Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

[JnRyan]

She is the mother. And from what I understand, Libby loved her. TV has enough money to buy one more ticket.

I agree. But I don't believe it is the money budget, rather it is the time budget. If a reporter leaves Delphi and drives 2 hours over and 2 hours back that is half a work day. Why do that when they can spend a day in Delphi and interview her grandparents, her uncle and Abigail's mother and then the sheriff and the investigators. When time is important to the owners and management of TV stations the producers have to justify the time. One of my co-workers was the spouse of a TV reporter and when his producer wanted him to cover events in part of the viewing area that was over an hour away they were frequently denied by the station's management.

I believe Carrie is stepping out now and will probably seek out the reporters rather than wait for them to come to her. And if she finds out a news crew is going to be in Delphi, she just might take a trip. I hope we hear more from her.

 

[zencompass]

I agree. But I don't believe it is the money budget, rather it is the time budget. If a reporter leaves Delphi and drives 2 hours over and 2 hours back that is half a work day. Why do that when they can spend a day in Delphi and interview her grandparents, her uncle and Abigail's mother and then the sheriff and the investigators. When time is important to the owners and management of TV stations the producers have to justify the time. One of my co-workers was the spouse of a TV reporter and when his producer wanted him to cover events in part of the viewing area that was over an hour away they were frequently denied by the station's management.

I believe Carrie is stepping out now and will probably seek out the reporters rather than wait for them to come to her. And if she finds out a news crew is going to be in Delphi, she just might take a trip. I hope we hear more from her.

Dear @JnRyan,

Thank you for your insights on this!

We likely will hear more from Carrie on the John Walsh In Pursuit show.

 

[JDough]

Hey all. I wondered if I could ask a favor. There are sooo many posts and threads in the case, it's hard to navigate. We are working on one as well, the cold case Asenath Dukat who was killed in Upper Arlington, Ohio in 1980 (www.longwalkhomeua.com), there is also a thread for it on WS. Anyway, we have a suspect who was never convicted of the crime. The girl he is suspected of killing (amongst a host of nefarious activities to this day) was placed in a culvert, much like the Delphi girls were. We also believe he may have been in the area. So the favor, is there anyway to get a quick summary of what's known beyond the sketch, photo and voice? We know the bodies were in a culvert and a black Nike shoe was found first, is there anything else that we can use to pair with our case? Thank you all!

Hi @GoldenBear1. Thank you for checking out the Abby and Libby thread!

When you say "culvert", are you referring to an underground drain system? If so; Abby and Libby were not found in one. The were found on a steep incline, in a grove of trees.

Our awesome member @PommyMommy has done an incredible job of putting all MSM articles in chronological order on the media thread. This might be an extremely easy way to gather information very quickly for comparison. Top of page 44 would be a great place to start!
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

Sheriff's Office FB Page (Video/Audio of suspect may be found here)
Carroll County Sheriff's Office Indiana

Case Map:
Abigail Williams & Liberty German. Delphi, IN. 2/13/17 - Google My Maps

Podcasts:
‎Scene of the Crime: Delphi on Apple Podcasts
https://www.downthehillpodcast.com

Hope this helps!

 

[themissingandthelost]

Hi @GoldenBear1. Thank you for checking out the Abby and Libby thread!

When you say "culvert", are you referring to an underground drain system? If so; Abby and Libby were not found in one. The were found on a steep incline, in a grove of trees.

Our awesome member @PommyMommy has done an incredible job of putting all MSM articles in chronological order on the media thread. This might be an extremely easy way to gather information very quickly for comparison. Top of page 44 would be a great place to start!
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

Sheriff's Office FB Page (Video/Audio of suspect may be found here)
Carroll County Sheriff's Office Indiana

Case Map:
Abigail Williams & Liberty German. Delphi, IN. 2/13/17 - Google My Maps

Podcasts:
‎Scene of the Crime: Delphi on Apple Podcasts
https://www.downthehillpodcast.com

Hope this helps!

This is brilliant, the Down the Hill podcast is fantastic and the interviews with the girls' family are heartbreaking. Even listening to the old police chief's passion made me think that he's the kind of cop I want to be when I join my local police force.

 

[GoldenBear1]

Hi @GoldenBear1. Thank you for checking out the Abby and Libby thread!

When you say "culvert", are you referring to an underground drain system? If so; Abby and Libby were not found in one. The were found on a steep incline, in a grove of trees.

Our awesome member @PommyMommy has done an incredible job of putting all MSM articles in chronological order on the media thread. This might be an extremely easy way to gather information very quickly for comparison. Top of page 44 would be a great place to start!
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

Sheriff's Office FB Page (Video/Audio of suspect may be found here)
Carroll County Sheriff's Office Indiana

Case Map:
Abigail Williams & Liberty German. Delphi, IN. 2/13/17 - Google My Maps

Podcasts:
‎Scene of the Crime: Delphi on Apple Podcasts
https://www.downthehillpodcast.com

Hope this helps!

Thank you! I was listening to the "Down the Hill" Podcast and they said culvert and our heads went as you described it, a creek, with a draining system running under ground. Thank you for the info. It's amazing how little has been released by the police.

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

I'm at work, is it possible to get a small summary?

The interview is with Ives. He talks about three signatures, without of course saying what they are. I will re-listen to it this evening and post more specifics.

 

[PommyMommy]

Hi @GoldenBear1. Thank you for checking out the Abby and Libby thread!

When you say "culvert", are you referring to an underground drain system? If so; Abby and Libby were not found in one. The were found on a steep incline, in a grove of trees.

Our awesome member @PommyMommy has done an incredible job of putting all MSM articles in chronological order on the media thread. This might be an extremely easy way to gather information very quickly for comparison. Top of page 44 would be a great place to start!
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

Sheriff's Office FB Page (Video/Audio of suspect may be found here)
Carroll County Sheriff's Office Indiana

Case Map:
Abigail Williams & Liberty German. Delphi, IN. 2/13/17 - Google My Maps

Podcasts:
‎Scene of the Crime: Delphi on Apple Podcasts
https://www.downthehillpodcast.com

Hope this helps!

Thank you, @JDough, for giving me credit but it wasn't me! That was all @margarita25's work. MOO

IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

 

[holtzmann]

Side note, it really warms my heart to see some folks I bonded with over the last flood of info keeping the flame alive.

 

[No it's not]

After listening to part 5 - "Signature" - of the HLN podcast and with Tricia giving us permission to discuss it (Thank you!) , we can go back to the drawing board. Quite some more info in the podcast!

-Nin

 

[No it's not]

The podcast:

https://www.downthehillpodcast.com/

 

[holtzmann]

The podcast:

https://www.downthehillpodcast.com/

Listening now — thanks for the added link.

 

[Falling Down]

No one had any high powered flashlights ??
Highway/road work crews have access to huge lighting systems for nighttime work, any call out for help in lighting up the areas? Why not?

Where would they have set up the lights?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

After listening to part 5 - "Signature" - of the HLN podcast and with Tricia giving us permission to discuss it (Thank you!) , we can go back to the drawing board. Quite some more info in the podcast!

-Nin

Technically I'm not able to hear a podcast. I hope to learn something along the thread.

 

[303gmf]

Where would they have set up the lights?

In the search areas? Near the trails?

 

[JnRyan]

After listening to part 5 - "Signature" - of the HLN podcast and with Tricia giving us permission to discuss it (Thank you!) , we can go back to the drawing board. Quite some more info in the podcast!

-Nin

I had the same thought. I may have to listen to it again to fully appreciate it.

 

[Falling Down]

3 plus years of no arrest I believe calls for some criticism and re thinking what went wrong in the initial searches and investigation, surely you’ve read many other like minded thought

What were people supposed to do?

 

[TL4S]

I'm only 7 minutes into part 5 of the podcast, so maybe more will be addressed on this, but one thing stood out. Ives said (paraphrasing) that his hope was that if this person commits another crime and gets caught, he'd admit to the Delphi murders because there were odd things at the crimes scene and these people generally liked to talk about the horrible things they'd done.

 

[Falling Down]

You do seem to be criticizing the team's decisions as not being enough, jmo...

It stayed above freezing that night. Without evidence of foul play or injury, LE simply is not going to act immediately as if it is a factor. There is a process of escalating search efforts, just as with any group of law enforcement, e.g. you don't call out the whole fire station for every initial report of a fire.

Agreed, and I've seen accounts of where various searches through the decades yielded nothing the first or second or what have you go-around, then searchers finally find who they're looking for. It can happen in broad daylight and at night.

 

[JDough]

Thank you, @JDough, for giving me credit but it wasn't me! That was all @margarita25's work. MOO

IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

Ahh yes; thank you for the reminder! That's what I get for using bookmarks, and responding too quickly. My sincere apologies to the amazing @margarita25. Can't tell you how much I appreciate your hard work!

 

[Yemelyan]

The idea that there were at least 3 signatures at the crime scene is very interesting because a "signature," as far as I understand it, is not just a clue left behind. It is indicative of something the killer does in order to fulfil a psychological or an emotional need. So something like "he shot them with a gun" would not be a signature (not that I think that's what happened in this case) but something like "after he killed them he covered their faces" might be. IMO this information moves all the theories that deal with a motivation for gain (that girls were killed for revenge, to silence them because they witnessed or knew about a crime, etc) way, way, WAY down the list of possibilities.

I've said this from the beginning but I believe this is a BTK type killer. Not sure if he a serial killer or ever will be but I think the fantasy of the crime is extremely important to him. The killing itself provided the sexual release for him and the memory of it probably continues to.