Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111

[moonlessnight]

I think COD could be quite similar to A & L. Time of day and location is quite similar, although not local.

Yeah, I wonder how much the water plays a direct role here. With both the perp and the victims.

ETA: Grrrrr feeling really restless...
Any Day Now!!

There was another thread about a “possibly” similar case, victim’s name started with an “A”, iirc...I actually started her thread I think...Autumn maybe? Something about North Dakota...does anyone remember? I’ll try to google...Someone had asked upstream recently if we had found any similar cases, and I thought of that one even though it’s likely a long shot...

ETA: Found it. Alicia Hummel:

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #86

Found Deceased - IA- Alicia Hummel, 29, Sioux City, 1 Jun 2015

 

[Sugarcane18]

How was the crime scene itself contaminated on the first night when the girls were not found until noon the next day? May the area nearby, but the group that found them were likely told not to touch anything and to call for law enforcement before doing anything. The area where the girls were found did not have 1000 people going through it or they would have been found that night.

Perhaps the girls were held elsewhere and disposed of there at the area they were found after the searchers left? I know not Occams Razor here, but I watched the video of LE saying the crime scene was indeed contaminated. This could explain the theory that LE may have multiple DNA profiles, and even if one of the profiles is BGs DNA it can be explained away as he was part of the search party. I imagine a defense attorney would have a field day with reasonable doubt if that is the case. IMO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

These are some of the dates where significant news in this case was released but there doesn't seem to be any pattern of Mondays.

Wednesday Feb 15, 2017 (photos of Killer released)
Wednesday Feb 22, 2017 (News conference 'down the hill' audio released, public advised that Libby recorded the audio and video, reward at $41K)
Wednesday March 1, 2017 (reward upped to $ 200K)
Thursday March 9, 2017 (News conference where Mike Patty spoke for the 1st time, reward upped to $ 224K and 11,000 tips rec'd)
Monday July 17, 2017 (1st sketch released)
Tuesday Feb 13, 2018 (1st anniversary press conference)
Wednesday Feb 13, 2019 (2nd anniversary press conference - no sketch shown)
Monday April 22, 2019 (2nd sketch released, 'guys, down the hill' audio released)

Please feel free to add or correct. This is just a running list I have going.

Thank you! Your work is perfect! My "accounting" is not even present somewhere .... (emoji blushing)

 

[Boxer]

Maybe an ex-military dude? Attending a college nearby now.

The DNA! I bet there is some. If you are a local, meaning, likely, Pennsylvanian German, how can you avoid LE finding a match in Gedmatch? Even a distant one? And how is this DNA good for ruling people out, but not in? Must be rare.

Perhaps the girls were held elsewhere and disposed of there at the area they were found after the searchers left? I know not Occams Razor here, but I watched the video of LE saying the crime scene was indeed contaminated. This could explain the theory that LE may have multiple DNA profiles, and even if one of the profiles is BGs DNA it can be explained away as he was part of the search party. I imagine a defense attorney would have a field day with reasonable doubt if that is the case. IMO.

Carrying two bodies in that terrain would leave a lot of evidence of the carrying. LG weighed about 200lbs.

 

[on the case]

If they saw something, then he'd kill and run. Why arrange things in a certain way before he left?

But do we really know if the girls were posed?

 

[tresir2012]

OK, that was March of 2017. At that time, there was a photo released and the word “guys”. Not sure about the first sketch.

Very important - at that time there was a possibility of two people being involved. DNAs were fast-tracked, so somewhere there is that DNA...

The twist could be about the full recording, where Libby documented that horrible story. Or that there might have been two people involved. Or maybe, that the girls were set up? Or that the reports of the witnesses were at such huge variance that they had two different sketches?

I think the latter, they had two portraits of one suspect from the get go.

Here is something about Carter’s phrase “how he has changed” from the last PC.

The FBI leaflet distributed at that time.

Information Sought in Investigation into Deaths of Liberty German and Abigail Williams — FBI

“On Monday, February 13, the individual or individuals responsible for these crimes may have been absent from work, missed or cancelled appointments or social engagements, or been unavailable or unresponsive during the afternoon period. They may have been a “no-show” or offered a plausible excuse for their absence or tardiness such as, illness, death in the family, car trouble, etc.

Since that time, the individual or individuals may have exhibited some of the following:

• A change in the daily routine(s), such as their sleep patterns or use of alcohol or drugs
• A change in their physical appearance (e.g., growth or removal of facial hair, change in length or color of hair
• Cleaned or disposed of clothing and/or shoes worn on Monday afternoon
• A change in normal routine which might include missing work or other engagements
• Anxiety, nervousness, or irritability
• Paid attention to the investigation, media coverage, or had discussions pertaining to the deaths

So what do you think the beloved ones of the BG have noticed as the change?

(My guess would be, he has not changed. He is so shallow... maybe he is nicer outwardly, but IRL, he has not changed his clothes, looks, nor is he more anxious. He denies own guilt. But maybe I am wrong.)

"Guys" was only released this year not in March 2017. I think the twist was the recording of the abduction itself. Also, I agree and don't think he changed as he has no conscience IMO.

 

[Justice101]

I think the “twist” is that the perp was caught on camera. That’s rare.

Agree with you. This was stated very early on and had to be once they had the video (and audio)

 

[Justice101]

MOO sadly nearly half of murders are never solved, these are just unsolved.
I don't think someone helped, but I do think someone crushed their suspicions, and the police distributing the wrong age and appearance of the suspect allowed them to do that. Now...they might need a push from a re-interview to talk.

I agree. In many cases, there is just no evidence left (physical, eyewitness, etc.) to point to a random person committing the crime. It can have nothing to do with whether the investigation was done well or done poorly.

Just nothing to go on.

 

[TL4S]

Here's a link to the interview where Leazenby talks about the "twist." It's near the end, around 9 minutes or so. There's also other good information in the interview, including a clarification about DNA evidence near the beginning.

DELPHI DOUBLE MURDER UPDATE INTERVIEW WITH SHERIFF TOBE LEAZENBY - 9tube.tv

 

[Cryptic]

There is also the possibility that he worked these murders into his job schedule, say if he’s a truck driver, delivery driver or had a local job gig. Often this is the case, that they are in the area for work. So, if he was delivering something, hauling something, he could have squeezed this in as part of his trip.

Expanding on that possibility, the vehicle the police are interested in is not commercial, nor were any strangely parked commercial vehicles seen by witnesses.

But.... perhaps the individual works as an independent hauler or courier who contracts for short notice local deliveries? I don't know if the Layette area is large enough to support such people though.

 

[Cryptic]

I would agree that you don't kill 2 teens in public in daylight if you haven't done things quite like it in the past. You don't get away with it for 2.5 years without experience either.

For better or for worse, I think there is a pretty good statistical chance that the perpetrator has not killed anybody before and mixed a moderate degree of planning with a moderate amount of luck that day in regards avoiding witnesses who could have produced a better description of him.

This is not to say that the perpetrator is a "Doctor Jeykl and Mr. Hyde". Rather, he could have displayed low to high ranges of various antisocial behavior in the past: aggression, deep seated criminality, domineering in personal interactions, over all shallowness etc. .

At the end of the day though, there are a lot of examples where perpetrators commit horrible crimes whose magnitude is beyond the behavior they had shown in the past. Sadly, whether through luck, moderate planning or both, they can get away with it.

 

[susiQ]

I would agree that you don't kill 2 teens in public in daylight if you haven't done things quite like it in the past. You don't get away with it for 2.5 years without experience either.

bbm OR, you had help! I've considered for sometime that this may have been a "joint venture."

 

[sloane7777]

I really think they know who he is, I think they are having issues with the DNA recovered , what if it was someone who had a close relative that was in on the search , or at the scene when they were found maybe they don't have a full DNA profile, and maybe a blood relative was searching (it is a small area ) could that be an issue? I don't know enough about DNA to know , Thoughts anyone?

 

[tresir2012]

Flora pizzeria owner charged with child molesting

Has this been posted? This sounds interesting at the bottom of the article.

"As has become customary with suspects in crimes against children in Carroll County, Sandifur's name will be passed along to Indiana State Police to determine if he's suspected of any other possible crimes in the Lafayette Post's district, Thomas and Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said."

(Mods please delete if not allowed)

 

[sloane7777]

Flora pizzeria owner charged with child molesting

Has this been posted? This sounds interesting at the bottom of the article.

"As has become customary with suspects in crimes against children in Carroll County, Sandifur's name will be passed along to Indiana State Police to determine if he's suspected of any other possible crimes in the Lafayette Post's district, Thomas and Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said."

(Mods please delete if not allowed)

JEEZE!!!! is everyone slightly red headed in this area?

 

[JenniD]

Flora pizzeria owner charged with child molesting

Has this been posted? This sounds interesting at the bottom of the article.

"As has become customary with suspects in crimes against children in Carroll County, Sandifur's name will be passed along to Indiana State Police to determine if he's suspected of any other possible crimes in the Lafayette Post's district, Thomas and Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said."

(Mods please delete if not allowed)

IIRC. Isn’t this the place that was Abby’s favorite pizza place ?

 

[HEY YOU!]

Or BG works for an auto shop, car dealership or the Subaru plant where they test drive cars. That would give an alibi that they were 'at work' but maybe took a longer drive than normal.

Would also explain why the attack happened so quickly and why perp has an 'alibi' of being at work.

 

[SeattleStew]

IIRC. Isn’t this the place that was Abby’s favorite pizza place ?

There is a Delphi address associated with MS:

4124 N US 421, Delphi, IN

 

[susiQ]

JEEZE!!!! is everyone slightly red headed in this area?

It would appear so And, to complicate this case even further are the countless connections of individuals with each other through nefarious activities. It's absolutely mind boggling to me. I have not come across this kind of "connectivity" in the small town I live in. JMO

 

[SeattleStew]

There is a Delphi address associated with MS:

4124 N US 421, Delphi, IN