Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #109

[Boxer]

Hi flashy09,

People would be under the bridge because before Abby and Libby were murdered there was a geocache hidden under the bridge. “Geocaching” is not allowed to be discussed in these threads because at the very beginning (Feb or March 2017) inappropriate sleuthing was done and the topic was deemed taboo by the mods.

HTH.
RIP M+J

IIRC Police never asked for "the couple," "the guy" or the "photographer CME" to come forward, to me that means they all went to the police. - Unless "the guy" was actually BG.

 

[flashy09]

IIRC Police never asked for "the couple," "the guy" or the "photographer CME" to come forward, to me that means they all went to the police. - Unless "the guy" was actually BG.

I was thinking that. Maybe they interviewed him as a witness and he didn't look anything like the video or the other sketch so he was not a POI.

Could he have even given a fake ID - so many college kids have one for bars - and when they went to find him and reinterview they realized he is not who he said he was?

I can't think why he would be back on the bridge, but again that 12 -5 timeline....that leaves some time afterwards...maybe he did hike around some more to be seen on purpose? Far fetched, but just thinking out loud!

 

[Boxer]

I was thinking that. Maybe they interviewed him as a witness and he didn't look anything like the video or the other sketch so he was not a POI.

Could he have even given a fake ID - so many college kids have one for bars - and when they went to find him and reinterview they realized he is not who he said he was?

I can't think why he would be back on the bridge, but again that 12 -5 timeline....that leaves some time afterwards...maybe he did hike around some more to be seen on purpose? Far fetched, but just thinking out loud!

Maybe not so formal as a presenting a fake ID but telling searchers or one of the first deputies on the scene "what they wanted to hear."
By your excellent timeline if BG slowed down at all, maybe sitting down from the emotions after killing, maybe he did not get going before 3:14, and then was presented with DG hustling up down the trail, calling out, probably flat out yelling, panicking, making phone calls and talking to anyone he met. This would box BG from going west on the north side.

Getting to his car after 3:14 would have taken time, to steal his way along the trail or go around on south side with exposure along I25.
Possibly his need for cover slowed him down enough that he crossed paths with the first incoming police at the trail head or near his parking place. They may have asked a some perfunctory questions and "he told them what they wanted to hear."

 

[Cutiekitty]

It originated from the witness herself then was published in MSM (the article I linked) then also referred to by Gray Hughes several times. Once it hits MSM or GH it becomes quotable on WS. I think it is believable as photos also backed the times up IIRC.

Hi Cutiekitty,

CME replied to a FB post by a family member saying the quote in the message you replied to stating she walked across the bridge, saw a guy, then saw a couple, but didn’t see the girls. I’m not skeptical at all. She never stated she saw the man who was in the video on Liberty’s phone. “A guy” could be any male. Not necessarily BG or FSG or Liberty’s dad. Could be a jogger, hiker, dog walker, etc.

JMO

RIP M+J

It all originated from a response to something on FB (even though it was the witness) and not LE. Then it was perpetuated by youtubers. I tend to question things that originate on SM.

Why in the world was this witness putting information out, in FB comments of all places, about an active double homicide investigation? Not saying they are being nefarious, but just wondering why.

Edit: heavy.com isn’t the most accurate news site and relies heavily on SM. I have to admit they can dig up info really quick which is impressive.

 

[tresir2012]

It all originated from a response to something on FB (even though it was the witness) and not LE. Then it was perpetuated by youtubers. I tend to question things that originate on SM.

Why in the world was this witness putting information out, in FB comments of all places, about an active double homicide investigation? Not saying they are being nefarious, but just wondering why.

Well I can't answer that but a lot of people were being interviewed by media all over the town and many others are still in those early reports. There was another witness interviewed also - the bullshorn/Ebay flyer guy and FSG was interviewed many times about the trails. They didn't have anything to hide. You probably remember all the interviews the owner of the land gave too. If you didn't see them or don't recall them these are all in the media thread, if the links are still live.

 

[sunsetbeach]

It originated from the witness herself then was published in MSM (the article I linked) then also referred to by Gray Hughes several times. Once it hits MSM or GH it becomes quotable on WS. I think it is believable as photos also backed the times up IIRC.

Don’t get me wrong, I like Gray’s Delphi videos BUT I just happened to be watching his “Discuss Cases In The News” from July 25th (around the 3:00-4:00 mark) and thought it was very rude for him to call people from Websleuths “clowns” and said how stupid we are. According to GH we are literally dumb people.

 

[tresir2012]

Maybe not so formal as a presenting a fake ID but telling searchers or one of the first deputies on the scene "what they wanted to hear."
By your excellent timeline if BG slowed down at all, maybe sitting down from the emotions after killing, maybe he did not get going before 3:14, and then was presented with DG hustling up down the trail, calling out, probably flat out yelling, panicking, making phone calls and talking to anyone he met. This would box BG from going west on the north side.

Getting to his car after 3:14 would have taken time, to steal his way along the trail or go around on south side with exposure along I25.
Possibly his need for cover slowed him down enough that he crossed paths with the first incoming police at the trail head or near his parking place. They may have asked a some perfunctory questions and "he told them what they wanted to hear."

BG was seen at Freedom Bridge at 3.02 so that was before Derrick had even arrived or spoken to FSG. No police were there till after 5 when Mike spoke to his LE friend. BG was lucky and I certainly think he was gone from FB/CPS area by 3.15 at the very latest.

See timeline below

3:02
Possible suspect is seen at Freedom Bridge (not sure by whom?).
3:11
Derrick, Libby's dad call Libby while passing Wilson Bridge, no answer, he leave message at voicemail; he is almost there.
3:14
Derrick, Libby's dad call Libby again saying he has arrived at the meeting point,
no answer just voicemail, so he walk towards the trailhead, didn't see anybody.
Derrick walk further and meet an older man (the old FSM man witness?), coming from the high bridge, and ask him if he had seen the girls, but he had not but tell Derrick that there
was a couple (a man and a woman) under the bridge. Derrick then take the trial leading down to the creek to see if the couple was there, but Becky (Libby's grandmother), who is telling all this, does not remember if Derrick saw the couple or not.
Derrick then walk back to the meeting point.
3:30
Derrick call Becky telling her that Libby's not answering her phone and now the calls goes straight to voicemail.
3:30
Becky calls and sms Libby, but no answer.
3:35
Derrick walk down to the Freedom Bridge and on his way he meet the older man again (the FSM witness ?).


4:00
Derrick has walked back to the meeting point.
4:00
Becky calls her husband Mike Patty at his work and tell him she had called and sms'ed Libby, but no answer.
Becky tell Mike that they will go to the bridge and look for the girls.
Mike Patty says he will leave work at once and come to the Bridge and look for Libby and Abby.
4:??
Tara German (Libby's aunt) leave Becky's house 10minuts before Becky and when Tara
got to the meeting point she got into Derrick's car with Derrick.
4;??
As Becky leave her house Cody Patty (Mike Patty's son) come pulling in. He has just gotten out of work, Becky told him what was going on and Cody got in the car with Becky, and they headed to the meeting point.
When they arrived at the meeting point there was a lot of cars there also cars that did not belong to the family says Becky.
Becky call AT&T, bc Libby had reset her phone the week before, and Becky asked if they could ping Libby's phone but they said they could not do it.
4:18
Becky calls husband Mike Patty again
4-5:00
Mike Patty says that they, as a family, had searched the area, couldn't find anything.


5:15
Becky says "at this time Mike come walking up, he had been searching too" (at the meeting point) "when Mike got there he pulled in to Mr. Mirrore's driveway because there was no place to park due to so many cars".
Mike Patty call a friend who is a police officer.
5:15
Becky, after a long time talking to AT&T, give up talking to them because they could not help.
5:20
Mike Patty call the police

This is clear to me when reading this, that BG was gone before Derrick even arrived.

 

[Boxer]

BG was seen at Freedom Bridge at 3.02 so that was before Derrick had even arrived or spoken to FSG. No police were there till after 4 when Mike spoke to his LE friend. BG was lucky and I certainly think he was gone from FB/CPS area by 3.15 at the very latest.

Sorry, who saw OBG at 3:02 at the Freedom Bridge?

 

[flashy09]

Is the BG seen at Freedom Bridge the YBG or is the old suspect who spurred the OBG sketch?

 

[Cutiekitty]

Don’t get me wrong, I like Gray’s Delphi videos BUT I just happened to be watching his “Discuss Cases In The News” from July 25th (around the 3:00-4:00 mark) and thought it was very rude for him to call people from Websleuths “clowns” and said how stupid we are. According to GH we are literally dumb people.

I’ll take your word for it. Don’t want to give him a click.

 

[TL4S]

I’ll take your word for it. Don’t want to give him a click.

Me neither!

 

[tresir2012]

Don’t get me wrong, I like Gray’s Delphi videos BUT I just happened to be watching his “Discuss Cases In The News” from July 25th (around the 3:00-4:00 mark) and thought it was very rude for him to call people from Websleuths “clowns” and said how stupid we are. According to GH we are literally dumb people.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" my mother and father would always say and they were right.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Don’t get me wrong, I like Gray’s Delphi videos BUT I just happened to be watching his “Discuss Cases In The News” from July 25th (around the 3:00-4:00 mark) and thought it was very rude for him to call people from Websleuths “clowns” and said how stupid we are. According to GH we are literally dumb people.

We're in good company! Best group of clowns ever.

 

[Nerissa]

Isn't GH a websleuths member - ?

Lol, if so, add the kettle/tea pot to 'sticks & stones' - tends to be the case most of the time anyway

 

[tresir2012]

Sorry, who saw OBG at 3:02 at the Freedom Bridge?

I've since edited my post to add the timeline in anticipation of this question but it doesn't say by whom. You can go back to the source links that are in the foreigners post on page 39 of the media thread to see if it is mentioned in them.
My head is bursting with all these sightings and times and TL4S map times now anyway :-(

 

[Boxer]

I've since edited my post to add the timeline in anticipation of this question but it doesn't say by whom. You can go back to the source links that are in the foreigners post on page 39 of the media thread to see if it is mentioned in them.

Thanks, I will go see.
All I can find is a statement by the witness that (she) was on the MHBridge shortly after the snapchat picture was taken. I guess it makes sense she would make it back to FBridge by 3:02. She must have passed FSG who was making his way to MHB.

 

[sunsetbeach]

"Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" my mother and father would always say and they were right.

Very true and my Mom taught me the same thing.
A lot of people over here have supported him and his work over the years. (I’m not talking $)

I wasn’t hurt by it, just saying he was rude but I’m not shocked by his name calling.

 

[Boxer]

I've since edited my post to add the timeline in anticipation of this question but it doesn't say by whom. You can go back to the source links that are in the foreigners post on page 39 of the media thread to see if it is mentioned in them.
My head is bursting with all these sightings and times and TL4S map times now anyway :-(

MOO actually going over the timeline is really complicated.
Today has been a great help. It is a big time marker to knowBG was at the Freedom Bridge at 3:02. If BG was on trail from MHB to arrive at FB by 3:02, he would have passed FSG on the way.
And one more thing, BG probably took a short cut just before reaching the FB. There was a man on the FB circle area playing a shofar who have seen anyone coming onto the platform from the trail.

Along the trail MHB trail, just before the FB platform, behind the Hoosier Harvest Store on CR 300, there is a path from the trail to the road through the HHS parking pad, and from the HHS, CPS is about 1 minute away.

 

[tresir2012]

MOO actually going over the timeline is really complicated.
Today has been a great help. I do want to know who saw BG at the Freedom Bridge at 3:02. If BG was on trail from MHB to arrive at FB by 3:02, he would have passed FSG on the way.

I have a feeling it might have been FSG because I know Derrick saw FSG twice, the second time being at Freedom bridge I think.

 

[TL4S]

I've since edited my post to add the timeline in anticipation of this question but it doesn't say by whom. You can go back to the source links that are in the foreigners post on page 39 of the media thread to see if it is mentioned in them.
My head is bursting with all these sightings and times and TL4S map times now anyway :-(

Lol, sorry. Mine is, too. My map is to be taken with a grain of salt, though. Or clown dust.