Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #114

[Deleted member 102539]

"When this investigation is concluded I surmise that it may be a shock to our community once they learn the identity."

To say this without knowing the suspect, would be quite ridiculous, IMO. They think, they know the "monster" and I want them to be right and sure of it ASAP.

 

[tresir2012]

Have you ever seen a law enforcement sketch that looked anything beyond kinda maybe accurate in retrospect?

Yes. This one looks remarkably like one of my POI's, eerily so. Rather like OBG sketch looked eerily like an old POI. Not sure what is going on and LE need to give an update on the investigation.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes, but it's being super analyzed (under the microscope you might say) by the people locally looking for ANY similarities. If it's so far off that no one recognizes anything about him then it must not be even close.

I think, the NBG sketch is rather lifelike, but whom recognizes him, doesn't believe, it could ever be the person. MOO
If only the locals/non-locals would call in to LE some tiny details they know, despite their great doubt (anonymous, if necessary).
FBI TIP HOTLINE, (844) 459-5786. TIP BY EMAIL, [email protected]

 

[Mike Britton]

BG is protected by the video, which shows him looking like a chubby middle-aged man. He's also protected by our natural aversion to attributing an evil act to a very young person. We hesitate to look at the next door neighbor's kid and believe him capable of this. We watch him on the playing field, making tackles. We see his picture in the paper as he's presented with an award. That's all we feel we need to see, and this offender is counting on that.

 

[SilentRogue]

Yes. This one looks remarkably like one of my POI's, eerily so. Rather like OBG sketch looked eerily like an old POI. Not sure what is going on and LE need to give an update on the investigation.

As much as you value your POI, I dont have much stock in it considering you (like everyone not personally involved in the police investigation) are invariably limited in both tools available (legal, general information, and technical) and case specific information.

I know people don't like to hear it, but a sketch isn't even evidence. Its unreliable at best, and inaccurate at worst.

Further, I'd rather not see an update than see another press conference out of desperation like April, 2019.

At this point, the public at large has given what they can. Memories have lapsed and recollection has faded

This case is going to be solved by one or more of few things:

1) Someone deciding to finally come forward and make a disclosure they hadn't previously made;

2) Law enforcement making a break through based on information they already have;

3) Assailant confessing to law enforcement or a third-party who subsequently reports the statement to law enforcement;

3a) Assailant being caught for another crime, and subsequently confessing to being the man commonly referred to as BG.

Public appeal has done it's job, and it very likely won't do anything else. Another update serves to satisfy the curious, but this case is more than a story that we need an ending to. It's an investigation of a double murder for two young girls, who deserve justice.

I don't care for an update unless they're announcing an arrest.

 

[susiQ]

As much as you value your POI, I dont have much stock in it considering you (like everyone not personally involved in the police investigation) are invariably limited in both tools available (legal, general information, and technical) and case specific information.

I know people don't like to hear it, but a sketch isn't even evidence. Its unreliable at best, and inaccurate at worst.

Further, I'd rather not see an update than see another press conference out of desperation like April, 2019.

At this point, the public at large has given what they can. Memories have lapsed and recollection has faded

This case is going to be solved by one or more of few things:

1) Someone deciding to finally come forward and make a disclosure they hadn't previously made;

2) Law enforcement making a break through based on information they already have;

3) Assailant confessing to law enforcement or a third-party who subsequently reports the statement to law enforcement;

3a) Assailant being caught for another crime, and subsequently confessing to being the man commonly referred to as BG.

Public appeal has done it's job, and it very likely won't do anything else. Another update serves to satisfy the curious, but this case is more than a story that we need an ending to. It's an investigation of a double murder for two young girls, who deserve justice.

I don't care for an update unless they're announcing an arrest.

Thanks for listing the options! Door #2 for the win IMHO

eta: Door #1 is a close second

 

[SilentRogue]

Thanks for listing the options! Door #2 for the win IMHO

eta: Door #1 is a close second

My money is on 3(a).

This crime doesn't seem personal. He killed two able bodied, reasonably mobile young girls in one brazen attack. That in and of itself is too risky for a killer who simply wanted to send a message to one girl, or her family.

Further, continuing on the above, this man was comfortable. Why? What made him so sure he could pull this off? I've been trained to control captives in a controlled environment (military detainees). Even then, I'd take certain precautions that simply aren't available in the open world (such as a battle buddy, pre-movement screening and restraint) scene these crimes were committed.

In my amateur opinion, this killer was comfortable in a very high risk situation.

I'd speculate that comfort can only come from experience, unless there is some major detail about this scene that hasn't been released relative to his ability to control the victims.

Barring that detail, the comfort displayed leads me to believe he has experience. Lots of experience.

I don't believe this was his first or will be his last. I'm hopeful his comfort will be his downfall in a future crime.

With his downfall, I'm hopeful that he (likely out of pride) will confess to other crimes he's been involved in - like the Delphi murders.

I'd liken this killer to Israel Keyes.

Disclosure: My opinion only based on amateur speculation.

 

[JnRyan]

I think the reasoning is that law enforcement is not going to tell the general public that Liberty German did not get a close enough video of the bridge guy. In this case, the sketches are based on the eyewitnesses for that reason and not on video. So law enforcement tells the public to look at how the man walks, his mannerisms, or listen to his voice. Maybe someone can recognize him that way?

Any more sketches will make law enforcement look like the boy that cried wolf. My conclusion is that I do not think they know that the man in the second eyewitness sketch has anything to do with the case of Abigail Williams and Liberty German. They just want to find him in order to include or exclude him from their investigation. Since there is not much more to discuss without any new information I think this case will slowly start to get quiet.

As much as I would like to believe the 2nd sketch is the killer, I have some nagging thoughts not unlike yours. Outside of what LE has given us, they know how they were murdered - and possibly the murder weapon - possible shoe prints and MAYBE the killer's DNA and probably not much more. (They have acknowledged, in a round about way, they have DNA, but I don't believe LE has identified for sure if they have the killer's DNA.) This 2nd sketch and possibly the mysterious vehicle left near the abandoned building may turn out to be just more potential witnesses and nothing more. Which, BTW, there doesn't seem to be much more said about that unknown vehicle.

 

[Torch Carrier]

LE is allowed to lie to the public. I think LE knows exactly who the killer is. DNA.

^^^^^ Yeah baby, hope you're right!!

 

[susiQ]

I wonder (since I don’t know) if the car they are interested in looks any way like what I saw on this video. I have some strange feeling about this scene (an attempted abduction of a minor in California).

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=358711974760199

I don't think it's related, but WOW, how freaky was that??? Very alert young girl. My heart would have been jumping out of my chest!! Frightening!

 

[sunshineray]

I knew I read about that somewhere - I just couldn’t remember exactly when they sent the evidence. Thanks for finding the article!

I wonder if there are lab protocols regarding the amount of evidence that can be submitted to the FBI at one time. It sounded like LE collected a lot from the scene and then more from subsequent search warrants. I’d imagine they’d prioritize submissions with evidence from the actual scene sent first then go from there.

Yes I would think that they had whatever DNA was found at the crime scene was tested fairly early on and then profiled to however well it could be profiled depending of course on it's quantity and quality.

What the Sheriff was speaking to in that article could have been samples from certain searches and/or individuals. It sounded like to me that the FBI testing mentioned could be the research type like Parabon Lab's researcher CeCe Moore used in the Tinsley case and in the Golden State.

Especially like in the Tinsley case where LE had very little DNA to work with. I just think that in the Delphi case, such research may have only been able to narrow it down to a family, not an individual. That's probably why it's taking so long to arrest the person responsible. AJMO

How Forensic Genealogy Is Cracking Decades-Old Cold Cases

 

[sunshineray]

The dark secret this person possesses will perpetually eat at their soul until they turn the information to LE. The only way to illuminate their heart(s) from this necrotizing blackness is to disclose what they know. If they choose not to do so, they are partially responsible for every future victim of BG’s and the devastation of all the victims families. Who would choose an eternity of damnation to protect such a monster?

Only logical answer I can think of is a parent. I'm not saying it's a right choice or a choice I myself would make but I think after all this time, it must be a parent.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I don't think it's related, but WOW, how freaky was that??? Very alert young girl. My heart would have been jumping out of my chest!! Frightening!

Yes. That was a smart little girl. Very frightening, especially how determined the guy in the car seemed to be to accost her.

 

[Eagle12]

Only logical answer I can think of is a parent. I'm not saying it's a right choice or a choice I myself would make but I think after all this time, it must be a parent.

Or a child who idolizes their parent and is afraid of legal consequences if they, themselves, had any sort of involvement, knowingly or unknowingly (lookout, arranged the bridge meet-up, planned driver, unplanned driver if a car broke down or keys were misplaced).
Just my thought...

Edited for clarification

 

[Imvp2]

Sadly, after reading more about the monster, Israel Keyes, I'm thinking more along the lines of copycatting.
I don't think he's local, but at some point researched the bridge and surrounding area extensively.
The choice of victims, the vulnerable
Perhaps looking at missing people in the six months leading up to Feb 2017 and six months after.
It's a needle in a haystack MOO

 

[Aydrianna523]

My money is on 3(a).

This crime doesn't seem personal. He killed two able bodied, reasonably mobile young girls in one brazen attack. That in and of itself is too risky for a killer who simply wanted to send a message to one girl, or her family.

Further, continuing on the above, this man was comfortable. Why? What made him so sure he could pull this off? I've been trained to control captives in a controlled environment (military detainees). Even then, I'd take certain precautions that simply aren't available in the open world (such as a battle buddy, pre-movement screening and restraint) scene these crimes were committed.

In my amateur opinion, this killer was comfortable in a very high risk situation.

I'd speculate that comfort can only come from experience, unless there is some major detail about this scene that hasn't been released relative to his ability to control the victims.

Barring that detail, the comfort displayed leads me to believe he has experience. Lots of experience.

I don't believe this was his first or will be his last. I'm hopeful his comfort will be his downfall in a future crime.

With his downfall, I'm hopeful that he (likely out of pride) will confess to other crimes he's been involved in - like the Delphi murders.

I'd liken this killer to Israel Keyes.

Disclosure: My opinion only based on amateur speculation.

Ty for your insight. Makes sense to me.

 

[tresir2012]

As much as you value your POI, I dont have much stock in it considering you (like everyone not personally involved in the police investigation) are invariably limited in both tools available (legal, general information, and technical) and case specific information.

I know people don't like to hear it, but a sketch isn't even evidence. Its unreliable at best, and inaccurate at worst.

Further, I'd rather not see an update than see another press conference out of desperation like April, 2019.

At this point, the public at large has given what they can. Memories have lapsed and recollection has faded

This case is going to be solved by one or more of few things:

1) Someone deciding to finally come forward and make a disclosure they hadn't previously made;

2) Law enforcement making a break through based on information they already have;

3) Assailant confessing to law enforcement or a third-party who subsequently reports the statement to law enforcement;

3a) Assailant being caught for another crime, and subsequently confessing to being the man commonly referred to as BG.

Public appeal has done it's job, and it very likely won't do anything else. Another update serves to satisfy the curious, but this case is more than a story that we need an ending to. It's an investigation of a double murder for two young girls, who deserve justice.

I don't care for an update unless they're announcing an arrest.

Well that goes for everyone on here as noone has a connection to the case. Also, 1, 2 or 3 could already have happened for all we know. When we get the update, just don't read it if you don't care for one. We will surely get one on anniversary 3 if not before. I do agree one thing, I would like the update to be an arrest too.

 

[Justice101]

As much as you value your POI, I dont have much stock in it considering you (like everyone not personally involved in the police investigation) are invariably limited in both tools available (legal, general information, and technical) and case specific information.

I know people don't like to hear it, but a sketch isn't even evidence. Its unreliable at best, and inaccurate at worst.

Further, I'd rather not see an update than see another press conference out of desperation like April, 2019.

At this point, the public at large has given what they can. Memories have lapsed and recollection has faded

This case is going to be solved by one or more of few things:

1) Someone deciding to finally come forward and make a disclosure they hadn't previously made;

2) Law enforcement making a break through based on information they already have;

3) Assailant confessing to law enforcement or a third-party who subsequently reports the statement to law enforcement;

3a) Assailant being caught for another crime, and subsequently confessing to being the man commonly referred to as BG.

Public appeal has done it's job, and it very likely won't do anything else. Another update serves to satisfy the curious, but this case is more than a story that we need an ending to. It's an investigation of a double murder for two young girls, who deserve justice.

I don't care for an update unless they're announcing an arrest.

VERY VERY WELL SAID!

 

[tresir2012]

Sadly, after reading more about the monster, Israel Keyes, I'm thinking more along the lines of copycatting.
I don't think he's local, but at some point researched the bridge and surrounding area extensively.
The choice of victims, the vulnerable
Perhaps looking at missing people in the six months leading up to Feb 2017 and six months after.
It's a needle in a haystack MOO

One missing girl locally is Karena McClerkin. I think she has a thread on here. Sadly, she does not get much coverage. That would be a good one for @grayhuze to cover if he hasn't done it already.

 

[almagata]

My money is on 3(a).

This crime doesn't seem personal. He killed two able bodied, reasonably mobile young girls in one brazen attack. That in and of itself is too risky for a killer who simply wanted to send a message to one girl, or her family.

Further, continuing on the above, this man was comfortable. Why? What made him so sure he could pull this off? I've been trained to control captives in a controlled environment (military detainees). Even then, I'd take certain precautions that simply aren't available in the open world (such as a battle buddy, pre-movement screening and restraint) scene these crimes were committed.

In my amateur opinion, this killer was comfortable in a very high risk situation.

I'd speculate that comfort can only come from experience, unless there is some major detail about this scene that hasn't been released relative to his ability to control the victims.

Barring that detail, the comfort displayed leads me to believe he has experience. Lots of experience.

I don't believe this was his first or will be his last. I'm hopeful his comfort will be his downfall in a future crime.

With his downfall, I'm hopeful that he (likely out of pride) will confess to other crimes he's been involved in - like the Delphi murders.

I'd liken this killer to Israel Keyes.

Disclosure: My opinion only based on amateur speculation.

I tend to agree that this crime was not personal.

It was a high risk attack. It was in broad daylight in an area that was somewhat of a public gathering place.

BG could never surveil the area enough to assure that there was not a fisherman on the creek or hikers that had gone onto one of the tributary trails on either side of the creek.

He got lucky that day.

There were quite a few people in the area, some saw him. To me that makes his attack irrational without much concern for self protection. Methodical killers like Israel Keyes, would have aborted any attack once they had encountered someone along the trail that was not their intended victim that could identify them.

BG was no criminal mastermind. He likely left little DNA behind because he was well covered during the attacks and perhaps used a weapon rather than his hands. Don't give this creep more credit than he deserves.

He targeted kids.

My guess is that he lost control of the situation when the girls took off running. One of the girls lost her shoe in the mud along south creek bank. He had to chase them down and probably caught them as they were climbing up the north river bank then ended up killing them quickly in a violent rage. Soon after he attacked them, Libby's phone rang alerting BG to the presence of the phone. Shortly thereafter, he started hearing people calling for the girls so he had to leave the area quickly.

He knew the area well enough to navigate an exit without being seen again as more people were arriving to search. He knew he could not be seen by searchers with wet muddy jeans. I think he was in a huge panic during his escape.

This is my opinion only based on the pieces of information that have been presented publicly.