Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #109

[CSIDreamer]

And while I'm trying to track down facts or rumors, I'm wondering about the time given for the killer's video or photos. The Snapchat of Abigail on the bridge has been stated to be 2:07. I know I've seen times on the father's arrival at the trail to be approximately 3:00 - 3:11 is a time I remember. I don't remember if the 3:11 was when he called Liberty after arriving or his actual arrival, but I do remember reading he tried to call Liberty just prior to arriving at the trail.

What I'm wondering is where did the time of approximately 2:30 come from with regard to when Liberty took the video of the killer on the bridge?

Details from a recent video I took.

 

[mtnlites]

It's always been my opinion that a disguise was used, which is why the perp was able to "hide in plain sight" as quoted by the police at the press conference.

I think he's been able to hide in plain sight because the video of him is so undefined that it could almost be anyone. He seriously looks like half the men I know.

 

[HEY YOU!]

Who gave description of 1st sketch, was it a witness or from video

Does anyone have a timeline and map that coincides with it

Did couple under the bridge that flannel shirt guy saw right before he met Derrick on trail ever come forward

Who gave new sketch info

Is there a list of people who have been interviewed and alibied

Could one of the girls have had a burner phone

Can a burner phone be tracked

 

[HEY YOU!]

I think he's been able to hide in plain sight because the video of him is so undefined that it could almost be anyone. He seriously looks like half the men I know.

Agree 100% disguise may just be scarf, hat, larger clothing

 

[Jax49]

I believe from an early FBI poster. Last seen (picture of BG from bridge video) at 2:30pm. Hopefully someone has a link.

FBI expanding billboards for tips in Indiana teens’ killings

 

[Boxer]

Sorry.....grab a drink....this is a long post!

There is a piece of information that I knew I remembered reading and hearing about very early on in the case that I have been searching for for ages and I finally found it!

I was honestly beginning to think I had dreamed it, because it seems like the article I remember reading can no longer be found with the direct quote from Carter. The 2nd link below with the article portion has been posted many times, but again, not as I remember reading it originally.

Once again, digging up some 'old news' is making me hopeful that this monster will be caught.

In this Fox 59 clip, Alexis McAdams talks about hearing from Carter about, 'A key piece of evidence at the crime scene that was linked to the killer'.

This is the newsclip.

These are some of the things I have pondered about them finding:

A weapon, a receipt, his clothing, a disguise if he wore one, keys, a lighter...I could be here all night!

Here is the article. It is missing the direct quote from Carter, but I have bolded some of the references to evidence.

FBI putting together profile of suspect accused of killing Delphi teens

It is snipped to comply with 10% rule.

"All that information provides police with clues as to what kind of things they should be looking for as they serve search warrants. That, paired with evidence found at the crime scene, could help solve the puzzle.

Indiana State Police superintendent Doug Carter says they have several pieces and parts but they are looking for the one piece of evidence that will crack the case.

“I know that we have the human element – we have a very solid science element,” he said. "

I sincerely believe that LE is getting closer to making an arrest every day.

I will never lose hope for Abby and Libby that the last face I believe they saw will one day be plastered with the headline, 'ARRESTED! and that they will get their day of justice.

JMO

Just bringing this great post forward.

Just what police said, they have the evidence, just not he person i.e. he just isn't in database systems, being either too young or has been smart or lucky enough to keep a clean nose

 

[Justice101]

DNA must have been left around the site and what concerns me is that the first searchers may have ruined the crime scene.

In Aust. a little boy went missing and the whole community trod the crime scene looking for him before LE realised he’d been abducted so any evidence was lost and the dogs couldn’t pick up any scent. This was 4 years ago.

I hope this hasn’t happened in Delphi because I have a bad feeling the cops have nothing.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #43

I'm not that overly concerned about evidence being altered by the searchers:

There is no evidence that the search even went as far as where the girls bodies were found.
All searchers are given strict rules to follow. 1) Don't touch any bodies or anything anywhere. 2) Walk back the way you came and freeze if you see something. Call with walkie talkie or yell or send one back to the main center. 3) The people who stumbled upon the murder scene would have to have their DNA taken to identify their DNA versus the perpetrators.

When it's all said and done, I think that LE can separate out evidence left by the perpetrator even if it is not perfectly pristine. Just my opinion...

 

[helpfulcharlie]

I'm not that overly concerned about evidence being altered by the searchers:

There is no evidence that the search even went as far as where the girls bodies were found.
All searchers are given strict rules to follow. 1) Don't touch any bodies or anything anywhere. 2) Walk back the way you came and freeze if you see something. Call with walkie talkie or yell or send one back to the main center. 3) The people who stumbled upon the murder scene would have to have their DNA taken to identify their DNA versus the perpetrators.

When it's all said and done, I think that LE can separate out evidence left by the perpetrator even if it is not perfectly pristine. Just my opinion...

As long as the Ramsey family didn't find them, you're probably correct.

 

[Boxer]

I'm not that overly concerned about evidence being altered by the searchers:

There is no evidence that the search even went as far as where the girls bodies were found.
All searchers are given strict rules to follow. 1) Don't touch any bodies or anything anywhere. 2) Walk back the way you came and freeze if you see something. Call with walkie talkie or yell or send one back to the main center. 3) The people who stumbled upon the murder scene would have to have their DNA taken to identify their DNA versus the perpetrators.

When it's all said and done, I think that LE can separate out evidence left by the perpetrator even if it is not perfectly pristine. Just my opinion...

Yes, agree. Police started the community searcher out late in the morning of the 14th in part to provide time for thorough briefings on those rules.

 

[Andreee]

Just bringing this great post forward.

Just what police said, they have the evidence, just not he person i.e. he just isn't in database systems, being either too young or has been smart or lucky enough to keep a clean nose

Interesting about the key piece of evidence!

 

[Justice101]

I just randomly typed in Delphi Murders and saw a chilling reenactment of what could have happened. These series of 3 or 4 possible scenarios had had 2 girls (played by women) as well as the 1 man playing the perpetrator... acting like it might have happened. this was complete with him hiding out and following them, coming across the bridge, commanding that they go down the hill, etc. All this right on the actual Delphi bridge site at the bridge and under as well as actually crossing the creek to the crime scene area. Again, all done at the very site in Delphi. (I am not going to link it here.. scary background music was too much.)

Even though it was a reenactment, it sent chills up my spine. But it did make me think of: The absolute terror and panic of what those girls went thru trying to comply with orders and not knowing what the man was going to do to them.

Catch this predator!

 

[rosesfromangels]

Two other points got to me after listening to the podcast:

+ At latest press conference LE stated killer in 2019 was 18-40 but could have looked much younger. That means in the lowest end this guy could have been 16 in 2017 but looked much younger. Strange.

+ LE said “you want to know what we know” how do they know that? Has he been taunting them?

MOO

It wouldn't surprise me at all. Further, it wouldn't surprise me if he has been following the news and what's posted online as well. I bet he loves all the references to him and the speculations of impotence problems. A coward. And possibly a c

I just randomly typed in Delphi Murders and saw a chilling reenactment of what could have happened. These series of 3 or 4 possible scenarios had had 2 girls (played by women) as well as the 1 man playing the perpetrator... acting like it might have happened. this was complete with him hiding out and following them, coming across the bridge, commanding that they go down the hill, etc. All this right on the actual Delphi bridge site at the bridge and under as well as actually crossing the creek to the crime scene area. Again, all done at the very site in Delphi. (I am not going to link it here.. scary background music was too much.)

Even though it was a reenactment, it sent chills up my spine. But it did make me think of: The absolute terror and panic of what those girls went thru trying to comply with orders and not knowing what the man was going to do to them.

Catch this predator!

Good grief. While I’m sure intentions were good, this is in extremely poor taste.

MOO.

 

[mtnlites]

I'm not that overly concerned about evidence being altered by the searchers:

There is no evidence that the search even went as far as where the girls bodies were found.
All searchers are given strict rules to follow. 1) Don't touch any bodies or anything anywhere. 2) Walk back the way you came and freeze if you see something. Call with walkie talkie or yell or send one back to the main center. 3) The people who stumbled upon the murder scene would have to have their DNA taken to identify their DNA versus the perpetrators.

When it's all said and done, I think that LE can separate out evidence left by the perpetrator even if it is not perfectly pristine. Just my opinion...

My husband works state SAR and while what you are saying is technically correct, the search on the 13th was slightly different from the one on the 14th. The 14th was more organized, more "official." People signed in.

I have no desire to be a verified insider on this case because I don't personally know anyone involved. I do know a bit about the night of the 13th, though. There may have been a sign in sheet and they may have gone over the rules, but at some point it really was just a "turn up and start looking". I have family who participated. Some searched while others stayed near the cars, making calls and putting out the word. Some were there until almost daylight. They have described it as "dark, confusing, and frigid."

That'ss the extent of my knowledge, though.

 

[flashy09]

This is probably too off the wall, but I had some time on my hands today....

We know Libby took forensics classes at Purdue and the new sketch looks like a college aged male. That is a huge exposure of her to that age group - and people interested in crime. Just like some people that work with children are in it for the wrong reasons, maybe this BG took that class for "learning" purposes or because of an overall obsession with crime (but in an urge way, not a web sleuths way!). It's also possible that this person became obsessed with the preteen/young teen girl in his class and somehow did know she was going to be at the bridge. Snapchat, stalking, etc.

Another poster earlier mentioned planting evidence and that seemed to be dismissed, but it stuck with me. Mostly with the forensics class in mind. A normal criminal maybe wouldn't have the presence of mind to worry about planting evidence, but what if BG is somebody extra savvy and educated from that criminal class? What if he did grab a hat or a comb or cigarette butt (with his own gloved hand) from a roommate/frat brother (or an older man on purpose?) and "drop" it there on purpose to frame someone else or at least complicate the crime scene? Could that be what is throwing things off? Maybe some of the DNA found does belong to someone that has a rock solid alibi (because he wasn't there!) and LE can't figure out why?

 

[rosesfromangels]

This is probably too off the wall, but I had some time on my hands today....

We know Libby took forensics classes at Purdue and the new sketch looks like a college aged male. That is a huge exposure of her to that age group - and people interested in crime. Just like some people that work with children are in it for the wrong reasons, maybe this BG took that class for "learning" purposes or because of an overall obsession with crime (but in an urge way, not a web sleuths way!). It's also possible that this person became obsessed with the preteen/young teen girl in his class and somehow did know she was going to be at the bridge. Snapchat, stalking, etc.

Another poster earlier mentioned planting evidence and that seemed to be dismissed, but it stuck with me. Mostly with the forensics class in mind. A normal criminal maybe wouldn't have the presence of mind to worry about planting evidence, but what if BG is somebody extra savvy and educated from that criminal class? What if he did grab a hat or a comb or cigarette butt (with his own gloved hand) from a roommate/frat brother (or an older man on purpose?) and "drop" it there on purpose to frame someone else or at least complicate the crime scene? Could that be what is throwing things off? Maybe some of the DNA found does belong to someone that has a rock solid alibi (because he wasn't there!) and LE can't figure out why?

I have been posting that I think the Purdue connection merits additional inspection. Some folks were harshly dismissive, but I stand by that opinion.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[gngr~snap]

Deleted by me. I found it.
Moo

 

[rosesfromangels]

My husband works state SAR and while what you are saying is technically correct, the search on the 13th was slightly different from the one on the 14th. The 14th was more organized, more "official." People signed in.

I have no desire to be a verified insider on this case because I don't personally know anyone involved. I do know a bit about the night of the 13th, though. There may have been a sign in sheet and they may have gone over the rules, but at some point it really was just a "turn up and start looking". I have family who participated. Some searched while others stayed near the cars, making calls and putting out the word. Some were there until almost daylight. They have described it as "dark, confusing, and frigid."

That'ss the extent of my knowledge, though.

Thank you for sharing this “boots on ground” perspective. The sadness is griping.

 

[zoricaj1]

whos the ramsey family?

As long as the Ramsey family didn't find them, you're probably correct.

 

[Boxer]

I have been posting that I think the Purdue connection merits additional inspection. Some folks were harshly dismissive, but I stand by that opinion.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Purdue class
Church
School
Sports
Camp
Family

Busy girls and they came into contact with a great many Indiana Generic white males

All needed investigation. I think the police have gone through these groups.

 

[sloane7777]

whos the ramsey family?

Jon -Benet's Parents and Bro .