Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #110

[tresir2012]

I really doubt the perp gave false witness accounts. Every male who was there that day has been extensively questioned and multiple times, I bet, and asked for a dna sample. I do not believe the police would fall for this ruse

Hiding in plain sight though. If he was a volunteer searcher or LE or a respected community member they could be more likely to believe him. MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

Wasn’t there an account of a man walking on the roadway? I seem to recall this being discussed

Yes, a hitchhiker as I stated in my post.

 

[TL4S]

The witnesses we know about saw BG on the trails and at FBridge right? BH wasn't at the those places he said he was at a property near the trails/park, so I don't think a witness could have seen him there. But who knows right?

I think this had to be a different witness who saw someone come out of the cemetery.

 

[TL4S]

He is from Portland Oregon and always says he bases his speculations on facts so he usually is a reliable source. You have to make up your own mind. It was initially reported by LE that they were looking for witnesses who may have seen or picked up a hitchhiker so I don't discount that he left via the cemetery.

Do we know what road that hitchhiker was on? I've seen that it was I25, but I have no idea where I read that.

 

[JnRyan]

I have posted the video on this thread too on page 1. I am thinking he was seen by a witness in a passing vehicle maybe. And that could be where the thought he was a hitchhiker came from.

I only saw one statement and it was supposedly from LE about a possible hitchhiker on the Hoosier Hwy. And now that I think about it, why would the killer be on the Hoosier Hwy? In one of my scenarios, he takes the wrong trail and ends up at the Freedom Bridge (this assumes the sighting around 3:00 is the killer), goes to the parking lot and crosses the Hoosier Hwy to the CPS. What if this was misquoted by media and they meant the Rt 300? (Or LE purposely gave the wrong road in order to obtain a valid witness.) GH states in his video that a witness saw someone in the area of the cemetery, but I don't remember anything like that unless it was someone not reported the media or validated by LE. In fact, I believe GH got it from a phone call about what someone read on Facebook.

Even though I strongly discount this witness sighting on the road in front of the cemetery, I believe there is a good possibility the killer went in that general direction after committing the murders. Again, an assumption here is this killer was familiar with the area. More than likely, though, I believe this killer stayed inside the treeline parallel to the road rather than going out through the cemetery. His pants are wet and this might be noticeable. There are no leaves on the trees or shrubs so visibility through the trees is good. He can minimize his chances of being sighted by staying off the road as long as possible.

If my scenario above is correct, could this be the reason for the change of direction by LE? IOW, the sightings on the trail and Freedom Bridge are not the killer. Instead it may be a person seen going to his vehicle at the CPS building and he was NOT seen on the trail AFTER the murders. Again, I'm just tossing out some random thoughts here.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

He is from Portland Oregon and always says he bases his speculations on facts so he usually is a reliable source. You have to make up your own mind. It was initially reported by LE that they were looking for witnesses who may have seen or picked up a hitchhiker so I don't discount that he left via the cemetery.

What kind of credentials does he have? He seems to pop up in different cases. MOO

 

[tresir2012]

Original sketch of BG is BG as is new sketch. I was just going through the case and wondering if one of the early witnesses came forward to say they saw BG on the Freedom Bridge was ACTUALLY BG misleading LE by providing 'help' with the first sketch and drawing attention away from himself. Also I believe he is a local that was spotted by at least one person who knew him and had to make himself less of a target. Who knows, if this is the case then he lied about BG (himself in reality) being on Freedom Bridge as well to throw investigators off. Also, I believe in the video BG is 'disguised' as much as he was wearing a hat, huge coat, possible scarf and who knows if anything else. Clearly he covered himself up so as not to be recognized. I believe that he put his disguise items (large coat, scarf, hat etc) in either a backpack or hidden to get later. At that point, a witness saw him undisguised and gave info for the new sketch which was BG without his disguise and is the current sketch.

And as for why LE seems to know who it is but has not arrested him, maybe his car broke down (CPS building?) and he had to call his dad (brother or friend) who now knows the truth but has covered for him. And the press conference was maybe an attempt to get BG to come forward without involving anyone else. Perhaps the family is well known and loved. Just a thought.

Well you have thought that scenario well through. If correct I wonder what he thought when he discovered he was caught on Libby's camera? When do you think he gave the OBG description because it didn't come out till 5 months after the murders? I do wonder why there was such a time lag, especially when they had a sketch (NBG) already from just a few days afterwards. Were they always a bit doubtful about it perhaps? They did say they thought they were on to something early on. It is a strange one to be sure.

 

[TL4S]

Well now that is a lot to think about. Is GH a local? I'm wondering since he's been vetted to be linked and quoted and the family are so open with him, doing interviews and all. Is he really in a situation to know 99.9% that BG left through that cemetery? I'm not trying to trash anyone, just trying to get a better handle on how much credence to give him.

I'm with you on this. I don't want to entirely discount what he says, especially since the families talk to him. But I don't know how he verifies his sources, such as the witness who saw BG leave from the cemetery. I'm not saying it's not fact, but it's pivotal information that isn't coming from LE. I personally believe there's a lot of information even the family doesn't know.

 

[sunshineray]

The witnesses we know about saw BG on the trails and at FBridge right? BH wasn't at those places, he said he was at a property near the trails/park, so I don't think a witness could have seen him there. But who knows right?

I thought BH was at the FB? The man who plays the shofar and said he told police some information he hoped would help. Wasn't that just talked about in the last thread, that he was by FB? I'm very confused now.

 

[tresir2012]

What kind of credentials does he have? He seems to pop up in different cases. MOO

?????? I really haven't checked him out. Tricia says he is an authorised source so that is ok with us and gives us more to discuss.

 

[tresir2012]

I thought BH was at the FB? The man who plays the shofar and said he told police some information he hoped would help. Wasn't that just talked about in the last thread, that he was by FB? I'm very confused now.

He was at the FBridge after the murders playing the shofar not on the day of the murders.
He was videod and interviewed by the news doing that.

 

[sunshineray]

Wasn’t there an account of a man walking on the roadway? I seem to recall this being discussed

Yes on highway 28 near Frankfort, IN carrying a black duffel bag, IIRC

 

[tresir2012]

I only saw one statement and it was supposedly from LE about a possible hitchhiker on the Hoosier Hwy. And now that I think about it, why would the killer be on the Hoosier Hwy? In one of my scenarios, he takes the wrong trail and ends up at the Freedom Bridge (this assumes the sighting around 3:00 is the killer), goes to the parking lot and crosses the Hoosier Hwy to the CPS. What if this was misquoted by media and they meant the Rt 300? (Or LE purposely gave the wrong road in order to obtain a valid witness.) GH states in his video that a witness saw someone in the area of the cemetery, but I don't remember anything like that unless it was someone not reported the media or validated by LE. In fact, I believe GH got it from a phone call about what someone read on Facebook.

Even though I strongly discount this witness sighting on the road in front of the cemetery, I believe there is a good possibility the killer went in that general direction after committing the murders. Again, an assumption here is this killer was familiar with the area. More than likely, though, I believe this killer stayed inside the treeline parallel to the road rather than going out through the cemetery. His pants are wet and this might be noticeable. There are no leaves on the trees or shrubs so visibility through the trees is good. He can minimize his chances of being sighted by staying off the road as long as possible.

If my scenario above is correct, could this be the reason for the change of direction by LE? IOW, the sightings on the trail and Freedom Bridge are not the killer. Instead it may be a person seen going to his vehicle at the CPS building and he was NOT seen on the trail AFTER the murders. Again, I'm just tossing out some random thoughts here.

You don't have to cross the HH to get to CPS building from the trails. It is on the east side of the HH and so are the trails.

 

[tresir2012]

Yes on highway 28 near Frankfort, IN carrying a black duffel bag, IIRC

Have you got a link for that? I am wondering if DG saw this guy if that report is correct because he was driving from Frankfort to collect the girls.
It could also explain GH being 99.9% sure of the sighting.

 

[TL4S]

I only saw one statement and it was supposedly from LE about a possible hitchhiker on the Hoosier Hwy. And now that I think about it, why would the killer be on the Hoosier Hwy? In one of my scenarios, he takes the wrong trail and ends up at the Freedom Bridge (this assumes the sighting around 3:00 is the killer), goes to the parking lot and crosses the Hoosier Hwy to the CPS. What if this was misquoted by media and they meant the Rt 300? (Or LE purposely gave the wrong road in order to obtain a valid witness.) GH states in his video that a witness saw someone in the area of the cemetery, but I don't remember anything like that unless it was someone not reported the media or validated by LE. In fact, I believe GH got it from a phone call about what someone read on Facebook.

Even though I strongly discount this witness sighting on the road in front of the cemetery, I believe there is a good possibility the killer went in that general direction after committing the murders. Again, an assumption here is this killer was familiar with the area. More than likely, though, I believe this killer stayed inside the treeline parallel to the road rather than going out through the cemetery. His pants are wet and this might be noticeable. There are no leaves on the trees or shrubs so visibility through the trees is good. He can minimize his chances of being sighted by staying off the road as long as possible.

If my scenario above is correct, could this be the reason for the change of direction by LE? IOW, the sightings on the trail and Freedom Bridge are not the killer. Instead it may be a person seen going to his vehicle at the CPS building and he was NOT seen on the trail AFTER the murders. Again, I'm just tossing out some random thoughts here.

The YBG sketch and LE asking for people who could give descriptions of the vehicles in the CPS lot both came out at the same time, two years after the murders. We do know at least the sketch was made only a couple days after the murders. LE has also made statements about reassessing old information.

I feel the two may be connected, as in the witness saw something needing reporting at the CPS lot, perhaps closer to that 5pm range. That witness described YBG and maybe a car.

But, if we can believe the other witness statements, they seem to be describing someone around the trail closer to the time of the crimes. Or in the case of the cemetery, close in proximity to the CS. Whatever the reasons were, it seemed one of these witnesses (along with the video) described someone who fit the crime better, so they went with OBG.

I don't know what happened to make them switch to the YBG, but all these other witness statements may no longer be valid. We just don't know. I have a feeling the witness that YBG is based from has not come forward on SM. JMO

 

[Justice101]

Continue to follow. Hoping to come here one day and see an additional gazillion posts. . showing something BIG is happening in the case. Fingers crossed until then.

 

[JnRyan]

You don't have to cross the HH to get to CPS building from the trails. It is on the east side of the HH and so are the trails.

I know that, but isn't there a parking lot on the WEST side of the HH? In the scenario I gave it was of one who was not familiar with the trails and takes the Freedom Bridge by mistake. Seeing the CPS from there and realizing they have gone the wrong way, they have two options - go back over the bridge to the east side OR go to the parking lot, from there to the HH and crossing. But just a scenario. It is based on some assumptions: the 3:00 sighting at Freedom Bridge is the killer, the killer parked his car at CPS, was not familiar with the trails then took the wrong one going to his vehicle and the killer was the person seen on HH. But again just a scenario trying to figure out why the person seen at the Freedom Bridge after the murders and parking the vehicle at CPS are the one and the same.

 

[JnRyan]

The YBG sketch and LE asking for people who could give descriptions of the vehicles in the CPS lot both came out at the same time, two years after the murders. We do know at least the sketch was made only a couple days after the murders. LE has also made statements about reassessing old information.

I feel the two may be connected, as in the witness saw something needing reporting at the CPS lot, perhaps closer to that 5pm range. That witness described YBG and maybe a car.

But, if we can believe the other witness statements, they seem to be describing someone around the trail closer to the time of the crimes. Or in the case of the cemetery, close in proximity to the CS. Whatever the reasons were, it seemed one of these witnesses (along with the video) described someone who fit the crime better, so they went with OBG.

I don't know what happened to make them switch to the YBG, but all these other witness statements may no longer be valid. We just don't know. I have a feeling the witness that YBG is based from has not come forward on SM. JMO

Yes, that's pretty much what I think about this case sometimes. The scenarios with all of the sightings and sketches don't have me going the same direction all the time.

 

[MDATCA]

Thanks, so if that was him at FBridge at 3.02 on his way to CPS he would have left the CS approx 2.40 ish?

According to the old billboards the video of BG was @230. I have seen it said both 235 and 239 as exact times. Now keep in mind the video may be from 235 and "dth" at 239. So I am guessing leaving the crime scene via the woods by 245 in order for CME to have not seen him at 247. He either was high enough in the tree line she couldn't see him or past her POV.
I can only see all of that happening so fast is if the girls did try running and crossed on their own. He certainly did not time too much more than a frenzied murderous act. No time to pose and cleanup as many have thought may be the case.

 

[JnRyan]

According to the old billboards the video of BG was @230. I have seen it said both 235 and 239 as exact times. Now keep in mind the video may be from 235 and "dth" at 239. So I am guessing leaving the crime scene via the woods by 245 in order for CME to have not seen him at 247. He either was high enough in the tree line she couldn't see him or past her POV.
I can only see all of that happening so fast is if the girls did try running and crossed on their own. He certainly did not time too much more than a frenzied murderous act. No time to pose and cleanup as many have thought may be the case.

I sometimes wonder if the sight LE saw at the crime scene was only the obvious murder of two middle school children when they were out looking for what they expected might have been two lost girls. That shock would get to me. That would also fit your scenario - he just killed them and left the crime scene immediately.