trying to send a message of times up. Time for something to happen. She can’t stand to wait two more years. I think you are right in the debunking videos aren’t the answer. Those put her in jeopardy and just make her a target.

She may just be at a loss to know what is the way to handle any of this. Who wouldn’t be? She wants answers and is trying the best way she can while protecting her family.

 

[Trocroc9]

I understand she wants answers but I think Kelsi would be better concentrating on trying to get the sketch out in the public domain and honouring Liberty and Abigail’s memories like with the soft ball park. I don’t think the debunking rumours videos etc help the case any. Who is viewing them apart from a small number of people (including some of us) who care about the case?

I have a great deal of respect for Kelsi. I hope she doesn’t put her own life on hold because of the horrific tragedy she and her family has suffered. Unfortunately a resolution might be a long time away.

Also, I want to remain optimistic and think they have an idea who they are looking at regarding comments made at April PC. It is my hope that Kelsey knows this as well and this has given her the confidence to say and do the things she is currently doing.

 

[Cutiekitty]

IMO, KG needs to stop with the online banter and Q & A videos. I had heard Kelsi on some podcasts in the past and was incredibly impressed.

Since that time, I'm beginning to think she is showing her age and naivety. For instance, the "rumor" video didnt come off well at all imo. She came off as the young adult that she is, which I'm not blaming her for, mind you....just caused me pause at the idea she's become the spokesperson for the family...and idk if that's a good thing.

And the poor girl never asked for any of this...so I hope my words dont come off as harsh. A lot of content from her has come off as somewhat juvenile imo. And that isnt going to help anything.

I cant help but to wonder if the killer, himself, isnt one who is trolling her.

Did she make another video?

 

[PaulaDC]

I also feel like LE probably has a full dna profile, and I think I know why they're being so cagey about admitting it to the public.

I forget the exact name, but one killer actually went out of his way to never leave dna on anything he threw out, because he knew the police could legally search his trash, get dna off of it, and convict him. It took a set up at a restaurant to finally get the dna. I think LE is trying to avoid a potential situation like that, for when they finally zero in on a good suspect.

As for why they haven't nabbed the guy yet through GEDmatch or some other genealogy site, you have to remember those sites unfortunately aren't a catch all yet. There are people who won't show up at all. It's very likely they tried running the guy's dna through GEDmatch, and came up empty.

My hubby and I did DNA tests. 23 and put it in GEDmatch. On his paternal side, no relatives period. He may be the end of the line. Never thought that could happen

 

[Torch Carrier]

DBM

 

[Torch Carrier]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this. I went to ISP site to play the video of BG walking on the bridge to study his gait a little better. What I noticed gave me chills. If you zoom all the way in on his face while video is playing, he seems to be either talking to himself, singing, I don't know...but it's very noticeable that his mouth is moving. I never picked up on it before, maybe someone else has?

Edit: Sorry I forgot to link

ISP: Delphi Homicide Investigation

Spitting tobacco?