Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

[rosesfromangels]

I asked myself this question.Libby was interested in criminology and her class had a lecture on it , a week or so before the murders.My hypnosis was that they were trying to “catch” an online predator.They felt safe being together, and were hoping to get a pic of him.When he arrived , he had to kill them both, but was only expecting one girl.

The last known (at least publicly known) photo of Abby on the bridge would refute this theory. She looked carefree vs. "on the case"

MOO

 

[minazoe]

BG went to school as a kid, maybe a bit of an outcast..maybe there are a couple of kids who knew him, hung out with him, quite possibly they picked up on something about him...

maybe someone with violent fantasies, ugly behavior or opinions regarding women,
awkwardness, meanness, evil and secret evil.

if you think this is someone you know, you must come out and tell .

even if you end up being wrong, you have to give the LE the option of taking a look at the person.

usually in hindsight there is a person who felt uncomfortable or had an experience that frightened them with the killer.

someone is going to tell on BG mOO

 

[minazoe]

BG went to school as a kid, maybe a bit of an outcast..maybe there are a couple of kids who knew him, hung out with him, quite possibly they picked up on something about him...

maybe someone with violent fantasies, ugly behavior or opinions regarding women,
awkwardness, meanness, evil and secret evil.

if you think this is someone you know, you must come out and tell .

even if you end up being wrong, you have to give the LE the option of taking a look at the person.

usually in hindsight there is a person who felt uncomfortable or had an experience that frightened them with the killer.

someone is going to tell on BG mOO

 

[Charlot123]

BG went to school as a kid, maybe a bit of an outcast..maybe there are a couple of kids who knew him, hung out with him, quite possibly they picked up on something about him...

maybe someone with violent fantasies, ugly behavior or opinions regarding women,
awkwardness, meanness, evil and secret evil.

if you think this is someone you know, you must come out and tell .

even if you end up being wrong, you have to give the LE the option of taking a look at the person.

usually in hindsight there is a person who felt uncomfortable or had an experience that frightened them with the killer.

someone is going to tell on BG mOO

Yes, most of the serial killers fall into six types, so one of them would fit.

Not sure he is a serial killer, though. And - once in a blue moon, the reason for the killer’s psychosis might be different. Recently, totally out of the blue, I remembered porphyria. A rare illness, more often missed than diagnosed, and creating severe psychosis, occasionally. Just an example. The BG may be a young incel, or an older man with undiagnosed physical and mental illness, that is very cyclical. Who knows?

 

[Yesiamapirate]

Midwesterner here (Michigan). Neither the use of "guys" nor "hill" seemed off to me. I'd say down the hill vs slope, embankment, etc.

Michigan here as well. I agree. I say " hey guys" to my granddaughters all the time. and any slope is a "hill". So...that might give some clues as to were he is from? Midwest? Or common in may places. Hard to say. MOO

 

[Pavelsky]

I asked myself this question.Libby was interested in criminology and her class had a lecture on it , a week or so before the murders.My hypnosis was that they were trying to “catch” an online predator.They felt safe being together, and were hoping to get a pic of him.When he arrived , he had to kill them both, but was only expecting one girl.

Interesting theory! If so, the police should be able to find an online presence of theirs to track back to. I was wondering about DNA..which I am sure they have some..and if they are applying that to different family genetic testing kits? This may have already been discussed so I apologize, new to this thread but not new to following the case as I have always hoped the killer would be identified. I did not expect this case to take so long to solve due to the picture, the voice, etc. So distressing to the family and much thanks to those LE that have been keeping this open and investigating leads.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I used to buy in to all sorts of fancy complicated profiles and psychological disorders that drive miscreants to be murderous. I think defense attorneys push this narrative to the benefit of their clients.

After 10 years on WS, and countless threads, I don’t believe that anymore. It just gets down to choosing evil. There are a very small percentage of criminals that are schizophrenic and truly aren’t competent. The vast majority are just evil.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[minazoe]

yeah , too organized to be a raving lunatic..he's more like some anti social creepo planning his little forays down in the basement with the dark web, police radios and magazines.

think this might be your adult child? Do you have a spouse or adult child who has forbidden you from certain rooms , garage, storage areas? does he have padlocks on things?
we need to get out there and educate people on the habits of anti social personalities and sex/ addicts.

some guy at the bar always talking about the s--t you can pull down off the dark web, some loser guy at the bar? is he a weirdo and talks about creepy stuff , brags about conquests who are younger girls?

let's start ratting out these weirdos, shall we? nothing wrong with calling in and saying something...saying you may have concerns.

mOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

yeah , too organized to be a raving lunatic..he's more like some anti social creepo planning his little forays down in the basement with the dark web, police radios and magazines.

think this might be your adult child? Do you have a spouse or adult child who has forbidden you from certain rooms , garage, storage areas? does he have padlocks on things?
we need to get out there and educate people on the habits of anti social personalities and sex/ addicts.

some guy at the bar always talking about the s--t you can pull down off the dark web, some loser guy at the bar? is he a weirdo and talks about creepy stuff , brags about conquests who are younger girls?

let's start ratting out these weirdos, shall we? nothing wrong with calling in and saying something...saying you may have concerns.

mOO

Best post on this thread. Yeah, let’s identify and rat these b@st@rds out. Guys, they will most likely boast to you. Time to start calling this stuff in. The next target could be your baby sister or daughter.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[minazoe]

Best post on this thread. Yeah, let’s identify and rat these b@st@rds out. Guys, they will most likely boast to you. Time to start calling this stuff in. The next target could be your baby sister or daughter.

amateur opinion and speculation

thanx dude , so flattered.

 

[Miya]

I used to buy in to all sorts of fancy complicated profiles and psychological disorders that drive miscreants to be murderous. I think defense attorneys push this narrative to the benefit of their clients.

After 10 years on WS, and countless threads, I don’t believe that anymore. It just gets down to choosing evil. There are a very small percentage of criminals that are schizophrenic and truly aren’t competent. The vast majority are just evil.

amateur opinion and speculation

Yep, I also don't believe in profiles and profilers anymore, I used to years ago, but they are only good for movies and they only ever solve crimes in movies. Most profiles are very similar as well. As far as serial killers go, like you said, apart from the few that are schizophrenic/psychotic, they are always psychopaths. Which means they have a different brain than the rest of us. They don't feel anything, they have no remorse, no compassion and they just kill because they are pure evil. And that's their only motive, that they are pure evil and just want to make people suffer and see them die.

Also, in my opinion, trying to find out what happened to them in their childhood means nothing. Whatever it was, a lot of people have horrible childhoods and never even steal gum at the grocery store. It's their psychopathic brain that makes them the way they are. And most of them who talk about their horrible childhoods are probably lying as well - a) because they are pathological liars and b) because they always want pity and compassion from other people and use sob stories to manipulate people. It usually makes me quite angry when I see profilers or forensic psychologists and psychiatrists listen to them and believe every word those monsters say about their horrible childhood and horrible life. They should know that it is most likely just a manipulative tactic instead of using it as a base to profile them and to profile future serial killers. They shouldn't let the monsters manipulate them, it's part of their job to know that that's what they are doing.

 

[somequestions]

Yep, I also don't believe in profiles and profilers anymore, I used to years ago, but they are only good for movies and they only ever solve crimes in movies. Most profiles are very similar as well. As far as serial killers go, like you said, apart from the few that are schizophrenic/psychotic, they are always psychopaths. Which means they have a different brain than the rest of us. They don't feel anything, they have no remorse, no compassion and they just kill because they are pure evil. And that's their only motive, that they are pure evil and just want to make people suffer and see them die.

Also, in my opinion, trying to find out what happened to them in their childhood means nothing. Whatever it was, a lot of people have horrible childhoods and never even steal gum at the grocery store. It's their psychopathic brain that makes them the way they are. And most of them who talk about their horrible childhoods are probably lying as well - a) because they are pathological liars and b) because they always want pity and compassion from other people and use sob stories to manipulate people. It usually makes me quite angry when I see profilers or forensic psychologists and psychiatrists listen to them and believe every word those monsters say about their horrible childhood and horrible life. They should know that it is most likely just a manipulative tactic instead of using it as a base to profile them and to profile future serial killers. They shouldn't let the monsters manipulate them, it's part of their job to know that that's what they are doing.

I agree that there is no definitive book for why criminals do what they do. I think some come from good "normal" families who have siblings that turn out ok. For some reason they do not. And then there are other people who come from bad childhoods who turn out to be very good people. Whatever the reason or motivation in this case, it does not make it ok to murder two innocent girls named Abigail Williams and Liberty German out on a walking trail.

Profiling takes place in order to help police narrow down a potential suspect. It is not perfect. Profilers provide their insight based on the case evidence. Unfortunately nothing has been released in this case regarding the crime scene evidence so coming up with a profile is very hard to do without guessing.

Using words such as monster or other labeling terms is wrong in my opinion. I have followed threads and read books about criminal profiling for many years too, but have come to a completely different opinion about crimes and the criminals that commit them. The one thing I have learned is that no one crime or criminal tends to be the same. And I think a good profilers job is to try and find those differences to help narrow the focus in an investigation. So if you are saying that CSI, NCIS, Criminal Minds, and all these other shows are not representative of real life criminal investigations, I would agree.

In my opinion, many criminals tend to be regular, everyday, ordinary people. This is only to suggest that it is important to look at the differences behind why people do what they do.

 

[Miya]

@somequestions

I was not talking about criminals in general, I was talking about serial killers. People who commit other crimes are not psychopaths in a lot of cases, not even everybody who kills someone is a psychopath. And I don't think there is anything wrong with calling serial killers monsters. There isn't even anything wrong with calling psychopaths monsters (and most of them never kill anyone)- I had a couple of them in my life and that is exactly what they are.

And I agree, it is important to look at the differences and why criminals do what they do, but not really when you are dealing with a psychopath. They will manipulate everyone around them and lie about everything and they will do this to psychologists, psychiatrists and profilers as well. The only thing that is important in those cases is to understand that they are psychopaths.

But yes, there is one thing that I would like to understand as well, like I said, most psychopaths never kill anyone (a lot of them commit all kinds of other crimes though), what is wrong with those who do? I still don't think you can blame bad childhood, etc. for it, it's probably more about the brain and the differences between psychopaths and their brains that turns some into serial killers. Maybe it's like a spectrum. MOO.

 

[Ozoner]

Yep, I also don't believe in profiles and profilers anymore, I used to years ago, but they are only good for movies and they only ever solve crimes in movies. Most profiles are very similar as well. As far as serial killers go, like you said, apart from the few that are schizophrenic/psychotic, they are always psychopaths. Which means they have a different brain than the rest of us. They don't feel anything, they have no remorse, no compassion and they just kill because they are pure evil. And that's their only motive, that they are pure evil and just want to make people suffer and see them die.

Also, in my opinion, trying to find out what happened to them in their childhood means nothing. Whatever it was, a lot of people have horrible childhoods and never even steal gum at the grocery store. It's their psychopathic brain that makes them the way they are. And most of them who talk about their horrible childhoods are probably lying as well - a) because they are pathological liars and b) because they always want pity and compassion from other people and use sob stories to manipulate people. It usually makes me quite angry when I see profilers or forensic psychologists and psychiatrists listen to them and believe every word those monsters say about their horrible childhood and horrible life. They should know that it is most likely just a manipulative tactic instead of using it as a base to profile them and to profile future serial killers. They shouldn't let the monsters manipulate them, it's part of their job to know that that's what they are doing.

Your comments tell me that you don't actually understand how profiling works. Profiling has been useful in many cases. One of the first steps is classifying the offender as organized or disorganized. It has nothing to do with blaming mental illness or childhood trauma for criminal behavior. It is about narrowing the focus of an investigation in order to more quickly identify a suspect.
-
ETA: A professional would rely heavily on crime-scene photos in order to develop a profile. So far as I know, no one here has seen crime scene photos. The speculating that people are doing here doesn't really count as profiling.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I would like to know, whether a killer/serial killer is speaking of himself - as long as he isn't caught and nobody knows about his deed - as a "killer", "serial killer", "murderer". Or whether he names the not caught perp (who is himself) by a more distanced name like "monster", when in a conversation about a murder/a case with someone. What would killers do? What would profilers think, they do?

 

[TL4S]

I agree that there is no definitive book for why criminals do what they do. I think some come from good "normal" families who have siblings that turn out ok. For some reason they do not. And then there are other people who come from bad childhoods who turn out to be very good people. Whatever the reason or motivation in this case, it does not make it ok to murder two innocent girls named Abigail Williams and Liberty German out on a walking trail.

Profiling takes place in order to help police narrow down a potential suspect. It is not perfect. Profilers provide their insight based on the case evidence. Unfortunately nothing has been released in this case regarding the crime scene evidence so coming up with a profile is very hard to do without guessing.

Using words such as monster or other labeling terms is wrong in my opinion. I have followed threads and read books about criminal profiling for many years too, but have come to a completely different opinion about crimes and the criminals that commit them. The one thing I have learned is that no one crime or criminal tends to be the same. And I think a good profilers job is to try and find those differences to help narrow the focus in an investigation. So if you are saying that CSI, NCIS, Criminal Minds, and all these other shows are not representative of real life criminal investigations, I would agree.

In my opinion, many criminals tend to be regular, everyday, ordinary people. This is only to suggest that it is important to look at the differences behind why people do what they do.

I'll admit, I've never been comfortable with any attempts to profile BG. IMO, we don't have nearly enough information for that. I do, however, think in those moments just prior to and during the murders, he was a monster. He behaved like a monster, anyway.

I also don't think the FBI would waste their time with profiling if it had no use. As you said, they are simply narrowing down the search field. It's never been regarded as an exact science, but in complex cases like this one, the profile serves as another tool. I don't know. I think of behavioral analysis as being similar to meteorology. It's about patterns and predictions. It's not definitive. JMO

 

[TL4S]

I would like to know, whether a killer/serial killer is speaking of himself - as long as he isn't caught and nobody knows about his deed - as a "killer", "serial killer", "murderer". Or whether he names the not caught perp (who is himself) by a more distanced name like "monster", when in a conversation about a murder/a case with someone. What would killers do? What would profilers think, they do?

That's a really interesting question that I hadn't considered before. If he talks about the case with people (not wanting them to know he's the guilty one) how would he label himself? I think he'd say, "the guy."

 

[jillybean51]

The last known (at least publicly known) photo of Abby on the bridge would refute this theory. She looked carefree vs. "on the case"

MOO

Unless Abby was being “ the bait”.

 

[pearl]

As for profiling, I think it is a two-pronged effort. There is the profile that is released to the public in some cases which many times tends to be generic. Then there is the profile given to LE based on what was observed at the crime scene as it was discovered. This would be much more detailed in nature and would give info about the killer based on things he/she did or did not do, etc. Profilers, in their training, study information collected about serial killers. Yes, some of this info does come from the SK themselves. A seasoned investigative profiler would most probably be able to spot BS when he/she hears it. Tales of a horrible childhood are self-serving because I have never heard of a SK being treated any less than he/she should be because of a bad childhood experience.

 

[carbuff]

That's a really interesting question that I hadn't considered before. If he talks about the case with people (not wanting them to know he's the guilty one) how would he label himself? I think he'd say, "the guy."

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree.

He might be the kind to insert himself into conversations and searches and vigils and such, but I think it's more likely he sits and nods over his beer while others expound.