Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #661
But have all the searchers been eliminated?

As searchers, yes they have to have had the DNA noted as searchers, MOO if a searchers DNA was found anywhere but in a direct line walking to the bodies, that DNA would be suspect and investigated.

If a searcher actually touched the bodies...that would take a lot of work to eliminate that person as a suspect.
 
Last edited:
  • #662
Exactly. It's an open air, outdoor scene. There is no doors, no weapon (I assume), no walls, no real hard surfaces that they could be sure were touched. If they find discarded items (i.e., a cigarette butt, a beer can), how could they be sure that it wasn't left there or thrown away the day before, or weeks before? Processing an outdoor forest/creek area must be completely different and really challenging. If BG touched a branch or leaf, which one? In this case only DNA on the girls bodies such as under the fingernails would be definitive - but if there was no SA or even a close up struggle, he may never have touched them.
Genuinely curious: how many people think he never even touched them?
 
  • #663
Wow.

DNA in crowded kid house, borrowing stuff, leaving on a chair, sleep overs, leaving in someones car, leaving on the bench at volleyball, on seat at church. Mind boggling.

Still, it is also a reminder of what a fine life they were living.

MOO even with all that DNA I think that like weaving, forensics could pull out all the contact possibilities to be identified and listed.

IIRC Police have had that info since the completion of tests about 6 months after the crime, yet at that time it seemed to me that they were looking for who didn't belong, for a transient type.

Something changed early this year, maybe now they are even looking for an insider.
I bet the old CS DNA maps and results and search elimination lists are highly relevant again.
 
Last edited:
  • #664
Genuinely curious: how many people think he never even touched them?

It is pretty impossible in my opinion. I keep going back in my mind to LE saying “you made mistakes”. He did not commit the perfect crime even though he has been free over two years. I have wondered recently if he could drowned the girls but I think it unfortunately that it is likely to have been a very violent crime scene.
 
  • #665
As searchers, yes they have to have had the DNA noted as searchers, MOO if a searchers DNA was found anywhere but in a direct line walking to the bodies, that DNA would be suspect and investigated.

If a searcher actually touched the bodies...that would take a lot of work to eliminate that person as a suspect.

Well, eliminated, probably, means “solid alibi for the moment of the crime”. From this standpoint, not sure.
 
  • #666
I have been following this case since day one. Many threads back (in the 50/60's) I posted my eerie feelings about my son's best friends Father. I clearly remember two days after the girls were found, laying in bed sick my son asks if I could drop him off to school because his friends dad couldn't because he wasn't back from outta town from a work conference. (Indiana)His parents an I would switch on an off every couple months taking the boys. At this time they are 10th graders. When Carter released the video my heart skipped a beat an I showed my husband. I said who does this look like to you? He said a typical 40's man walking a bridge. The next few months pass I noticed said Dad walking to get in his car. I couldn't take my eyes off of him he had on the same blue pullover windbreaker style coat, Dad jeans, he does have a small gait when he walks.
I know the family fairly well, our sons been friends many years. I'll call him KC.
He is a odd ball. 42 years old. Has no friends, in June of 2017 the wife invited us over one evening for a bonfire. KC sat in front of the fire an hardly spoke. My husband an I felt like we had to keep talking or you'd hear crickets! We roasted marshmallows. After about hour he abruptly excuses himself an goes inside. 40 mins later we are getting ready to leave an his younger son comes outside an says " Mom! Dad didn't have no bellyache! He took the laptop an hid in the bathroom!" Strange an rude. That night I asked my son what does KC do exactly for work? He explained hes some type of 'IT' guy that works on computers. Months would go by an my suspicions grew. My husband would say all the time how crazy of me to even think he could be responsible.
I said he's weird, he looks just like the man on the bridge, he has red hair, gait.
Here's a little eye opener recently back in July my family an I were on vacation. I was thinking of this case an than my neighbor.
I asked my son I know your buddy's Mom grew up here near us (Michigan) what about KC? He says, He grew up in Indiana. I almost my pants! When his buddy returned to the table I asked "Your Dad grew up in Indiana?! What made him come to Michigan? " He met my Mom on a Chat line in 99'. He's from Carroll, county. Maybe just coincidence but, I just cannot shake this. The only reason I haven't till this day called in a tip is because he was in the air force an also part of me feels like he possibly could not kill two girls. I believe the air force would have DNA on file. Secondly an lastly, he wears eye glasses. His son says he's only met his grandparents 3xs in his life. Weird. Just recently KC went back to see his Dad for a few days because he found out he had cancer. Hoping an praying this case gets solved very soon. Prayers an love to the families. ❤

@Owl4 , absolutely, report him. Maybe he is just a regular weirdo. But the issue is, since the LE is looking for a certain outlier, what if your intuition is not missing you? They are looking for someone who resembles BG. You think your acquaintance does. Just report.

Personally, I think that the perp may be not a Delphian proper, he grew up close enough to Delphi. People forget about hobbies and passions. I know a person who likes planes, he can name all active and abandoned airports in the country! What if BG was into trains when growing up? Then he might have visited Monon bridge many times, without even being a Delphian.
 
  • #667
Wow.

DNA in crowded kid house, borrowing stuff, leaving on a chair, sleep overs, leaving in someones car, leaving on the bench at volleyball, on seat at church. Mind boggling.

Still, it is also a reminder of what a fine life they were living.

MOO even with all that DNA I think that like weaving, forensics could pull out all the contact possibilities to be identified and listed.

IIRC Police have had that info since the completion of tests about 6 months after the crime, yet at that time it seemed to me that they were looking for who didn't belong, for a transient type.

Something changed early this year, maybe now they are even looking for an insider.
I bet the old CS DNA maps and results and search elimination lists are highly relevant again.
And Abbey stayed at a hotel with her Grandfather just the day before I believe. He had just got back to Michigan when he got the message she was missing and turned around and drove straight back. A pic shows her in the same top she wore in the SC photo. So more touch DNA from that hotel IMO.
 
  • #668
<Modsnip - quoted post has been removed>

LE has said several times that “no tip is too small”.

<modsnip> The last thing we need here is people advising others not to call in tips. Of course one should report what one needs to report. Let LE assess if they want to want to pursue it further or not. That’s THEIR job, not yours. Be very careful with statements like this. To anyone reading, do not listen to this type of post. Report your tip.

—-

Submit a Tip:

Anyone with information is requested to contact the Delphi Homicide Tipline at 844-459-5786. All information will be taken and followed up on by investigators. All callers may remain anonymous. Tips can also be submitted online via [email protected].
You may also contact your local FBI office or the nearest American Embassy or Consulate.

Field Office: Indianapolis

Submit an anonymous Tip online

LIBERTY GERMAN — FBI
ABIGAIL WILLIAMS — FBI
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #669
I have been following this case since day one. Many threads back (in the 50/60's) I posted my eerie feelings about my son's best friends Father. I clearly remember two days after the girls were found, laying in bed sick my son asks if I could drop him off to school because his friends dad couldn't because he wasn't back from outta town from a work conference. (Indiana)His parents an I would switch on an off every couple months taking the boys. At this time they are 10th graders. When Carter released the video my heart skipped a beat an I showed my husband. I said who does this look like to you? He said a typical 40's man walking a bridge. The next few months pass I noticed said Dad walking to get in his car. I couldn't take my eyes off of him he had on the same blue pullover windbreaker style coat, Dad jeans, he does have a small gait when he walks.
I know the family fairly well, our sons been friends many years. I'll call him KC.
He is a odd ball. 42 years old. Has no friends, in June of 2017 the wife invited us over one evening for a bonfire. KC sat in front of the fire an hardly spoke. My husband an I felt like we had to keep talking or you'd hear crickets! We roasted marshmallows. After about hour he abruptly excuses himself an goes inside. 40 mins later we are getting ready to leave an his younger son comes outside an says " Mom! Dad didn't have no bellyache! He took the laptop an hid in the bathroom!" Strange an rude. That night I asked my son what does KC do exactly for work? He explained hes some type of 'IT' guy that works on computers. Months would go by an my suspicions grew. My husband would say all the time how crazy of me to even think he could be responsible.
I said he's weird, he looks just like the man on the bridge, he has red hair, gait.
Here's a little eye opener recently back in July my family an I were on vacation. I was thinking of this case an than my neighbor.
I asked my son I know your buddy's Mom grew up here near us (Michigan) what about KC? He says, He grew up in Indiana. I almost my pants! When his buddy returned to the table I asked "Your Dad grew up in Indiana?! What made him come to Michigan? " He met my Mom on a Chat line in 99'. He's from Carroll, county. Maybe just coincidence but, I just cannot shake this. The only reason I haven't till this day called in a tip is because he was in the air force an also part of me feels like he possibly could not kill two girls. I believe the air force would have DNA on file. Secondly an lastly, he wears eye glasses. His son says he's only met his grandparents 3xs in his life. Weird. Just recently KC went back to see his Dad for a few days because he found out he had cancer. Hoping an praying this case gets solved very soon. Prayers an love to the families. ❤
Call. Don't even think twice about it. Tell LE about the physical likeness, that you've thought for some time that he looks like BG but only recently learned he is from the area.

If it's not the person they suspect - and I believe they do suspect someone - then your tip will go in the waste bin. But what if he still has ties to the area, has been there in the last few years, and you are supplying that one thread LE needs.

Call.
 
  • #670
MOO the police finally have movement on this case.
They are out re-interviewing again.
I read, from a great post how going back into cases was often fruitful because loyalties shift, people change, threats fade and consciences grow over time
And sometimes a person who would be devastated dies, clearing the way for the truth to come out.
 
  • #671
And Abbey stayed at a hotel with her Grandfather just the day before I believe. He had just got back to Michigan when he got the message she was missing and turned around and drove straight back. A pic shows her in the same top she wore in the SC photo. So more touch DNA from that hotel IMO.
Oh yeah, I had forgotten all about that. Interesting.
 
  • #672
WHY was FBI so sparsely represented if at all at the April PC? Was it to encourage a nervous witness/alibi to be less intimidated in deciding to come forward? Or was the FBI somehow a part of LE having gone in the wrong direction (and now LE is re-directing based on clues from early on) ?

I'm still wondering about the FBI being on scene from the very start, that very night. How did that all come about and who was the agent who was visiting family in the area, therefore so quickly on hand to help out... does anyone have a link for that? Haven't heard much about it since.

I often wonder WHY LE went with OBG. WHO was such a compelling influence pushing that sketch months after? Did someone shelve (literally or figuratively) the NBG sketch? WHO would have the power/influence/or possibly even a hand in things, to be in a position to be able to do that, not arousing any suspicion in doing so?

So many questions? Wish I knew if LE is surveilling/tailing someone. I HOPE they are. Can't bear to think they are not closing in.
 
  • #673
And Abbey stayed at a hotel with her Grandfather just the day before I believe. He had just got back to Michigan when he got the message she was missing and turned around and drove straight back. A pic shows her in the same top she wore in the SC photo. So more touch DNA from that hotel IMO.
Wow I hadn't heard about Abby staying in a hotel the night before, same shirt. What a forensics DNA nightmare that could be for investigators.
 
  • #674
I think this may well be the problem with the DNA. Or a relative of the perp was friends with one of the girls so innocent touch DNA was present.

MOO
Tresir, are you saying that you believe that ISP has a familial DNA match? I apologize if my critical thinking skills are blunted this morning. Cognitive dissonance from a late night and early wake up call.
 
  • #675
WHY was FBI so sparsely represented if at all at the April PC? Was it to encourage a nervous witness/alibi to be less intimidated in deciding to come forward? Or was the FBI somehow a part of LE having gone in the wrong direction (and now LE is re-directing based on clues from early on) ?

I'm still wondering about the FBI being on scene from the very start, that very night. How did that all come about and who was the agent who was visiting family in the area, therefore so quickly on hand to help out... does anyone have a link for that? Haven't heard much about it since.

I often wonder WHY LE went with OBG. WHO was such a compelling influence pushing that sketch months after? Did someone shelve (literally or figuratively) the NBG sketch? WHO would have the power/influence/or possibly even a hand in things, to be in a position to be able to do that, not arousing any suspicion in doing so?

So many questions? Wish I knew if LE is surveilling/tailing someone. I HOPE they are. Can't bear to think they are not closing in.
All very good questions!
 
  • #676
Tresir, are you saying that you believe that ISP has a familial DNA match? I apologize if my critical thinking skills are blunted this morning. Cognitive dissonance from a late night and early wake up call.

Basically yes. DNA from friends and family, that is there innocently, could be confusing if the perp is somehow connected to those persons, is what I am speculating.
 
  • #677
On my lunch break at 2 I am sending in my tip. With all the details I know. It is worth it. You all are right.
 
  • #678
  • #679
Agree as well. I also believe they are dealing with multiple DNA profiles. Who knows who was in contact with any clothing item the girls were wearing, if they brushed up against someone days or weeks prior, if someone else wore it, if they had innocent contact with touch DNA. I truly believe that the problem is not the lack of DNA moreover the many profiles that have not been ruled out. It’s that one tip that will solve this case. Just one tip. JMHO
I've wondered this myself. Early on LE did not say much or avoided the questions about DNA. Then we 1st Sgt Holeman answering the question by saying almost every crime scene now has DNA and touch DNA is a strong tool. BUT he did not address whether or not they had identified the killer's DNA. Now, on occasion, I hear LE say they have DNA. BUT they stop short of saying they have the killer's DNA.

I agree with you. I believe they have multiple DNA profiles that have not been identified. And who is to say that one of them is actually the killer's. He may not have touched either of them and LE is chasing DNA profiles of innocent persons. Even if LE has ONE unidentified DNA profile that doesn't mean it belonged to the killer. As an example that could belong to a guy that bumped one of them by accident in a line at McDonalds or a grocery store and he was just passing through the area - long gone by the time of the murders.
 
  • #680
I've wondered this myself. Early on LE did not say much or avoided the questions about DNA. Then we 1st Sgt Holeman answering the question by saying almost every crime scene now has DNA and touch DNA is a strong tool. BUT he did not address whether or not they had identified the killer's DNA. Now, on occasion, I hear LE say they have DNA. BUT they stop short of saying they have the killer's DNA.

I agree with you. I believe they have multiple DNA profiles that have not been identified. And who is to say that one of them is actually the killer's. He may not have touched either of them and LE is chasing DNA profiles of innocent persons. Even if LE has ONE unidentified DNA profile that doesn't mean it belonged to the killer. As an example that could belong to a guy that bumped one of them by accident in a line at McDonalds or a grocery store and he was just passing through the area - long gone by the time of the murders.
Agree with this. And add to that, that LE has not ruled out more than one killer and possibly more than a couple of motives. Very complicated case in my humble estimation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
85
Guests online
1,345
Total visitors
1,430

Forum statistics

Threads
632,383
Messages
18,625,556
Members
243,129
Latest member
Philta
Back
Top