Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112

[margarita25]

@momma_k , since you’re a local, I’d like to hear your perspective on a few thoughts if I please may:

There has been a lot of talk and speculation from the beginning about the potential of methamphetamines somehow being an element in the murders of these two girls. Meth has come up as a potential factor in a variety of ways, and continues to do so. (Let me know if you need examples.)

You said you live on the creek....

1. How prevalent in your opinion are methheads, transients and homeless in (literally) “your neck of the woods”? Is meth a big problem in your area in your opinion and do you think this has any potential bearing on the case?

2. Considering your local knowledge and experience with the local terrain itself, do you have any ideas/thoughts/theories as to what BG’s exit route and means of departure was after he murdered the girls?

Also, as a local, what are your thoughts on the latest PC reference to the vehicle at the abandoned CPS building?

4. What is your opinion on all the various trails, intersections, locations here and if and how these potentially may or may not be applicable to BG?

Looking over some old stuff:

“At the end of the VanScoy Trail is Sunset Point, featuring a view of Deer Creek, the canal, and the Wabash River. A spur from the river goes to Robbins Trail, a 0.5-mile section along Deer Creek that offers access to Trailhead Park and Deer Creek Falls.

The Robbins Trail turns into Happy Jack’s Loop with a spur to the site of Smith Dairy Farm along the Interurban Trail, a 0.8-mile route. The interconnecting trail system also includes routes along city streets and paths along Campbell Ridge Trail (a 1-mile loop at the south end of VanScoy) and the Monon High Bridge Trail (1.5 miles) beginning at City Park at the corner of East Monroe and North Walnut Streets. The Monon High Bridge Trail stops just short of a circa 1890 railroad bridge that soars some 60 feet over the creek.”

Delphi Historic Trails | Indiana Trails | TrailLink

5. Being a local, how has the recent PC mentioning/indicating more towards a person with local ties changed how you view this investigation now, meaning have you always leaned towards someone local? We of course know in profiling101 that familiarity with crime scene, awareness space, etc are common factors, etc.

In my case with Jessica Ridgeway, I used to say about her killer at large “he’s so close I can smell him”. And he was.

Considering the recent PC, and many other things, there are a lot of people that definitely think he’s right there with you guys, blending in in the community.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think he’s local as breathing the same air as you?

My opinion is he obviously most certainly knows the area and has been “here” before. My question is if he’s a former or current resident. I have a lot of thoughts on this. I’m just not sure he’s hanging out in Delphi as a lot of people seem to think. Everyone’s looking for this guy, wouldn’t they recognize his voice, etc? Does he keep himself isolated?

I tend to lean towards he has previously lived here, maybe has family here. Or maybe he works here and is “semi local”. Whatever the case he knows the area and I think he purposely came here to HUNT.

Just wondering what kind of a “vibe” you get actually being there.

Tia.

I’ve already asked these same questions to others who have walked that area; if any of those persons or others would like to bring forth their opinions on the above questions, please also feel free. IMO we are left with much regurgitating since there hasn’t been a peep since APRIL. We are approaching 6 months.

 

[FinePrint]

Look who is from New Albany and released from prison on Thursday, the day before this woman’s body was found.

Last of four charged with murder, torture of New Albany teen in 1992 released

Oh yeah I remember that case...very interesting coincidence?

 

[margarita25]

Mystery surrounds death of 20-year-old woman found in New Albany home


i know it says southern IN but its weird how no information is given at all

WOW! Is there a thread for that yet?!

I’ll start one if there isn’t one already.

ETA:
IN - 20-year-old Woman Found Dead in Home - New Albany, 9 Sept 2019.

 

[kc1023]

I’ll start one if there isn’t one already and add the thread link here as an ETA. Standby.

thank you!

 

[margarita25]

Delete duplicate

 

[flashy09]

So much talk today on what is "local" and to the point of being over analyzed. I went back to the PC and Carter said "We also believe this person is from Delphi- currently, or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis, or works here."

So to take him at face value, the suspect is from Delphi, lives in Delphi, or works/visits in Delphi often. Maybe he does live a small town or two over. The point I think he was trying to make is that he is visible in Delphi. So if you live/work in Delphi or in a town drivable to Delphi, think about anyone who has physically and/or mentally changed since the murders. At this stage after 2.5 yrs, I would almost disregard the bridge persona and the sketch ....the video is grainy, the gait is funny due to the planks....a high stepping, pivoting, weird man that looks sinister would have called in 1000x by now. The sketch is generic. Listen to the voice, think outside the box of who has changed since or was busy that day...not obvious like missing a meeting, but was flying out to see his mother type thing. An alibi you didn't even think was an alibi. I have a feeling it's someone that is "over protesting".....his FB page or business probably has the sketch and he may just be totally outraged over this pervert and saying what he would do to him if he came across him....that sort of thing.

 

[susiQ]

Look who is from New Albany and released from prison on Thursday, the day before this woman’s body was found.

Last of four charged with murder, torture of New Albany teen in 1992 released

Her last name is certainly appropriate

 

[Charlot123]

Personal opinion, I don't really consider it a positive to know this...perhaps a perspective born out of the uniquely American problems with our healthcare system. There is a very real fear that if insurance companies could find out whether you carried genes for Parkinson's or colon cancer, let's say, that they could refuse to insure you at all. If you read the linked article above, you would see a major reason why forensic genealogy, IF it has been employed in this case, may have failed to reveal a familial match. Many people discover after doing these tests that their parentage is not what they thought it was. And it happens much more commonly than most people think. So it's definitely possible that genealogy has been done but the perp is not tied in any meaningful way to his actual paternal parentage, for example.

This can happen, of course. I thought from the get-go that BG could be an adoptee, or a non-paternal event, or simply the result of something like embryo donation. However, this would not have precluded them (the Parabon, or other similar company) from finding biological half-siblings or siblings, and building a tree. These days, adoptions are open, and usually do not preclude finding the "common ancestor", and then, the descendants.

It is another thing if BG did ancestry test and found out he was adopted (like, no match with his sister, or cousins). This might have been a huge stressor for him. Usually people accept it well, I always support adoptees, but for very few, it might be a trauma.

Coming back to colon cancer - honestly, who doesn't carry genes for it? Colon cancer is common, but it is screenable (colonoscopy). It is another thing if the person carries the genes for familial polyposis (Gartner's syndrome). That is a much more serious condition, leading to early colon cancer.

Parkinson's is not a horrible thing. Tons of meds. And even transplants of substantia nigra, but not in this country because it is embryonic material.

BTW, they did a study here showing that even knowledge about being the carrier for ApoE4 (gene for Alzheimer's) did not cause anxiety in patients. Their first reaction was, "so, what do I need to do to delay the onset?" So I am all for knowing own genome.

 

[BradB]

2.5 years is a long time. The longer it goes without anything the longer it goes without it be solved. People evolve and grow. Situations happen.

To me, this case is dead. Never be solved.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

I know, me too. My sister said she'd pay for it but I said no thanks. So she got my Dad and my niece to do it haha. I just didn't want strangers having my DNA stored somewhere. Now if I commit a crime and they take it, well that's on me.

DNA isn’t all about crimes. I just helped a 73 year old man in the Netherlands find his sister in Ontario. Now he knows who his father was as his mother was left pregnant after WW2. It is helping lots of families.

 

[BradB]

You got audio and video and still cant solve it 2.5 years later. You need to work on other cases...

 

[Charlot123]

Hmmm...perhaps my comment above then refers to outdated episodes of Forensic Files, LOL. I’m sure you’re right and I’d be interested in seeing the latest data and articles on this. Care to please elaborate or provide any links? I’ll take a peek as well. Thanks. Because I could’ve sworn sometimes you only get one shot, that sometimes a DNA sample can be totally consumed in one testing. But this area of DNA is advancing dramatically and immensely as we know. I know there’s cloning, etc...

(O/T, not sure if you’ve seen this thread, but you may find it of interest (I might have already said this before, deja vu)

DNA Solves Cold Cases/Parabon Nanolabs & GED/Match. )

This is a good method for a minute amount of whole DNA, there may be mistakes, but overall, it works well.

Multiple displacement amplification - Wikipedia

This is if we have pieces of DNA

Polymerase chain reaction - Wikipedia

Thank you for the article

 

[Torch Carrier]

February would be a ridiculous time to hunt. They are either newbies or not really hunting. It is well known by anyone who hunts that is way too early. Warm or not. The ground would still be too cold.

But a mushroom hunter might be very familiar with the area, I think that's what the poster meant, from going on previous hunts.

 

[Charlot123]

DNA isn’t all about crimes. I just helped a 73 year old man in the Netherlands find his sister in Ontario. Now he knows who his father was as his mother was left pregnant after WW2. It is helping lots of families.

Great job, @Blue Amethyst! Proud of you! Amazing!

And not to forget, DNA can exonerate, too...

DNA Evidence Exonerates a Man of Murder After 20 Years in Prison

 

[Charlot123]

I believe I've posted this before, my hubby, 61 yrs old, dna test thru 23 and GED and not 1 paternal match in almost 2 years. So very possible.

@PaulaDC , I wish your husband to find someone close.

If he is in Gedmatch, and you say there are no paternal matches - I assume he has mom's DNA and has done "phasing", i.e., divided his genome into maternal/paternal parts, right? Otherwise, how does he know there are no paternal matches?

23@me does phasing automatically, I have my and dad's genomes, they divided my genome into paternal/maternal part .

So what I wanted to know, what is the ancestry of your husband's paternal side? Maybe his dad belongs to an ethnic group that doesn't use these tests too often?

Or, sadly, he has not left any other kids.

Or he is from religious group that prefers Ancestry?

Also, you can download his results to my Heritage and Geni. Com.

 

[susiQ]

You got audio and video and still cant solve it 2.5 years later. You need to work on other cases...

Forgive me @BradB, and with respect, but we still have "work" to do on this one. Besides, we're not LE, and we're not really working on the case. We're discussing it and doing some online sleuthing and coming up with theories and trying to make sense of the PC in relation to what we discover. We have precious little info to go on and unfortunately that's the way LE need it to be.

If you don't care for the direction of the thread, and truly believe this case is cold, you are free to browse elsewhere without us telling you to stay here when you obviously don't want to. Popping in here just to convince us the case is cold and to let it go, is pointless. We're here because we want to be. JMHO.
ed:change word

 

[BradB]

It's pointless to have a million pages of the same chatter for years. We cant discuss things that dig deeper in regards to family, friends, associates anyways. It's against the rules.

It gets everybody no where to spit the same stuff in and out for 2.5 years.

 

[susiQ]

It's pointless to have a million pages of the same chatter for years. We cant discuss things that dig deeper in regards to family, friends, associates anyways. It's against the rules.

It gets everybody no where to spit the same stuff in and out for 2.5 years.

Oh, I don't know, I've said plenty and if you word it right, it won't get removed If you want to discuss more, take it to a private conversation with someone. The mods encourage that!

 

[somequestions]

2.5 years is a long time. The longer it goes without anything the longer it goes without it be solved. People evolve and grow. Situations happen.

To me, this case is dead. Never be solved.

I might be inclined to agree with you if it were not for the video/audio that Liberty German got with her cell phone. I think the killer underestimated the two girls. I do not think he knew he was being filmed/recorded. I think as long as there is that video/audio, anyone might recognize either the video or voice someday. Without it, I would agree with you that this is a cold case.

I think the case of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook in Evansdale, Iowa is a cold case, but I think that case could be linked to this one. The saying on one of the posters in the Evansdale, Iowa case is "Yesterday was not the day...but that's OK because today will be." Realizing now that it has been over 7 years since that crime happened puts things in perspective.

In my opinion, after 2 1/2 years, investigators need to be a little more open to the idea that the killer might not be someone local to the Delphi, IN area. Just because someone knows about the Monon High Bridge does not make them local to the Delphi, IN area. I understand why people think that, but public places can be visited by anyone from anywhere.

In both cases I hope the families do not have to continue waiting for tomorrow.

 

[ScumbagTrav]

It's pointless to have a million pages of the same chatter for years. We cant discuss things that dig deeper in regards to family, friends, associates anyways. It's against the rules.

It gets everybody no where to spit the same stuff in and out for 2.5 years.

I'm sure the families of Libby and Abby would want us, and others, to continue to discuss this case. It keeps it alive. It does no harm.