Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #113

[TheVisual]

In the background the trail is straight for several hundred feet, then would have a gradual turn to fhe left, the spot where the girls were dropped off is on the curve. Then the trail heads west paralleling C. R. 300.

My hunch is the girls passed BG on the trail, which is about a quarter mile long. He already knew noone was ahead of the girls, and Kelsi mentioned in recent months noone was at the parking area/drop off point. So BG was, in my words, loitering and waiting for someone to follow and eventually attack.

JMO

-FD

I thought Kelsi had said that there were others at the park. Did they all park at the other parking spot near the other bridge or did they walk from town?

 

[BNA]

I thought Kelsi had said that there were others at the park. Did they all park at the other parking spot near the other bridge or did they walk from town?

You recall correctly. And, this is what makes me think that something more than walks in the park on a nice day was going on out there that day.

 

[Falling Down]

I thought Kelsi had said that there were others at the park. Did they all park at the other parking spot near the other bridge or did they walk from town?

I'm not following the last sentence of your post.

Kelsi said a while ago people were there when she dropped off the girls. When asked more recently about it, over this past last Spring or Summer, she said no one was there. Makes sense to me, considering it appears few witnesses saw BG before the murders.


JMO

-FD

 

[ScumbagTrav]

Picture of it is in the image thread. Go to image thread and search for "deer stand".

Found it, thanks.

But im still not sure after seeing the image(s) that it is/was the alleged deer stand in the photograph that was circled red. Am i missing something?

 

[ScumbagTrav]

If he was loitering, he would have been noticed and found long ago.

I would bet my last dollar he knew what time they would be there and walked in and walked out.

If he were loitering, why would he been noticed and found?

I only ask because trained FBI profiler, Jim Clemente, said on his podcast that BG likely did wait for his victim(s)

"I don’t think he could have known, they couldn't have been targeted victims, I don’t think he could have known that they were going to be there. I think he setup his trap and they fell into it. But I think he had to get them to a particular place so he could have privacy to do what he wanted."

And

"In this case, I think Abby and Libby just happened to walk by and fall into this guys trap. When people are victim hunting, they are looking for vulnerability, availability, and desirability. And at times the desirability factor is just anybody who is available and vulnerable."

122 | Worst Case Scenario: The Delphi Murders from Best Case Worst Case

 

[Cutiekitty]

2:30 on video is what we assume, but he may have been on the bridge by 2:10.

This is true.

 

[distracted]

Could be something like a visual version of confirmation bias. My understanding of confirmation bias is, for example, if we lean conservative and follow more conservative media, it deepens our conservative nature. If we are liberal leaning and follow more liberal media we are likely to have our liberalism reinforced. Hence the widening of the divide. (We go to the media that reinforces our beliefs... We're not all watching Walter Cronkite anymore). So perhaps, having looked at the pic of BG on the bridge so much (as we all have scrutinized him, endlessly) it makes you see an image in the shadows of the bridge pic of Abby that makes you think of BG.

You are suggesting that people are incapable of independent thought.

 

[Cutiekitty]

If he were loitering, why would he been noticed and found?

I only ask because trained FBI profiler, Jim Clemente, said on his podcast that BG likely did wait for his victim(s)

"I don’t think he could have known, they couldn't have been targeted victims, I don’t think he could have known that they were going to be there. I think he setup his trap and they fell into it. But I think he had to get them to a particular place so he could have privacy to do what he wanted."

And

"In this case, I think Abby and Libby just happened to walk by and fall into this guys trap. When people are victim hunting, they are looking for vulnerability, availability, and desirability. And at times the desirability factor is just anybody who is available and vulnerable."

122 | Worst Case Scenario: The Delphi Murders from Best Case Worst Case

Dbm

 

[moonlessnight]

I don't know where or what a deer stand is/was. I guess the question is, was this BG? If not, what was it a shadow of, and where did BG come from? It makes way too much sense to me that BG came out of the woods and onto the bridge at about the time/place that Libby took Abby's picture on the bridge. Creeps me out thinking that they saw him come out of nowhere and entering the bridge at that point. he would have been behind them the whole time they were crossing, and they would have been trying to get to the other side to get away, but they didn't get to the other side in time to run into the woods and away fro m him towards the roads and houses. He timed his walk across the bridge perfectly to get to them before they got to the south side and back on land. I think they knew he was after them as soon as Libby took that picture, and that something was seriously wrong, hence the video while Libby waited for Abby to get across. I think he was watching and waiting for them on the north end of the bridge, and no one saw him on the trails before the murders, or after. I think only one witness saw him at another location before and/or after the murders. This makes it ore apparent this was planned and premeditated with precision and the girls had more awareness of present danger than it might have seemed.

Yes that was where I was looking. He's not in the deer stand is he?

 

[moonlessnight]

this link has pictures of a man standing at 100 feet, 250 feet, 500 feet, and 1000 feet away from a property line. the pictures on the right are actual distances away and on the left are close ups of the man at that distance. Based on the size of the man in the pictures on the right, it's very possible for BG to have been as large as he appears in Abby's bridge photo if he was between 100-175 feet away, which seems reasonable given he is only 3 platforms away from them. not sure how many feet between platforms.
The Geography of Punishment - 1,000 Feet is Further Than You Think

 

[moonlessnight]

and at 45 seconds in this link the man is standing 200 feet away from the video camera on flat land or maybe down a slight grade. 70 big steps for a grown man ends up at 200 feet.
this makes me think if the shadow is BG, 100-150 feet away from Abby seems about right.

 

[Falling Down]

this link has pictures of a man standing at 100 feet, 250 feet, 500 feet, and 1000 feet away from a property line. the pictures on the right are actual distances away and on the left are close ups of the man at that distance. Based on the size of the man in the pictures on the right, it's very possible for BG to have been as large as he appears in Abby's bridge photo if he was between 100-175 feet away, which seems reasonable given he is only 3 platforms away from them. not sure how many feet between platforms.
The Geography of Punishment - 1,000 Feet is Further Than You Think

The "BG is back in the woods" deal has been debunked by MSM and other sources. I don't know why this is coming up, again.

Besides, why would Libby include a random person in the background of a photo she was taking of Abby?

Not trying to be snarky or what have you, but this has been discussed here ad nauseum.

 

[somequestions]

Could be something like a visual version of confirmation bias. My understanding of confirmation bias is, for example, if we lean conservative and follow more conservative media, it deepens our conservative nature. If we are liberal leaning and follow more liberal media we are likely to have our liberalism reinforced. Hence the widening of the divide. (We go to the media that reinforces our beliefs... We're not all watching Walter Cronkite anymore). So perhaps, having looked at the pic of BG on the bridge so much (as we all have scrutinized him, endlessly) it makes you see an image in the shadows of the bridge pic of Abby that makes you think of BG.

You are suggesting that people are incapable of independent thought.

I think many times people do not realize they are falling into confirmation bias which makes it so hard to detect. People think they are making rational decisions based on independent thinking. It is kind of an illusion that people fall into.

One time I came out to my car at night in a lighted parking lot. I walked up to get into my car only to realize that I was at the wrong car. Everything looked the same to me, color, body, and size. However, it was a totally different make and model vehicle!

Confirmation bias can happen to anyone. We can lead ourselves to believe just about anything if we try hard enough and if we can confirm in our minds that we are following the right facts and evidence. But the illusion comes from not realizing that at the time we are making the decision our minds are leading us down the wrong path.

And when we finally realize our mistake we feel like complete fools about it. In my opinion, that is my definition of confirmation bias.

 

[distracted]

I think many times people do not realize they are falling into confirmation bias which makes it so hard to detect. People think they are making rational decisions based on independent thinking. It is kind of an illusion that people fall into.

One time I came out to my car at night in a lighted parking lot. I walked up to get into my car only to realize that I was at the wrong car. Everything looked the same to me, color, body, and size. However, it was a totally different make and model vehicle!

Confirmation bias can happen to anyone. We can lead ourselves to believe just about anything if we try hard enough and if we can confirm in our minds that we are following the right facts and evidence. But the illusion comes from not realizing that at the time we are making the decision our minds are leading us down the wrong path.

And when we finally realize our mistake we feel like complete fools about it. In my opinion, that is my definition of confirmation bias.

Respectfully, what you described was simply mistaking another car for your car.

This is the definition of "confirmation bias" quoted from Britannica -
Confirmation bias, the tendency to process information by looking for, or interpreting, information that is consistent with one's existing beliefs.

The problem I have with the first post, aside from politics being dragged in, is that it presumes one cannot form an independent thought, which is absurd.

ETA: This will be my last comment on the subject so we can get back to Libby and Abby.

 

[tresir2012]

The "BG is back in the woods" deal has been debunked by MSM and other sources. I don't know why this is coming up, again.

Besides, why would Libby include a random person in the background of a photo she was taking of Abby?

Not trying to be snarky or what have you, but this has been discussed here ad nauseum.

Thanks for posting that. At 5.54 in the video, Gray zooms in right up to the barriers and the dark section being discussed turns out to be a large fir tree, which is dark green. That is why it shows up dark in the picture against all the deciduous trees that have lost their leaves.

 

[moonlessnight]

GH is not the end all when it comes to "facts" about this case.

GH is using videos that other people took after the fact, therefore nothing about the photo Libby took of Abby can be "debunked" bc it is not the photo being addressed in his videos but other people's videos made later from different angles.

The areas in the bridge vicinity GH is discussing are not the part of the image I am concerned with. In fact, what I see in Libby's photo is not visible in any of the subsequent videos, hence it was probably not a shadow and was instead an object that moved out of the frame after the photo was taken.

And no, it is not an evergreen tree that I am concerned with. nor is it the poles at the entrance to the bridge. I circled the area I am concerned about in the pdf I posted, so there should be no confusion about what I'm looking at.


Libby would include a random person in a picture of Abby if she didn't know it was there. photobomb.

The "BG is back in the woods" deal has been debunked by MSM and other sources. I don't know why this is coming up, again.

Besides, why would Libby include a random person in the background of a photo she was taking of Abby?

Not trying to be snarky or what have you, but this has been discussed here ad nauseum.

 

[tresir2012]

GH is not the end all when it comes to "facts" about this case.

GH is using videos that other people took after the fact, therefore nothing about the photo Libby took of Abby can be "debunked" bc it is not the photo being addressed in his videos but other people's videos made later from different angles.

The areas in the bridge vicinity GH is discussing are not the part of the image I am concerned with. In fact, what I see in Libby's photo is not visible in any of the subsequent videos, hence it was probably not a shadow and was instead an object that moved out of the frame after the photo was taken.

And no, it is not an evergreen tree that I am concerned with. nor is it the poles at the entrance to the bridge. I circled the area I am concerned about in the pdf I posted, so there should be no confusion about what I'm looking at.


Libby would include a random person in a picture of Abby if she didn't know it was there. photobomb.

Did you watch the video and see the section I referred to? The dark shape you circled is also visible in the whole of this GH/JM video.

You said "I guess the question is, was this BG? If not, what was it a shadow of, and where did BG come from?"

So I am now satisfied the shape you circled is the tree that I am seeing anyway, so I am not confused. After all, facts are facts, whereas this is opinion and we can have differing ones.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I don't know until today, if BG could enter the bridge only near the pols (like Abby/Libby) or could he have entered the railroad track also at another point without being a climbing expert?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

View attachment 207467

Source unknown.

See the orange arrow. Looks also like a person for me.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I wonder, if the killer used something like that in the woods to wait for his victims: