Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

[No it's not]

If he says even on his first day it could imply that someone had a first day there. When I think of first day I think first day of a job.
I agree it is so mumbled it's difficult to make sense of any of it.

Wondering if he meant "on his first day" meaning the day of the murder. The day after the murder would be the second day and so on. Did BG possibly participate in the search..? On this first day..second day..etc.

ALL IMO

-Nin

 

[MntnHiker]

IMO only I think the killer is long gone from Delphi by now. I question if he was ever truly a local, as neither of the sketches nor the audio nor the (albeit blurry) photo or video has led to an arrest of anyone. The town isn't that big. You'd think that even if LE didn't have enough evidence to arrest someone they suspected, just be being online (not on WS as I know here it has to be backed by MSM but on YouTube videos, other sites, etc) you'd hear if there was a consensus to the person locals all thought it was if he was indeed someone local.

I am wondering if it's someone who was maybe on a temporary job in/near Delphi and perhaps Feb. 13 was his last day (or one of his last days) in the area. I think someone in this thread earlier posited that maybe the killer already knew he was leaving town the next day or something like that, and I tend to agree. If he was on a job there for a week, two weeks, even a month, he may have had time to get familiar with the MHB and the trail system and maybe decided to do this on that day because he knew he'd be long gone within 24 hours or so (or even less--maybe he killed them, immediately jumped in his car, and drove out of town).

All my own supposition but I just feel like if the perp was still in Delphi, we'd hear more suspicion from locals about "Hey that really looks like so and so." From what I know (and I may be incorrect), we don't really have that--not a consensus anyway. And perhaps this is the last/only crime like this he committed. He could be anywhere in the U.S. (or out of it) by now, feeling lucky he got away with it and just laying low, going about his own everyday life.

Besides a temporary job assignment, I'm curious what else might bring someone to Delphi for a short/temporary amount of time. A relative's funeral? Caring for a sick relative? I don't think he was only in Delphi for one day--maybe long enough to get a feel for the lay of the land and find out about these trails, but again MOO I feel like he was there temporarily. Or perhaps someone who had family nearby and would come into town occasionally to visit. It was a Monday, which means he could have taken a long weekend to visit someone and be departing on Monday.

 

[Falling Down]

IMO only I think the killer is long gone from Delphi by now. I question if he was ever truly a local, as neither of the sketches nor the audio nor the (albeit blurry) photo or video has led to an arrest of anyone. The town isn't that big. You'd think that even if LE didn't have enough evidence to arrest someone they suspected, just be being online (not on WS as I know here it has to be backed by MSM but on YouTube videos, other sites, etc) you'd hear if there was a consensus to the person locals all thought it was if he was indeed someone local.

I am wondering if it's someone who was maybe on a temporary job in/near Delphi and perhaps Feb. 13 was his last day (or one of his last days) in the area. I think someone in this thread earlier posited that maybe the killer already knew he was leaving town the next day or something like that, and I tend to agree. If he was on a job there for a week, two weeks, even a month, he may have had time to get familiar with the MHB and the trail system and maybe decided to do this on that day because he knew he'd be long gone within 24 hours or so (or even less--maybe he killed them, immediately jumped in his car, and drove out of town).

All my own supposition but I just feel like if the perp was still in Delphi, we'd hear more suspicion from locals about "Hey that really looks like so and so." From what I know (and I may be incorrect), we don't really have that--not a consensus anyway. And perhaps this is the last/only crime like this he committed. He could be anywhere in the U.S. (or out of it) by now, feeling lucky he got away with it and just laying low, going about his own everyday life.

Besides a temporary job assignment, I'm curious what else might bring someone to Delphi for a short/temporary amount of time. A relative's funeral? Caring for a sick relative? I don't think he was only in Delphi for one day--maybe long enough to get a feel for the lay of the land and find out about these trails, but again MOO I feel like he was there temporarily. Or perhaps someone who had family nearby and would come into town occasionally to visit. It was a Monday, which means he could have taken a long weekend to visit someone and be departing on Monday.

I'm a hiker, too, BTW, which is one big reason why I was drawn to this case early on.

Some facts of the case could have something to do with BG's lifestyle and occupation(s), I think a big one is this happened on would normally be a work day, during the middle of Winter. A Monday, now less. Does BG travel for work, and/or have "free time" on his hands while on the clock? Has he been to the area of the bridge before because he had time to burn while on the job? Does he know the bridge area from his past, and his current lifestyle and occupation just happens to have been conducive to him having the time to go out there that day?

Most public employees in IL had the day off from work, and some school districts in IN and IL burned snow days, that day.

There's been all manner of wild speculation about BG's identity, which has hurt the case. Then LE released a 2nd sketch last April. Yet I have yet to see in any forum, SM page, etc., someone state emphatically that they can identify BG, and can confirm their POI was at the bridge that day, and thus call it in to LE.

For me it boils down to A) Someone wondering about someone they know, and their possible involvement in this case, and B) Placing that individual at or near MHB on that day, at that time.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

I'm not so sure. 40 minutes went by from the time that the girls were dropped off until 2:07PM when Libby took that snapchat which did not show the killer in it. So the chance of him seeing them enter the park and then waiting 20-30 minutes until he started following them is slim. If he were there just to stalk for victims it seems more likely he would be waiting by the entrance. Doesn't make sense for him to walk the trail or wait in the surrounding trees until the right opportunity walks by.

Also the fact that it was on a Monday. Going to a trail that was not busy doesn't make sense unless he knew kids were out of school. But then my next question would be how popular the trail was for school kids?

I just don't see it as a planned killing. I think he probably knew the trail. Probably fantasized about doing something for a long time and then the opportunity presented itself. Without knowing the murder weapon it's hard to say but everything thus far makes me think it was purely a compulsive decision.

My take on a timeline is the girls were dropped off around 1:40, maybe a little before. At some point Libby took the two images which were uploaded to SC, both were uploaded shortly after 2. At some point thereafter BG got on to the bridge and started walking towards them, my guess would be they were almost to the SE end of the bridge when this happened. From the NW end of the bridge to the spot in Libby's video would be at least a 4 minute walk at an OK pace, considering the condition of the bridge.

From 1:40, which is when I believe BG saw them being dropped off, to, say, 2:15 is 35 minutes. Plenty of time to get his ducks in a row to carry out the crimes he ended up doing, and to start that ball rolling.

I'm of the opinion he saw them being dropped off, and I can imagine what he witnessed. Two juveniles dropped off at the parking area right off of C.R. 300, right by the trailhead for the Girard Trail, so they don't have a vehicle with them. Perfect for what he wanted to do, vs. an adult or adults parking a vehicle which would later be seen by witnesses, searchers, etc.

I'm also of the opinion that the murders would not have happened had BG not seen the girls dropped off, had he been, say, further back towards the Freedom Bridge/IN 25 when they were dropped off, he would not have seen them, and there would have been no vehicle in the parking area indicating someone or some people had arrived since the last time he checked. The girls would have been around the bend on the trail, out of sight of the drop off point, or close to or on the bridge, again out of sight range of the drop off.

I picture BG loitering that day, waiting for just the right time to strike, the right victim or victims to attack plays into this. No vehicle parked there, but two juveniles end up on the trail and he saw them being dropped off. He had this all planned out, but A&L were the perfect victims, I think. There would be no indication of where they could possibly be when they went missing, as they were juveniles and thus did not have a vehicle with them. The only indication they got to as far as the bridge area was when searchers shared Libby's SnapChat uploads that evening.

JMO

 

[Mike Britton]

I still can't reason with why the killer had to corner them on the bridge. There are so many other places even right there within the trail system. But what really bugs me is the fact that he killed them and left them there. It really makes me wonder if he was just on foot with no vehicle. Like someone who lives right there within a mile walking distance. 3 yrs. later and I just can't shake this thought.

Good observations and thinking outside the box. While there could be further evidence compelling LE to keep it on the radar, the car that's always discussed and debated ad nauseam is distracting to the case, MOO. The offender would have been, and probably was, more effective on foot. Given his knowledge that RL was not home, and his familiarity with Deer Creek, it's not unreasonable to suggest his family home is closer to the high bridge than people have been willing to consider.

 

[Hazelnutty]

My thoughts and prayers are still & again with Abby & Libby's families and friends as the 3 year anniversary of their murders close approaches.

I admire the members here @ Websleuths who keep Abby & Libbys unsolved murders in the forefront. Let us not forget!

Let us not forget those two beautiful , sweet , innocent little faces. These two girls had big & happy hopes and dreams. So much life ahead of them. Let us not forget their families who are waiting for answers.

Let justice come soon. Let today be the day.

 

[JDough]

Oh how I wish we could answer this:

Why Abby? Why Libby?

 

[gregjrichards]

Oh how I wish we could answer this:

Why Abby? Why Libby?

I personally think they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time unfortunately and unknowingly they were in the presence of an evil monster.

I wish we knew if it was a situation like the Closs case and whether or not he had seen one or both the girls around town before and decided to wait until the opportunity arose to attack and kill her or them both.

 

[Inthedetails]

Does BG travel for work, and/or have "free time" on his hands while on the clock? Has he been to the area of the bridge before because he had time to burn while on the job? Does he know the bridge area from his past, and his current lifestyle and occupation just happens to have been conducive to him having the time to go out there that day?

snipped by me

Yes - I think you're on the right track, or at least the same track I am on.

I think he's "local," not that he is from Delphi but that he is from the surrounding area, and I think he has a job where he could be in the park (or elsewhere outdoors) without it being unusual to a boss - but also not a job where every movement is tracked so he could be there without telling boss/coworkers, imo.

And, I have come to think that he lured one of the girls there - probably didn't expect two?

I hate we are having another anniversary with this crime unsolved.

jmo

 

[Awsi Dooger]

The only comment - in the process, someone’s life might be ruined. If that duo whose faces are all over the YouTube, just because someone reminds a video, are guilty, it is one thing. If they are innocent, in their place, I’d call a lawyer and do something about it.

Absolutely. That is the worst and most disgraceful aspect of the case currently. There are a group of people who can't let go of an insistence he has to be local, with the most severe definition of local, and they are determined to push that theme including hounding their suspect(s) throughout his life if police don't do anything themselves.

That group deserves to be strung up and dangled from the Delphi tower.

Month after month they take it to new absurdities, just because law enforcement isn't caving in toward their guy. Now the car is a red herring. Oh sure, Doug Carter and Tobe Leazenby just scream red herring. They can't express coherent thoughts but I can't think of two greater masters of slight of hand. I'm sure the John Walsh segment will be another parlor game.

Cases like this remain unsolved for basic reasons. It's not the guy down the street. And that video didn't give us anything identifiable, like a birthmark or a tattoo or even a corporate logo. He's not 7 feet tall to cut the playing field by 99.99%. It's stranger on stranger with everything generic. Cases like this become famous due to difficulty not ease.

 

[aust amateur slueth]

Wondering if he meant "on his first day" meaning the day of the murder. The day after the murder would be the second day and so on. Did BG possibly participate in the search..? On this first day..second day..etc.

ALL IMO

-Nin

could be first day of a job or first day in a group (eg preservation group). Or they know he had been there before.

 

[Ozoner]

Absolutely. That is the worst and most disgraceful aspect of the case currently. There are a group of people who can't let go of an insistence he has to be local, with the most severe definition of local, and they are determined to push that theme including hounding their suspect(s) throughout his life if police don't do anything themselves.

That group deserves to be strung up and dangled from the Delphi tower.

Month after month they take it to new absurdities, just because law enforcement isn't caving in toward their guy. Now the car is a red herring. Oh sure, Doug Carter and Tobe Leazenby just scream red herring. They can't express coherent thoughts but I can't think of two greater masters of slight of hand. I'm sure the John Walsh segment will be another parlor game.

Cases like this remain unsolved for basic reasons. It's not the guy down the street. And that video didn't give us anything identifiable, like a birthmark or a tattoo or even a corporate logo. He's not 7 feet tall to cut the playing field by 99.99%. It's stranger on stranger with everything generic. Cases like this become famous due to difficulty not ease.

What's surprising is that they haven't been able to connect BG to any other murders. Maybe there's nothing identifiable about his m.o.
-
LE has assumed that BG was familiar with the terrain. But what if the girls were running away, and the location of the murders is just where BG happened to catch them (a possibility suggested in the Scene of the Crime podcast)? That would mean that the girls determined the location⁠—that they were the ones familiar with the terrain (where to cross the creek, etc.).

 

[raja]

Coroner called to Delphi's Trailhead Park
Just got up but was uncertain if this has been posted yet.

 

[stattlich1]

LE clearly stated the killer is from Delphi, and/or visited Delphi.

Why would LE lie about that? What would lead one to think the killer was not a local, meaning, living in Delphi or at minimum close by and having connections to the town, business, employment, or otherwise? Where does the idea the killer was a drifter passing through come from? What LE/ISP evidence revealed such?

MOO, based on the video posted right up front on this thread, it appears to me two perps, maybe more, have been alluded to, by LE.

Where did two sketches come from? Why are they so different? Why does the old sketch actually look like the BG, and the new sketch does not?

This old boy's eyes are not as good as they used to be, but I know what I see.

 

[MntnHiker]

LE clearly stated the killer is from Delphi, and/or visited Delphi.

Why would LE lie about that? What would lead one to think the killer was not a local, meaning, living in Delphi or at minimum close by and having connections to the town, business, employment, or otherwise? Where does the idea the killer was a drifter passing through come from? What LE/ISP evidence revealed such?

MOO, based on the video posted right up front on this thread, it appears to me two perps, maybe more, have been alluded to, by LE.

Where did two sketches come from? Why are they so different? Why does the old sketch actually look like the BG, and the new sketch does not?

This old boy's eyes are not as good as they used to be, but I know what I see.

BBM I'm not sure if this was replying to what I said in my post, but I am agreeing with the second half of this--I think the killer did visit Delphi. Perhaps regularly, like I said, if he had family in the area and would occasionally visit. I don't personally think he lived in the town of Delphi regularly, and that's just my opinion, which I explained reasons for in my post. It doesn't mean I think that LE is lying. LE has been incorrect about things in other cases before--they have made educated inferences and just been off about things. It doesn't mean they were lying, but they are also not 100% correct all the time. No one is.

I also never said he was a drifter. I don't think someone coming into town for work that sends them there means they are a drifter.

 

[MysteryAlpaca]

I'm wildly speculating here and this is all JMO MOO

What if we have here something that happened spur of the moment? What if BG is a red herring. We have 2 teen girls walking around having fun. They are found near an area known to be where teens hang out. What if they come across people and they were mucking around etc. and something awful happened?

Or, BG was the older of a few teens who hung out. You know those creepy 20 odd year olds who like to hang out with younger teens? Often to do drugs or mess around. What if he encouraged the teens to do something to the girls and it got scary fast?

I don't know. This case is so infuriating. I wonder if we are all focusing in too much on BG being THE main player when maybe he wasn't.

 

[TL4S]

New article today.

Delphi faith community grows stronger 3 years after double homicide

 

[Inthedetails]

I'm wildly speculating here and this is all JMO MOO

What if we have here something that happened spur of the moment? What if BG is a red herring. We have 2 teen girls walking around having fun. They are found near an area known to be where teens hang out. What if they come across people and they were mucking around etc. and something awful happened?

Or, BG was the older of a few teens who hung out. You know those creepy 20 odd year olds who like to hang out with younger teens? Often to do drugs or mess around. What if he encouraged the teens to do something to the girls and it got scary fast?

I don't know. This case is so infuriating. I wonder if we are all focusing in too much on BG being THE main player when maybe he wasn't.

My hunch is that a younger person (like 20) wouldn't be able to pull of this incredible crime without getting caught.

To me, it looks like the work of a man older than that - someone who has harmed before, who knew the consequences of getting caught (that knowledge is a biggie, imo), and knew how not to get caught. And, unfortunately, a man who is attracted to teen girls and who has likely harmed girls/women in the past, but not necessarily arrested for it.

BG is someone in plain sight, imo - perhaps someone who lives a quiet but normal life. Someone you wouldn't suspect, but once you knew would say, "Oh, that makes sense." I don't think it's a Delphi resident, but nearby.

I don't know who it is, of course, but those are my speculations.

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

Coroner called to Delphi's Trailhead Park
Just got up but was uncertain if this has been posted yet.

From the link:

"Police said a person called 911 saying there was an unresponsive person on the ground outside a car."

If the coroner was then called, the person, I'm assuming, didn't make it.

If this is related to the upcoming anniversary of the murders, we'll hear about it, imo.

jmo

 

[raja]

From the link:

"Police said a person called 911 saying there was an unresponsive person on the ground outside a car."

If the coroner was then called, the person, I'm assuming, didn't make it.

If this is related to the upcoming anniversary of the murders, we'll hear about it, imo.

jmo

Yesterday was horrible weather. I can't imagine what someone would have been doing at the trail.