Right, but they have to be arrested first.
Points well taken, & I recall you making them before; I guess there’s some intuition I have about RL but guess it’s off-base so not productive.
Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #125
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Points well taken, & I recall you making them before; I guess there’s some intuition I have about RL but guess it’s off-base so not productive.
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LE have been criticized at times for arrests made during the course of this investigation. Some felt, for example a person who had an outstanding arrest warrant might be reluctant to contact LE with a tip. LE made a statement clarifying (my recollect) they had no option but to arrest any persons known to be breaking the law. Especially because there were likely witnesses when RL had a couple beers at the pizza joint, which I recall occurred a few days after the murders, for all we know somebody reported him illegally driving.
I’m certain RL or anyone associated to him have already been investigated up, down and centre. He was the #1 talked-about online suspect in the early days of this crime until LE formally announced otherwise. It didn’t help that he wore a blue jacket during one of his media interviews.
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Respectfully snipped and BBM
Doy! Good grief! I know there is nothing to laugh about here, but.....
I know they have looked at the home owner and dismissed him. But who knew about his schedule that day....that he would be out? Who knew he was going to the dump. Was the pizza stop random or preplanned? Did he meet anyone there?
Amateur opinion and speculation
D
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What was the matter with RL buying an ornamental fish somewhere? 13th or 14th?
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I could be completely wrong about everything I wrote too.
If an arrest is made and the killer ends up looking at least somewhat like the second sketch, is between the ages of 18-40 when the crime was committed, and lives in Delphi, Indiana or one of the surrounding counties, I am going to feel rather foolish. But you cannot deny hard evidence like fingerprints or DNA evidence so if that ends up being the case then LE must be correct. I only think that after this long I am not wrong about what I think concerning the direction of the investigation. That is my opinion.
It was understandable to think the killer was probably a younger man who was a local, at the beginning. You cannot really fault LE for thinking that way. In most cases, I think this sort of a profile would be correct.
But if LE is wrong after all this time, the killer has to be thinking he got away with it. I think the killer will lay low for a while and probably not choose to kill again in the Indiana or Iowa areas. Why give LE a chance to "correct" their mistake if some eyewitness is able to thoroughly identify and give a good physical description the next time? Or maybe since it has been almost 3 1/2 years the killer is dead? You just don't know.
LE has to try to protect the integrity of the investigation. They collect all the evidence, in the hope that someday it might be needed in a court room. All you can do is wait.
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The sketches have certainly been confusing. As best as I understand, LE has instructed us to abandon the first sketch in favor of the 2nd? Or consider both, or? I have no idea where they currently stand on those sketches. Is this a Perp team? So confusing.
The "down the hill" voice, while a very short clip, sounds like a mature, older voice. To me, mid 30's to mid 40's. The fuzzy photo looks like an older guy to me as well; scrawny legs and portly gut. Of course the "gut" could be gear under the jacket.
The fact he didn't clue in to the phone suggests someone certainly not aware of technology. I love the fact he got outsmarted by a little kid.
We just need to keep looking under rocks where this snake has slithered.
Amateur opinion and speculation
carbuff
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I think I've mentioned before that I'm partially face-blind, which means that I have trouble recognizing people just from their faces. Even people I know if they're in a different context. So anything I say about sketches and matching and so forth is questionable at best.
But to me, the different sketches don't look drastically different. The last one looks like a younger version of the first one, and the first one looks like it could be the guy in the video. I can see the possibility they're different people, but it's not obvious to me.
The walk is the thing that stands out to me. That odd hitch to his stride.
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The pizza place wasn’t on the day of the murders iirc, it was a few days later. Considering the location of RL’s house from the crime scene I don’t think it mattered to the killer who owned the property along the river. We also don’t know if that was a preplanned murder site or if the girls ran across the river in an attempt to flee.
I think other people walking on the High Bridge trail after the killer crossed it would be much more likely to have heard any sounds of a murder occurring. The same question could be asked - how could he know nobody was out walking it a few minutes behind him? This is one reason why I’ve always believed it was likely his vehicle was parked under the bridge therefore he didn’t walk back across the length of it. JMO
If I remember correctly, RL was not the only person arrested by LE as a result of this investigation early on. Probably because the murders happened on his property his arrest by name happened. I do remember it being asked of LE about others being arrested and LE (ISP Sgt Riley? Sheriff Leazenby?) stating that if they come across someone who has committed a crime or has a warrant they are obligated to arrest that person. I've often wondered if that doesn't hamper the effort. That is, someone suspects a person is the killer, but because they have a meth lab or they are growing weed in their shed out back they don't want to be on LE's radar. And this person doesn't call on the chance that their suspicion is wrong and they get arrested instead. Of course, we've got over 50K in tips so maybe that didn't happen. But I've still wondered if someone 2 or 3 counties over got a call from a partner in crime on 13 Feb 2017 saying '...can't make it today, something came up how about tomorrow?' And he resembles the 2nd sketch.
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From what Kelsi says here, it seems she believes that BG attacked Libby first, that Abby had a chance to run, but chose to stay and help Libby fight BG.
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Although LE has never said where and when these sightings were made, they have confirmed the sketches are of two different people.
“The Indiana State Police is now clarifying why the first sketch of the person of interest in the mysterious Delphi double murder looks so different from the man in the new suspect sketch released this week: they are two different people.”
Delphi girls' double murder: Police explain mysterious change in person of interest sketch
****
As for the lurch in the stride, that appears to be caused by the looping of the video snip of him taking only two steps. I don’t think it’d be possible to take a video of any person taking two steps, play it back to back and create an appearance of them smoothly walking along. The reason for that is possibly Libby only captured him on video at a distance for a couple of seconds. I recall her grandmother speculating she held the cellphone behind her back, using a swiping motion so it wasn’t noticed by him that he was the target of her video.
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carbuff
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Yeah I know all that. I've been here since the beginning.
I'm just saying I won't be surprised if they're mistaken, that's all.
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Perhaps the sightings and locations occurred around the same time so that why LE can confirm its two different people?
I agree with you. I once read an article that said people in general would be willing to be cooperative and helpful to police, IF ONLY they didn’t have their little things to worry about ( unpaid tickets, stash of marijuana, old warrant, etc.).
LE at press conferences urged people not to be afraid to speak up about BG if they knew him, but feared his revenge. But what if that’s not what they’re fearing? What if they’re fearful of LE itself??
I think you make a very good case as to why someone may be keeping silent.
You bring up some very good points, Rose. I think one of the major reasons this case remains unsolved (haven't received that one tip), is because of the inconsistencies reported to the public. Having to correct statements (dates, times, vehicles, sketches, etc), leads folks to lose trust in the LE agencies involved in the investigation. Conflicting statements (2 perpetrators or one, planned or unplanned, chance encounter or he knew the girls would be there, etc), cause uncertainty for the public.
Just listening to or reading transcripts for the podcasts makes me realize how likely it is that investigators may differ on their opinions. If there is truly dissension amongst them, this case may never be solved (at least until some of them leave or retire). The biggest fail on their part was releasing the second sketch so long after the first. Why did they wait so long? Was the crime scene so horrific that investigators determined a younger person just couldn't be capable? Why not just release them both at the same time? Me thinks their investigation was focused on one (older) person early-on. Releasing the second sketch and changing the course of the investigation leads me to believe there may have been some shouting going on behind closed doors. I think they disagreed about which sketch should have been released first. And now they are backtracking and confusing the public as a result.
The sketches in this case and their difference in appearance to each other do not bother me at all. I always figure that except in unusual circumstances, sketches are not going to resemble actual offenders very closely.
Not photographs: The misunderstood police composite sketch | In the Dark | APM Reports
This article talks about police composite sketches and goes a bit behind the typical "sketches are not photographs."
Takeaways include...sketches are most often intended to be used to rule people out, not in.
It's common to have two or more sketches of the same suspect that don't resemble each other at all.
Sketch artists use a highly abstract process. They may purposely emphasize particular features (buck teeth, large nose etc) so that the feature jogs the memory of a person with information (what I gather from that is one reason sketches are never going to look identical to how suspects look in real life, along with the facts that memory is inherently unreliable AND that the process of creating a sketch in and of itself makes the witness less reliable when called upon to remember details of the person's face).
Finally, some sketch artists create their drawings by asking witnesses to look through mugshots and pick out individuals that resemble who they saw. I don't know enough about this process to know if the mugshots are obtained randomly or selected by police to represent who investigators believe are likely matches. If the latter, you can see how a bias might creep in.
Not photographs: The misunderstood police composite sketch | In the Dark | APM Reports
This article talks about police composite sketches and goes a bit behind the typical "sketches are not photographs."
Takeaways include...sketches are most often intended to be used to rule people out, not in.
It's common to have two or more sketches of the same suspect that don't resemble each other at all.
Sketch artists use a highly abstract process. They may purposely emphasize particular features (buck teeth, large nose etc) so that the feature jogs the memory of a person with information (what I gather from that is one reason sketches are never going to look identical to how suspects look in real life, along with the facts that memory is inherently unreliable AND that the process of creating a sketch in and of itself makes the witness less reliable when called upon to remember details of the person's face).
Finally, some sketch artists create their drawings by asking witnesses to look through mugshots and pick out individuals that resemble who they saw. I don't know enough about this process to know if the mugshots are obtained randomly or selected by police to represent who investigators believe are likely matches. If the latter, you can see how a bias might creep in.
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In regards to the two sketches—the following differences are noted in the podcasts.
Date sketch was released:
#1 - 07/17/2017
#2 - 04/22/2019
Date sketch was drawn:
#1 - months after the murders and over the course of a month
#2 - 02/17/2017
Sketch Artist:
#1 - an FBI sketch artist
#2 - ISP Master Trooper Taylor Bryant
Info Artist Used to Create Sketch:
#1 - composite drawing based on the descriptions given by at least 2 witnesses (one is believed to be Dan McCain and another is believed to be a woman who reported seeing the man walking near Delphi around the time of the murders—the woman didn’t come forward until months later)
#2 - based on a single witness who saw something on February 13th that she felt needed to be reported (it’s not known if she saw something on the trails or elsewhere)
Physical Description:
#1 - reddish brown hair; unknown eye color; white male between 5’6” and 5’10”; 180-220 pounds; hat may not be accurate
#2 - white male between 180-200 pounds; Carter said the man was between 18-40 and may appear younger than his true age; the FBI says the man is in his mid-20s to mid-30s
Sketch Depicts:
#1 - broad face; bulbous nose; hooded eyes; goatee and mustache
#2 - thin face; pointy nose; thin lips; curly hair; clean shaven
Date sketch was released:
#1 - 07/17/2017
#2 - 04/22/2019
Date sketch was drawn:
#1 - months after the murders and over the course of a month
#2 - 02/17/2017
Sketch Artist:
#1 - an FBI sketch artist
#2 - ISP Master Trooper Taylor Bryant
Info Artist Used to Create Sketch:
#1 - composite drawing based on the descriptions given by at least 2 witnesses (one is believed to be Dan McCain and another is believed to be a woman who reported seeing the man walking near Delphi around the time of the murders—the woman didn’t come forward until months later)
#2 - based on a single witness who saw something on February 13th that she felt needed to be reported (it’s not known if she saw something on the trails or elsewhere)
Physical Description:
#1 - reddish brown hair; unknown eye color; white male between 5’6” and 5’10”; 180-220 pounds; hat may not be accurate
#2 - white male between 180-200 pounds; Carter said the man was between 18-40 and may appear younger than his true age; the FBI says the man is in his mid-20s to mid-30s
Sketch Depicts:
#1 - broad face; bulbous nose; hooded eyes; goatee and mustache
#2 - thin face; pointy nose; thin lips; curly hair; clean shaven
I believe we are supposed to forget about the first sketch completely? I think lol. One thing that confuses me that I keep forget to mention is that by all accounts BG was wearing some kind of covering over his head at various points when witnesses saw him. So why does the sketch show him as having curly hair? Also, according to some accounts, one or several people saw him after the crime leaving via the main entrance area. Would this be safest route if that 'abandoned' vehicle actually was his mode of transportation? I learned something else new from that recent amazing transcription someone here did that a witness recalls seeing a man leaving via the cemetery at some point, wonder what time though? I would think if that was his vehicle or even for a shorter route that that way would be a much better exit place. So why did witnesses seem to see him leave the longer and more visible route? Kinda perplexing for me, both those things re. the hair description and exit route.
D
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10 Baffling Wives of Serial Killers
10 Baffling Wives of Serial Killers - Listverse
Until her husband, Gary Ridgeway, confessed two years after his arrest, Judith Mawson refused to believe he had killed 70 people and was the person authorities had nicknamed the Green River Serial Killer. Indeed, they were happily married for 13 years, and she even told reporters that “he made me smile every day” and was the “perfect husband.”
10 Baffling Wives of Serial Killers - Listverse
Until her husband, Gary Ridgeway, confessed two years after his arrest, Judith Mawson refused to believe he had killed 70 people and was the person authorities had nicknamed the Green River Serial Killer. Indeed, they were happily married for 13 years, and she even told reporters that “he made me smile every day” and was the “perfect husband.”
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As a Canadian it’s totally bizarre to me how much blabbing individual members of LE have done on their own since the beginning of this case, from FB interviews to bloggers to media interviews. Where I live only official statements through press conferences or press releases are issued, very rarely are LE privately interviewed.
I agree with you, it’s really difficult to know if some of the information stated is personal opinion or the consensus of the Task Force. During the last press conference, Carter’s dramatic presentation is also an example of how mis-information can be provided due to somebody not following a scripted official release, vetted for accuracy. I have concerns about the effect of the high attention devoted to LE whenever they individually speak out. I’m reminded of the public yearning for inside information and details much the same way as interest is placed on the lives of rich and famous celebrities especially if scandal is involved.
IMO the Task Force should issue a Fact Sheet to clarify whatever information they choose to reveal, involving absolutely no speculation or innuendo. If they don’t know something they should just say so. If they choose not to address certain details to protect the integrity of the investigation, they can state that too.
For example,
- this blue eye thing. Are we to believe the killer does not have blue eyes or just the person depicted in sketch #1.
- What exactly does 18 to 40 years of age, may look younger mean? May look 18 to 40 but actual age is older? Or actual age is 18 to 40 but looks younger?
- Leazenby recently stated both men are considered POIs who police would like to talk to. Is this to say the killer might not resemble either sketch and what that’s about, that he might look like half way in-between?
- If more than one person was involved, is there reason to believe there’s any connection between the two different people in the sketches?
- The request abut the driver of the car parked at the abandoned welfare bldg lot from noon to 5pm. Was the suspect believed to be the driver of this vehicle or did LE just want to talk to somebody they had no other way of contacting.
- there’s more I’m sure......
But even these examples might convince somebody a tip on a possible suspect who they know just isn’t warranted - (whew,it can’t be him!) Especially if it’s a family member whom the tipster doesn’t want to believe could ever be responsible for the murder of two innocent teens. I’d imagine it’s easy to send in a tip on a stranger, much more difficult if it’s someone who’s involved in our day-to-day lives. JMO
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