Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #113

[FrostedGlass]

As for the girls being targeted, Bursten said in the Feb 22, 2017 press conference:

"One of two things happened, it was a chance encounter, that's possible, .. don't think it's likely but it's possible, or that person knew that they were going to be there, that's possible as well"

 

[susiQ]

As for the girls being targeted, Bursten said in the Feb 22, 2017 press conference:

"One of two things happened, it was a chance encounter, that's possible, .. don't think it's likely but it's possible, or that person knew that they were going to be there, that's possible as well"

If I were a gambling man, my money would be on number two!

 

[tresir2012]

It's probably a good time to post this again as we have a lull and a lot of new posters. It has a lot of info straight from the family and shows how it came about that the girls went to the trails that day. Watching this again makes it seem difficult anyone would know that they were even there to be targeted. There are a lot of great stills of Abby and Libby, good background info too.

 

[sunshineray]

It isnt random. Nobody has any idea what theyre talking about thinking it was some random attack. People assume it was random because one of the girls took a video of the supposed perp but the truth is she was taking pictures and having her phone out probably the entire time.

I'm wondering about the school system there in the Delphi area. Are the schools huge and regional or more intimate with only very local kids together? For example: Would all the 13-14 year olds whose homes are in Delphi be together in one Junior High, two Junior Highs or mixed with other towns in Carroll County? Are ALL Delphi girls of that same age are in the same school? Certain things in the news recently have made me think it's very possible that Abby and Libby could have become aware of something in another family via a school friend and possibly that could have gotten the girl's targeted? Just trying to theorizing senarios within the girl's social structure in Delphi.

 

[tresir2012]

I'm wondering about the school system there in the Delphi area. Are the schools huge and regional or more intimate with only very local kids together? For example: Would all the 13-14 year olds whose homes are in Delphi be together in one Junior High, two Junior Highs or mixed with other towns in Carroll County? Are ALL Delphi girls of that same age are in the same school? Certain things in the news recently have made me think it's very possible that Abby and Libby could have become aware of something in another family via a school friend and possibly that could have gotten the girl's targeted? Just trying to theorizing senarios within the girl's social structure in Delphi.

I'm not certain but I think Flora schoolkids also go to Delphi schools. There are also inter school sports so teams visit other schools in the state. Both girls played school sports and were in the band. Have a look at the video I just posted which is helpful as it covers the sports they were involved with.

 

[Charlot123]

If I were a gambling man, my money would be on number two!

And if we assume they were tracked, could this fact alone limit the pool of suspects?

The phone itself is a walking GPS, and if we even consider non-random version of events, then either the girls were tracked when they posted something on MSM about their plans, or even via Snapchat picture if it had coordinates, or via the phone.

Libby’s phone was malfunctioning the day before, and she had to do factory reset. Is it possible that someone was trying to track her? Install some program, via a link, maybe? And this is why it was malfunctioning?

This is important to answer, IMO, because at this point in time, we don’t even know which of the girls could be the potential target. However, Abby did not have the phone, so maybe, Libby? (If we assume they were targeted?)

And if the perp a random man, who for some reason was interested in her, how well does he have to know the technology to be tracking her? He probably needs to have some hacking abilities? Some specific interests?

Then, if we are thinking about Delphi area, maybe the person’s interests are not only hunting or fishing, but computer technologies, too? That could narrow the circle of potential suspects. (Or, he had to have rapid access to the girls’ SM. Or even, both computer interests + have access to their media).

(ETA) and if in addition, he uses left hand as dominant for some motor activities (LE probably knows it), not necessarily for writing, but for sports, or fishing/hunting, this could be an additional factor. Not sure we can tell it from the photo, though.

 

[JnRyan]

Regarding LE believing this killer is local, I have my doubts he CURRENTLY lives in the area. To the best of my knowledge, none of the witnesses stated they had seen him before on the trail. Of course, this could have been his first time there in a year or two and he wasn't a frequent visitor. But if he was currently local, I would have thought a witness would have stated they had seen him before at fast food place, a diner, a grocery store or some other place.
Yet it would appear that he has been to the trail before and apparently more than once before in order to know about the property at the end and below the bridge. And crossing the creek to get to the cemetery. I think it is very likely this killer does not live in the general area - within 30-40 miles - BUT lived or visited relatives there when he was in middle school or earlier. I believe if he attended high school there he would likely have been recognized by now.
That is my most likely theory, but not my only one.
What if this is someone who likes to visit trails throughout the northern KY, IN and even IL areas? I wonder if there is an association, group or even a Facebook group of trail hikers? If so, could he be in there?
Then there is the over 40K in tips. I can't recall a case with such a massive volume of tips and still have them coming in over 2 years later. That is a tribute to a joint effort of LE, YouTubers and the families combined. Yet with such a volume of tips even with today's database software it can unmanageable. I doubt if even the best database software developers envisioned having to manage such a volume. I believe there is a very real possibility that he is in there somewhere. Someone called it in and for whatever reason it didn't result in a strong enough interest from LE. If that is the case the tipster hasn't likely called it in again, probably assuming LE properly and thoroughly looked at the person and cleared them.

 

[Charlot123]

Regarding LE believing this killer is local, I have my doubts he CURRENTLY lives in the area. To the best of my knowledge, none of the witnesses stated they had seen him before on the trail. Of course, this could have been his first time there in a year or two and he wasn't a frequent visitor. But if he was currently local, I would have thought a witness would have stated they had seen him before at fast food place, a diner, a grocery store or some other place.
Yet it would appear that he has been to the trail before and apparently more than once before in order to know about the property at the end and below the bridge. And crossing the creek to get to the cemetery. I think it is very likely this killer does not live in the general area - within 30-40 miles - BUT lived or visited relatives there when he was in middle school or earlier. I believe if he attended high school there he would likely have been recognized by now.
That is my most likely theory, but not my only one.
What if this is someone who likes to visit trails throughout the northern KY, IN and even IL areas? I wonder if there is an association, group or even a Facebook group of trail hikers? If so, could he be in there?
Then there is the over 40K in tips. I can't recall a case with such a massive volume of tips and still have them coming in over 2 years later. That is a tribute to a joint effort of LE, YouTubers and the families combined. Yet with such a volume of tips even with today's database software it can unmanageable. I doubt if even the best database software developers envisioned having to manage such a volume. I believe there is a very real possibility that he is in there somewhere. Someone called it in and for whatever reason it didn't result in a strong enough interest from LE. If that is the case the tipster hasn't likely called it in again, probably assuming LE properly and thoroughly looked at the person and cleared them.

Group hikers, bridge hunters (there is such a site). Or possibly, someone who attended the school, then moved out to go to college, out of the state, and never returned back? So his link to the Delphi area was 10 years ago?

ETA: re the tips. It could have been an early tip, when their POI was assumed to be someone else. Or, on the contrary, a late one, but he does not look like their current sketch. Anything, being out of the age range, for example, might get him off the radar.

 

[JnRyan]

(ETA) and if in addition, he uses left hand as dominant for some motor activities (LE probably knows it), not necessarily for writing, but for sports, or fishing/hunting, this could be an additional factor. Not sure we can tell it from the photo, though.

Having been an archery instructor, I know it most likely the other way around. Many left handed persons write or use tools left handed or even use their left hand primarily when fishing like when casting. However, when shooting a bow or a firearm they do it like a right handed person because they are right eye dominant. My father was one such person. He did everything left handed, EXCEPT shooting a gun because his right eye was his dominant eye. If this guy does look like he has a small gun in his right front pocket it doesn't necessarily mean we can rule out a left handed person.

 

[JnRyan]

Group hikers, bridge hunters (there is such a site). Or possibly, someone who attended the school, then moved out to go to college, out of the state, and never returned back? So his link to the Delphi area was 10 years ago?

10 years ago. Yes, I think that is a good possibility. He may have never lived there, but spent holidays and summers visiting an aunt/uncle, grandparent or a divorced parent. Such a person might recognize him, but they might be deceased.

 

[Charlot123]

Having been an archery instructor, I know it most likely the other way around. Many left handed persons write or use tools left handed or even use their left hand primarily when fishing like when casting. However, when shooting a bow or a firearm they do it like a right handed person because they are right eye dominant. My father was one such person. He did everything left handed, EXCEPT shooting a gun because his right eye was his dominant eye. If this guy does look like he has a small gun in his right front pocket it doesn't necessarily mean we can rule out a left handed person.

True, and according to the latest article I posted, 70% are strongly R-hand dominant, 20% ambidextrous (mixed), 10% - strongly L-handed. So he may be in the 20% group.

 

[MJPeony]

Re: the targeted vs. non-targeted...

I still lean towards targeted. One of things that is frequently brought up/assumed is that if targeted, it had to do with online activities or tracking of some kind. And many speculate that therefore not likely- because LE would have looked at that, it would have been easy to track, the girls only decided to go to the bridge that morning, etc.

But even though the girls seemingly decided to go to the bridge only that morning, there are a variety of other reasonable ways the perp would have had knowledge or suspicions they'd be there.

A current theory of mine at this point (if targeted), is that people in their friend group or at school/sports could have been talking about the bridge earlier that week- and discussing possible plans to go there on their day off. Countless numbers of people could have been privy to those conversations. Anyone who overheard it, who spoke to others who had mentioned it, etc. Did not require any sort of electronic tracking or catfishing.

Could have been just that the perp knew they were considering being there, and banking on the opportunity. Heck, he could have been the one throwing out the suggestion. Then BG could have been waiting near the drop-off point knowing the possibility the girls would show up.

After-all, if it was targeted, BG would have had some sort of plan (by definition- was not a spur of the moment thing if targeted). And that plan could have been to choose the bridge location b/c of remoteness and his familiarity, and then to take advantage of the next time they'd be in that area.

Just a theory I'm contemplating. MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

10 years ago. Yes, I think that is a good possibility. He may have never lived there, but spent holidays and summers visiting an aunt/uncle, grandparent or a divorced parent. Such a person might recognize him, but they might be deceased.

Or, another possibility. He did go to Delphi school. Saw Abby and Libby. Probably, was in high school at the time. But moved out of state to attend a college. He may be in college now, and does not plan to ever return back upon graduation. And he is off the radar, being a quiet, nice kid with good grades.

 

[sunshineray]

And if we assume they were tracked, could this fact alone limit the pool of suspects?

The phone itself is a walking GPS, and if we even consider non-random version of events, then either the girls were tracked when they posted something on MSM about their plans, or even via Snapchat picture if it had coordinates, or via the phone.

Libby’s phone was malfunctioning the day before, and she had to do factory reset. Is it possible that someone was trying to track her? Install some program, via a link, maybe? And this is why it was malfunctioning?

This is important to answer, IMO, because at this point in time, we don’t even know which of the girls could be the potential target. However, Abby did not have the phone, so maybe, Libby? (If we assume they were targeted?)

And if the perp a random man, who for some reason was interested in her, how well does he have to know the technology to be tracking her? He probably needs to have some hacking abilities? Some specific interests?

Then, if we are thinking about Delphi area, maybe the person’s interests are not only hunting or fishing, but computer technologies, too? That could narrow the circle of potential suspects. (Or, he had to have rapid access to the girls’ SM. Or even, both computer interests + have access to their media).

(ETA) and if in addition, he uses left hand as dominant for some motor activities (LE probably knows it), not necessarily for writing, but for sports, or fishing/hunting, this could be an additional factor. Not sure we can tell it from the photo, though.

Does anyone know if both girls were very active on social media sites? I know it's been mentioned Abby had a FB account on the sly. I gather Snapchat is a big thing also but what exactly is the premise of that. None of the pictures someone posts stay on the platform, ever? What's the draw for that age group to use that? Wouldn't they want their pictures to stay on a FB type platform for all to see?

 

[TL4S]

Does anyone know if both girls were very active on social media sites? I know it's been mentioned Abby had a FB account on the sly. I gather Snapchat is a big thing also but what exactly is the premise of that. None of the pictures someone posts stay on the platform, ever? What's the draw for that age group to use that? Wouldn't they want their pictures to stay on a FB type platform for all to see?

Something curious to me in the court documents is that LG's family filed for data access in 10/17, while AW's wasn't until 2/18. Why a 4 month difference? Did something happen between those dates that made them want to look deeper into A's data? And wouldn't LE have already had access to all that, or not?

 

[MJPeony]

Does anyone know if both girls were very active on social media sites? I know it's been mentioned Abby had a FB account on the sly. I gather Snapchat is a big thing also but what exactly is the premise of that. None of the pictures someone posts stay on the platform, ever? What's the draw for that age group to use that? Wouldn't they want their pictures to stay on a FB type platform for all to see?

I can't speak for how active they both were or weren't on SM (LG at least has been shown to have had several SM accounts however), but in terms of what the draw is for Snapchat, it's primarily just a way for this age group to stay in contact with each other. Basically takes the place of texting (source: I have several tweens/teens of my own ). The photo element of it is kind of extraneous, and more of a way to talk "face to face". The photos generally aren't ones people would want to save.

So whereas people in my age-group tend to use texting to quickly communicate, this age group uses Snapchat. And another upside to some is that it's NOT saved. Communications are quick and private. The privacy isn't all that important to a lot of them, but to some it would be I think.

MOO.

 

[da fino]

more notes on snapchat...

i don't know about the snapchat features available at the time of the crime, but certainly sure that in the last year or maybe more, one feature on snapchat would have allowed users to see another users current location on a map.

you can also save snaps, or create stories that do not disappear after they are viewed.

another convenient feature of snapchat is that when you are using the app, it opens directly to the camera so that you can immediately capture a picture or video. seems like a pretty good possibility that this is how the video of the perp was captured.

 

[JnRyan]

If I were a gambling man, my money would be on number two!

I wouldn't. BUT I can't rule it out either. What are the chances that a killer shows up on the trail with what he will need to commit murder and not having planned something like this? For that reason - even though I believe the chances are small that he targeted those specific girls - I can't rule it out.
Also, if he showed up on the trail to kill SOMEONE, ANYONE, just first person or persons he considered likely victims, do we consider this targeted?
If this were a spur of the moment encounter, maybe he either saw the girls dropped off and considered them likely victims even though that isn't why he was there. Or he saw them on the trail and went back to car for what he needed. I still believe that second one is a strong possibility. Why? For some reason, Liberty felt a need to get this killer on video. Did them see him earlier on the trail and get a bad vibe then?

 

[FinePrint]

I don't know if I'm alone here but lately when WS is slow and I can't get on the thread I start to panic and think maybe its because something big has happened in this case and the system just can't handle the amount of posting...I quickly check online sources to see if something is going on in Delphi!!

I guess its just hopeful thinking on my part... I suppose that when the day does come it will break the internet!!!

 

[Blue Amethyst]

I am sure nobody can answer this but I have always been curious about the 42000 tips. Do you think maybe 10000 came in on one guy and 6000 on another guy and a couple thousand on the same person here or there? I wonder if the people of Delphi were worried about certain people.