Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #113

[Boxer]

Insanity means the perp wasn't in control of his faculties, and was therefore unaccountable for the premeditation and execution of the crime.

Our perp must be able to keep it together, disguise himself, maintain a low profile in the aftermath of a cold-blooded act of murder that broke the hearts of many people. This suggests a person whose nature isn't chaotic, IMO, but deliberate and measured. The kind of personality that would excel at sports and strategy.

If he isn't a sociopath (unlikely) and felt an insanity defense was likely because he was clinically "insane," he may well have given himself up by now. But we're not talking about a reasonable person. This is a person who is cool with escaping accountability by carrying on with his life as if nothing ever happened. Perhaps he sees it as a youthful misjudgment, or compartmentalizes it in some way that prevents his conscience from guiding his actions. MOO

Yes. MOO the person who would turn themselves in, is a person who killed while overwhelmed by emotion and committed a violent act, they have remorse.
A person so self centered as to kill innocent people is not likely to have a conscience capable of pushing them to any thing but find rationales to excuse themselves.

 

[Nadal]

I don't think he has paranoid schizophrenia or some other severe mental illness that would largely remove personal responsibility. I think he would have been caught by now if so, this attack happening then him somehow getting away in that state to medicate or whatever to restore his control is just way too perfect. And if this was a permanent state i imagine he would've went on a Richard Chase/Herbert Mullin like spree. There's no way he wouldn't have been caught or other local crimes wouldn't have happened.

Personally i think he's sociopathic or psychopathic which is a mental illness but obviously not what you were going for in your question.

 

[TL4S]

This was interesting. The sheriff saying 11 months after the murders that LE were still digging deeper into certain people's cell phone activity on the day of the murders. I wonder what about them wasn't adding up in investigators minds?

"One thing they’ve been doing is conducting additional follow-up on information provided by working with technology, mainly from cell phones.

“Some investigators continue to dig deeper into backtracking what certain people were doing on February 13”, he said, of the information captured from cell phones in the area that day."

Case of Delphi teen murders has not gone cold, sheriff says

That is interesting!

 

[Nadal]

Yes. MOO the person who would turn themselves in, is a person who killed while overwhelmed by emotion and committed a violent act, they have remorse.
A person so self centered as to kill innocent people is not likely to have a conscience capable of pushing them to any thing but find rationales to excuse themselves.

Some do have remorse though, the Weepy Voiced Killer is an example, he was seemingly distraught after every murder and was begging police to catch him even though he wouldn't give himself up. He killed three seperate times and targeted his victims so he wasn't just overwhelmed by emotion on one occasion.

Self-Preservation is a powerful thing, remember there's been countless examples of people who didn't take part in any murders but didn't give their spouse or whoever up because they loved them or whatever. It's definitely more rare than an uncaring killer but it definitely happens, most killers don't hand their selfs in.

 

[TL4S]

Your scenario is pretty much identical to my initial theory of things, except I had him parking in the cemetery, not knowing KG had driven east to west. I see your point about intent that this idea might show, and it’s a good one.
I’ll have to think on this a bit. Gosh, I just think the cemetery is involved somehow, but that might be wrong.

I know, the cemetery seems like the absolute perfect place to park, walk through the woods, etc., without being seen by anyone. And if he knew the girls were going to be there, or if he was just simply out there to kill whatever person came along, than I could see that. But as you said, he would have had to get lucky that nobody else was around.

The more I think about it, if he saw them dropped off, and didn't know which way they intended to hike (like maybe they were going to cross the Freedom Bridge instead), parking at the CPS lot meant he'd run into them either way, eventually. Plus he would have known how many cars were parked in both lots to begin with. That feels like more stalker type behavior, which is how I see BG because of the way he cornered them and such. And with that in mind, it also makes me more open to the possibility he followed them in his car. IDK.

I can see both scenarios happening.

 

[Mike Britton]

Some do have remorse though...

Such a good observation, since lack of remorse isn't mutually inclusive to an act of violence. There are many factors that can lead to unpredictable behavior. Even a damaged ego can be a massive blow to someone who is already suffering from a personality disorder, or a young person with limited life experience. Any assumption of insanity or otherwise is based purely on LE's perp being a psychopath, and this a random kill-spree.

It's just as possible the perp is considering getting help due to the immense weight of guilt heaped directly on him. He may not be a psychopath or a sociopath.

 

[IceIce9]

That sounds familiar, which case?

Richmond Hill

 

[Nadal]

Such a good observation, since lack of remorse isn't mutually inclusive to an act of violence. There are many factors that can lead to unpredictable behavior. Even a damaged ego can be a massive blow to someone who is already suffering from a personality disorder, or a young person with limited life experience. Any assumption of insanity or otherwise is based purely on LE's perp being a psychopath, and this a random kill-spree.

It's just as possible the perp is considering getting help due to the immense weight of guilt heaped directly on him. He may not be a psychopath or a sociopath.

Yeah, i think it's more likely he has no or little empathy but that shouldn't be assumed as fact when we know so little.

Another example is Jerry Michael Williams. Screw Brian for what he did he definitely didn't deserve to skate free but divorced of that i think he was completely genuine in how broken up he was and how much it had been eating at him for years. That's another example of selfishness overruling basic morality and the person deeply regretting it. Again i personally don't think BG feels remorse over this but we should never think we have anything figured out and only follow theories matching up with that assumption when we know next to nothing.

 

[Nadal]

Richmond Hill

Damn, i was expecting a murder genuinely thought Richmond Hill was the name of a victim. I'm not from America and i don't think it made international news so i must have missed that.

 

[Mike Britton]

Another example is Jerry Michael Williams.

Crimes of passion! They don't excuse the crime, or remove the possibility our perp was delusional.

 

[Krwiley60]

IMO I think the idea of BG being possibly left handed stems from long ago and if you think you see the outline of a hand gun in his right pocket which he would have removed with his left hand.

Most people use their dominant hand to shoot so if it is a gun on his right side, which I don’t think it is, he would be right handed. I’m right handed and my gun is always on my right side.

 

[Nadal]

Most people use their dominant hand to shoot so if it is a gun on his right side, which I don’t think it is, he would be right handed. I’m right handed and my gun is always on my right side.

Was genuinely about to say the same thing when i first read that comment, but i think kc1023 was talking about right from our perspective so his left hand pocket is what they meant. Correct me if i'm wrong of course kc1023.

 

[moonlessnight]

no. not insane. possible para-phrenia, but not in a "snapped" way. More in a long slow progression of deepening anger, paranoia, and delusions of grandeur creating the need for revenge typical to narcissism and psychopathy/antisocial and possible borderline personality disorder. the link between distorted beliefs and perceptions in NPD and psychopathy do not reach to true psychosis, so not psychotic enough to be insane - not schizophrenic, but certainly not a healthy person.

Paraphrenia - Wikipedia

I don't think I stated "not guilty by reason of insanity" did I? The link I quoted actually mentions the same case you quote so I don't understand your point.

I am asking if posters think BG is insane?

 

[sunshineray]

ive gotten really behind on this thread!
just reading some posts back a bit about targeted verses non targeted.

if it wasn't targeted specifically to libby and abby imo if BG went there with murderous random intentions you would have to think he had put some thought into the location and picked somewhere he knows BUT would NOT BE ASSOCIATED with or recognised.

if it was targeted to libby and abby THERE HAS TO BE breadcrumbs.

(this post doesn't even count the audio or video!)

moo

Breadcrumbs, that's a great analogy but a tricky one too. Say you're following a suspect on a clear trail of breadcrumbs though the woods, then they just stop, a dead end. What to do? So you walk another 100 feet straight ahead on the old trail's course and find the breadcrumb trail resumes. Awesome right? Unless they are now someone else's breadcrumbs, someone who came in from a side trail in that 100 feet of nothing and started dropping their own crumbs. Even if in your gut you really believe the new trail may be from the original crumb dropper suspect, you could be right but that dead end could make it very difficult in court to convict your suspect beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Plausible deniability has been in the back of my mind since the beginning. Any DNA from the scene rather than on the girls or any touch/transfer DNA on the girls themselves could easily be written off.

I'd imagine most people would happily confess to trespassing if it meant not getting questioned in a murder. Anyone who visited or worked for RL. Anyone searching for the girls. Anyone who had visited the families' homes or been in one of the families' vehicles the girls had ridden in recently. They'd all have an excuse for why their DNA was anywhere close to the girls.



I wonder how many searches were going on those days? AFAIK, there was only one highly publicized search on Bicycle Rd, and I don't think LE intended for it to be made so public and let the press know as much. I'm guessing there were a lot more low key searches going on in the background we never heard about. It's been my feeling all along that RL wasn't ever on LE's radar for being a suspect, but he was easy to keep media attention on, allowing them to work elsewhere without the public finding out.

I have a feeling the bomb threat was either a distraction by LE to keep media there instead of elsewhere or to allow them to search and speak with tons of people in the area without it looking like it was related to the case. I'm also not sure how accommodating a huge plant like that would be to LE. Presumably it would halt or slow production a significant amount and cost a ton in lost revenue.

The boots were interesting. Does anyone know if the company requires employees on the processing floor to wear a specific boot or if they are provided by the plant? It may have been taken to rule out as the source of tracks left at the scene. You would have thought if they were a specific employee's boots, it would have been made very public in a hurry.

There was another publicized search in Peru in late February 2017. This search did not result in any connections to the Delphi case.

February 25, 2017
FBI searches Peru home regarding Delphi homicides, nothing found

You make a really good point about LE possibly trying to keep the media from getting wind of other searches that may have been going on.

I presume that they would have used any tactic possible in order to follow-up on tips that were coming in, and the idea of them trying to do it covertly makes sense, especially if a search warrant was involved.

There was so much media attention back then (there still is!), that people on social media were quick to jump on anything and everything to try and connect it to this case.

I cannot answer with any certainty about the boots and what the Plants requirements are....but LE attempting to match them to tracks at the crime scene makes the most sense to me.

I have always wondered if there was more than one set of tracks and if they were able to measure the distance between the prints to check his stride to see what the killers possible height could be.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I don't think he has paranoid schizophrenia or some other severe mental illness that would largely remove personal responsibility. I think he would have been caught by now if so, this attack happening then him somehow getting away in that state to medicate or whatever to restore his control is just way too perfect. And if this was a permanent state i imagine he would've went on a Richard Chase/Herbert Mullin like spree. There's no way he wouldn't have been caught or other local crimes wouldn't have happened.

Personally i think he's sociopathic or psychopathic which is a mental illness but obviously not what you were going for in your question.

He could turn out to be a troubled young man being protected after the fact by his parents or grandparents. If BG is a loner type who rarely leaves the home, he could not be on any medication at all. I just keep going back to that feeling I have when viewing the BG video. He's either got headphones in listening and singing along or he's talking to himself, maybe talking himself into his near future actions. I tend to think it's the later by watching his face up close.

 

[Boxer]

I don't think he has paranoid schizophrenia or some other severe mental illness that would largely remove personal responsibility. I think he would have been caught by now if so, this attack happening then him somehow getting away in that state to medicate or whatever to restore his control is just way too perfect. And if this was a permanent state i imagine he would've went on a Richard Chase/Herbert Mullin like spree. There's no way he wouldn't have been caught or other local crimes wouldn't have happened.

Personally i think he's sociopathic or psychopathic which is a mental illness but obviously not what you were going for in your question.

No worries about insanity plea in Indiana, only insanity plea is "guilty but insane"
Means the convicted killer can be sent to locked institution until stabilized enough to start serving their full sentence in regular prison.

 

[tresir2012]

Most people use their dominant hand to shoot so if it is a gun on his right side, which I don’t think it is, he would be right handed. I’m right handed and my gun is always on my right side.

I agree however it looks like the butt is facing his left side almost as if he would draw it out with his left hand across his midriff IMO. If you look at the gun impression ( or what we think is the gun impression) in his right hand jacket pocket, it almost looks like the gun is moving with his walking motion IMO.

 

[stargazer17]

I agree however it looks like the butt is facing his left side almost as if he would draw it out with his left hand across his midriff IMO. If you look at the gun impression ( or what we think is the gun impression) in his right hand jacket pocket, it almost looks like the gun is moving with his walking motion IMO.

maybe its an inside pocket where he would reach for it with his left hand?

 

[Boxer]

I agree however it looks like the butt is facing his left side almost as if he would draw it out with his left hand across his midriff IMO. If you look at the gun impression ( or what we think is the gun impression) in his right hand jacket pocket, it almost looks like the gun is moving with his walking motion IMO.

MOO I think he just put the gun into his jacket pocket heavy end 1st.
He would draw it out exactly the same way he put it in, by the barrel.
Pulling put would just be the reverse; pulling it out by barrel, grabbing it momentarily with both hands and settling the gun into whatever hand he shoots with.